Struggling With a Decision...

I am really struggling right now to make a decision that is best for my family and myself...and I appreciate any feedback.



This past year I began a program of graduate studies at our local U....one of the driving factors was receving Stafford Loans...my husband wasn't yet able to moonlight and the money afforded my kids the opportunity to go to preschool...which I think was important at least for my pre-kindergartener. I found myself increasingly unhappy in our department though due to a variety of factors which included not being taken seriously because I am a Mom. I struggled daily with feelings of guilt at not being home with my children. I was only gone from 9-12 or 9-1 on most days...some days less and some days more....But come the fall semester I will have to seriously invest time and brain power into my research and I don't know that I am willing right now to do that. My children are 5,4, and 17 months. I told my profs that I will be in to do my research from 9-1 and on the occasional weekend/evening, so they don't expect me to invest 24 hours a day...but I am feeling so ambivalent about it and fearful and I don't know why...



Well, I do know the reason for some of my doubts....My son starts Kindergarten in the Fall....and my daughter is 1 year from Kindergarten. I feel that she drew the "short-end -of the stick...because she never received the attention that my oldest did and my youngest does. She came along when my oldest was just 15 months old and we moved from Northern Ireland to the US when she was 5 weeks old....nothing but stress for me and I feel like I owe her this year...my son would be in Kindergarten and so she could be the "oldest" at home. It would give her more "special time" with me....Of course, it would deny her the ability to go to a pre-k program...which might be of a greater benefit to her?

I took a Distance Ed course this summer and found that I really, really enjoyed the flexibility of being able to review notes, etc when I wanted and not being tied to finding a sitter to head to class, park, listen to a boring lecture and come back home...I did really well in it.



The University where I took my course has a distance Ed MS program in Microbiology that I could potentially switch to...and I am left wondering right now if I should...It is a non-thesis Masters and I am currently in a thesis program.....and I know that makes a difference...but I am left really trying to decide what is best for my children and best for me....



Last year, my baby was still little enough that he usually napped almost the entire time that I was gone...and I had reliable childcare providers who came to my home so that he was in his own environment...but he is older now and doesn't nap very much anymore....so he would miss me ... and I would miss seeing him.....My children went to preschool and loved it....do I take that from my daughter? On the other hand....she will be able to go to school for the next 13 yars of her life....maybe this one last year with MOM could be a real turning point for my little mischevious one.



Does it really matter whether I get a degree right now? I just don't know anymore. I felt so sure of myself before I had children...in terms of my career goals and desires for my life and now things are just completely upside-down. I feel selfish for putting my needs first by going to school...but I honestly feel quite bored at home much of the time...even though I really don't want to. These years are just flying by and I will have time to work or go back to school...I do want to enjoy it...



Does anyone have any thoughts for me or have you shared a similar experience?



Sincerely,



Kristen

Do what is best for your family. Don't feel like a failure for making personal sacrifices (career goals)for your husband and children, especially your children. This may sound old fashioned, but its true. Just like the women of twenty years ago who felt scorned for taking on work when it was the best thing for them and theirs, women today often feel scorned for letting go of careers and degrees, even temporarily, for their childrens' sakes. Best of luck to you in your difficult time.

I too think it has to be a family decision. If you think you can make it work than that would be great. Will it be all day Kindergarten? Our kindergartener to be will just go 1/2 a day. I am about 3 semesters away from an accounting degree. The desire for it is just not in me at this time. I don't really know if I'll ever finish. More power to you in in your decision ~ Devera

Thanks for your feedback. You have all given me some good things to think about. I still don't know what I will decide, but I have the summer to think about it.



I know that my children will only be small for a short time and I struggle with feelings of guilt for wanting to do something before they are in school.



I am sure that our moving so much has something to do with it. We have moved 3 times in the last 5 years. (Each of my children was born in a different Country!) It has just made it hard for us to make/hold onto friends. The result is that we don't know many people. I have a strong desire to talk to grown-ups, ya know? Without friends and family around I find it frustrating to sit at home....even though my children are of course wonderful .



Sincerely,



Kristen

When my husband and I married, we were still in college. He and I were both pre-med, I was doing better than he in our mutual major (biology). Then, I got pregnant - and we were happy about it. But, I had to make a decision. I am very glad that my mom taught me I can be whatever I want to be, because I have always had a long list of things I want to be and do. I could never completely decide on one thing because I wanted everything. I decided that (God willing) my life has about 6 or 7 more decades to go. I will not be raising kids for more than a third of that. Well, what am I going to do for those 40 or 50 years afterwards - sit on my can or garden all day? No! I view my stay-at-home mom job as my current "career". I am a manager, child psychologist, chef, nurse, interior decorator, plumber, and sometimes referee. That's a lot of jobs for the moment! When those jobs have run their course, I will probably get my degrees in astrophysics, mechanical engineering, and architecture since those are my loves. Just like any career, I have days that remind me why I chose this path that make me feel confident and happy. I also have days when I think, "Why did I ever decide to do this!" I would rather think of my life as a progression rather than try to do it all at the same time. Life doesn't end at 40. Besides, Mary Cury, Mother Teresa, and Margaret Thatcher were no spring chickens!

Jennifer

Kristen,

I'm working outside the home right now and know all about the sort of guilt you mention. It's almost impossible to balance the two sides of yourself: the mom wanting to be the best for the kids, and the individual wanting to fulfill your sense of what you could do outside the home. Working or going to school makes you feel obligated to two different masters at once: the kids' needs, and the demands at school/work to prove you're serious and competent. It drives me crazy sometimes! But when I was staying home I felt I was letting myself down. It's true you'll have years after the kids are grown, but if you're thinking about joining the job force at 45 with no experience you'll find it difficult. This is harsh but true.

A lot depends on your kids' temperament. My son is thriving in preschool (he's been in day care since he was 3 months) and would be frustrated and bored at home all day with me. The teachers are professionals and don't have to take on any other responsibilities like making dinner, cleaning, etc - all their energy is centered on teaching and playing with the kids, and he likes that. But other kids may crave more home time. I know my son is pretty exhausted at the end of the week. You're the one who knows their needs best - but don't forget your needs! We all tend to think of ourselves as selfish for thinking of what we need, but no one is going to be selfish for us. Especially since our spouses are gone so much. If you're not happy staying home, it won't do anyone much good. And if you don't feel like going in to class/lab, that won;t do much good either.

btw, it sounds like you're doing a science degree? I'm a neuroscientist, doing research into Parkinson's and Huntington's disease in a clinical setting. I'd love to hear about your studies! Feel free to email me at kseagle@yahoo.com

Kaaren

I agree that you must decide to do what is best for all of you--yourself as well as your children--a cranky Mom is no fun to be around, and you really CAN have it all if you are well organized, and the kids are happy going to school. Ahead of time you have to assess the stress levels and how you will cope with stress when papers are due, children are sick, hubby comes home late and irritable and tired, etc. Just decide what you really want and need, and if it will work for all of you at this point in time. Of course, Hubby will have to be supportive of the idea, too.--but in the end, you must decide how much you can tolerate stress-wise, and if it is worth the turmoil. You can do it--you have cone so far, and are close to the "finish line" already. I know it's a tough decision, and whatever you decide, it will be right for you at the time--so have no regrets or guilt!!!

Kaaren,



I am doing an MS right now in Molecular Genetics and Microbiology...I started out in the Neuro lab last year doing Alzheimer's research but the funding was up in the air and the project needed some post-docs...I ended up switching labs and am now doing my research (when I get back to it that is!) on carbonic anhydrase and enzyme kinetics.



I am not sure of what my overall career goals are right now. What bothers me about science is the whole politics in the lab thing...and funding mess, etc.



I think that I really have to go back to the University in the Fall ... I have to have the lab experience if I want to be able to work in the field or go on to get my PhD someday. It is tough to find a balance with family and school/lab. My husband is of the mindset right now that it "takes two people to make one physician"...we won't even GO THERE! This is adding to my stress at school. I have to really work to find time to be able to crack open the books.



What sort of work are you doing right now with Parkinsons? Are you working in Industry or a University lab? What kind of a degree do you have right now? Do you enjoy your work? Well, as you see, I have many questions for you!!! . It is nice to meet another science person!



Kris

Kristen - that is so impressive that you're able to 'squeeze in' studying topics like Mol genetics. It's not light stuff! Academic science, by the way, is about the most un-family friendly field I've heard of, so don't feel bad that you're struggling with making it work. I have a PhD in neuroscience, and my husband and I got married during grad school (we were in the same program together), and I've seen how academia impacts lots of our grad school friends who have gone on to start families. It's incredibly hard! Mostly because it's still a field dominated by male attitudes, even if there are more women going into it now. This isn't to discourage you, but to let you know that it's tough independent of having a doctor husband. The lab atmosphere is not terribly tolerant of outside demands like kids.

I did my degree in a high-profile, very competitive academic lab (since I was a grad student I didn't even get a desk, just a drawer in a file cabinet and some bench space!). I decided academia was for the birds - the competition is too intense and pay for postdocs is ridiculously low, as you may have discovered. Now I am working in a job I love. It took several months of discouraging job-hunting, but I'm a research scientist at a clinical research facility attached to a hospital. I do some clinical research, some basic research, run the lab, write the papers, order the equipment... there's a lot of variety and challenge! Most of my coworkers are women and the head of the lab (well, really it's just the two of us) is extremely understanding about family obligations. I find industry is more sensitive that way just because they have to be - labor laws being what they are - and because the people in the private sector are more connected to 'real' life. I wouldn't go back to academia for anything. Granted, I'm still writing grants (got two under consideration at NIH right now - wish me luck) but my next paycheck doesn't depend on getting them. The good thing is, once you get the degree, you don't have to go back!

Having a genetics degree is THE ticket to a hot job these days! I know, I've been in the job market last year (long story but I retrieved my original job) and found most private companies want someone with genetics/genomics expertise. So your field is a good one for job hunting someday, if you want.

I'm also very lucky in having an ultra-supportive husband. He likes that I have a degree too - and gets annoyed at his family members who write to us as Dr and Mrs rather than Dr and Dr - and doesn't want me to quit work. Not for a while yet, anyway. I forget where you said you live, but here in California we can't make it on a resident's salary. I actually was making motions to quit once the second baby's born, but he convinced me to keep at it. We both know my nature, and I'd get very restless spending all day and call nights alone with the kids. And an extra paycheck is a big help! I am in awe of stay at home moms, actually, bcause my self-esteem seems to benefit from having an outside job that's all my own.

So that's my long reply to your questions. Have you thought about taking a leave of absence? Then you might have pressure-free time to sound out your kids' reactions. And to give some extra attention to your middle daughter. Remember, it DOES matter whether you finish your degree or not. Whichever decision you make is crucial not just to your family but to yourself. Feel free to write me whenever you want - it is fun to talk science with someone who also knows the mom/medical spouse side of things!

Kaaren

Kaaren,



Thanks for the inspirational post....what happened to your other one, by the way? I think that I am frustrated right now by being at home all summer with no real "project"...Yes, one could argue that my children are my project, but with my husband working 7 days a week and a huge number of hours, I am desperate for an intellectual challenge....and for some time with other grown ups!! Many of the other moms are surprised by the courses that I am taking during the semesters...I tell them it is a break compared with raising three children all day long, and it is! Being a mom is the hardest job around, and my hats go off to women who can give selflessly 24/7.



I am quite a sight during the semesters...I make notecards like a crazy woman and carry them with me everywhere...the car, the movies...you name it...so while we are at a stoplight I am thinking transcription/translation...



When the kids are in bed at night instead of watching Trauma Life in the ER (my alltime favorite!!) I am pouring over papers or gels ..and yes, I confess, at times I do this while watching Trauma....I just can't help myself.



Right now, I am spending my summer reviewing Orgo...and reading up on enzyme kinetics and Carbonic Anhydrase so that I will be prepared for the Fall...I have been promised some funding again so that I can work through the semesters (I told the prof I wouldn't hold my breath...and you should have seen the look on his face...but I am so sick of being schmoozed and lied to!). I am just going to manage my Stafford better so that I can make it through somehow.



I would love to hear more from you when you get a chance...I am in need of inspiration!!!



Sincerely



Kristen

My mother did exactly what I am doing. She stayed at home and put us first in her life until she was about 40 and then went back to school (medicine) and now has a thriving, wonderful career. Don't get me wrong, she had a life while we were little. I remember her taking classes and pursuing her many talents and loves. Because she could spend so much time on herself while she raised us she is an over achieving, well rounded person. Once she entered the work force, she realized she had very little time to keep up with her other talents and loves (i.e. less time for herself). The idea that you have to focus on yourself for 40+ hours a week to feel like an adult is false. The notion that you have to earn money in order to have a life is bologne.



The idea that you should put your needs above those of a baby or very young child is selfish. I can't imagine handing my child over to someone I barely know every day. Another person whom I don't even know if I agree with their value system, ideals, and methods of child rearing would be essentially raising my children. I experienced this first hand when my son was about a year old. I decided to go back to a career I love and put my child in a daycare. The daycare was run by a kind woman who is (and still is) a family friend. She and I have much in common in the way of child rearing. The problem? Well, my first hesitation occurred when I realized one of the little boys in the group started calling her "mommy". She strongly discouraged this, but it persisted. After some thought I realized a mommy is not necessarily a genetic mother. A mommy is the person who primarily cares for a child - and this includes quantity of time as well as quality. Even the boring times of the day a child learns things from his or her mother. My son at the same time was going through serious problems with this. He obviously hated not being with me and would cry inconsolably when I left him. Then, he began immediatley falling asleep when I dropped him off and refused to get out of bed until I returned hours later. If he were an adult, many would suspect depression. I read the current literature on the subject and tried many different things. The most common method I found was reasoning away your own child's feelings and needs. I would not selfishly put my needs above the needs of a small child who looked to me as his protector and example. I actually recently read one way to handle the "leaving your child at daycare" dilemma was to have your husband drop the child off so the mother would not have to experience the emotional trauma! Well, that certainly brushes the problem under the rug for the mother, but what about a child who is basically being told your feelings don't count and mommy has better things to do than to take care of you? I ended this arrangement before any more psycochological damage was done to my child. He immediatley improved.



I personally feel the "job" of being mommy is the oldest and most important profession in the world. We are, after all, raising the next generation (carrying on the business of civilization). I feel personally insulted that some feel that you can pay some virtual stranger (and at the larger daycares with high turn over a continuous string of strangers) to do as good a job. This was the chauvinist attitude that led to the feminist revolution - the devaluing of a woman's role in society. "Women's work" is the old phrase for an easy job. Unfortunatley we now have an ideal that we should ignore any "female" job altogther and instead pass these unimportant jobs on to low paid daycare workers. Consequently the fad now is to only do parenting as a hobby - when you have the time and on the weekends.



My point that I mentioned before is that we don't have to live our lives as women on a male timeline. And since most of us consider ourselves primary caregivers we should remember that our small, helpless, ignorant charges are in need of a great deal of love and mercy on our part. Of course, men and even close relatives can and do fill the role of loving caregiver - it is a parenting role and should not be ignored as such. But, since traditionally women give birth, traditionally most people think of the mother as the primary caregiver. I think it is wonderful that some men see thier children as important enough to stay home and raise while mom goes to work - now that is unselfish.



If it is difficult to enter the workforce at 45 for some because they selflessly chose their responsiblities over money or personal gain then that is a problem society needs to fix not perpetuate. You can either be part of the solution or part of the problem. (However, as people live longer, many in their 40s do switch careers and start over again).

I will make my decisions about my children and their childhoods with their best interest in mind. This means they need a mommy who does develop her talents and interests but realizes that love means sacrifice.



I am always amazed at how many women feel guilty about leaving their children for 9+ hours day with someone they may or may not even be friends with yet ignore this feeling! That is your conscience speaking, listen to it.

I'm sure I hacked off just about everyone on this list, but these are children we're talking about, not property. Since women have begun vacating thier roles as full time mothers (raisers of children) the teenage suicide rate, youth crime, rate of unwed teenage mothers, and number of children using drugs have steadily increased. Studies have shown (and are quickly ignored) that show less attachment between parent and child when the child is left in daycare. It is not fashionable or politically correct to point this out, so I am sure I will come under fire for saying this. I don't walk on eggshells - I am honest.



Since I don't expect to have my brain rot in the next few years, I believe I can wait for my mechanical engineering and physics careers until I can focus on them exclusively and thus, make bigger and better and more concentrated contributions to these fields. I do and will "have it all" just with the perspective that I don't have to frantically try to do it all at once and hurt others in the process.



Now, I have been using the general "you" , now I wanted to address Kristen and your feeling so bored and uninspired at home. Why don't you attempt to use this time to explore yourself and find other talents heretofore unkown? I am sure you are probably a brilliant scientist, but what else can you do? I'd bet you'd be pleasantly surprised at what else you are capable of - while you are at home with your kids. Perhaps that is what you are craving - to learn and grow personally. This doesn't have to involve full time seperation from your children. Good luck and remember that until they can survive without adult support and attention, your children are you and your husband's primary responsibility. I hope you can find an answer that will be good for everyone in your family.



Jennifer

I have to add this:



I feel like I am in a no-win situation here. To Kaaren, I won't seem dedicated enough to become a good scientist..to Jennifer, not dedicated enough to me a good mom....it really eats me up to be stuck like this. I really genuinely struggle with the decisions because I want to be true to my family and true to myself. I just don't see this issue as being black and white...with only one person being right.



And in terms of my hidden talents..I have discovered that I am good at refinishing furniture, sewing clothing for NICU babies and the computer...something I was afraid to touch 2 years ago...so I have not just settled myself to huddling away for years...



But I am not an island..I can't stand alone. I am social and I want to be involved with other people. I was happier when I was a working woman before I became a mother because I found the women to be less judgemental in general. I don't like being held up to everyone else's measuring stick of how I "should" be.



The worst offenders though, are women who don't yet have children or just have one small child....ahh, I remember those days when I had all of the answers..before my own children were old enough to find a marker and color their faces or act out like normal children do....

This may be a question of why did you choose to become a mother? You may have "fallen" into the first one, but you have three, so I'm wondering why if you were happier without children? I am in your almost exact situation with three small children (all under 4) and a husband with huge debts and many years of residency yet and a fellowship following that and time spent in the Air Force after that(to repay scholarships). I really am curious because you sound as if you are trapped. And I think we all agree here that a depressed or distressed mother is not good for her children.



I truly understand that many women have to work - they have no choice because they are single, divorced, widowed, or have out of work spouses. My husband's mother was widowed with five children ranging from 0 to 18. She obviously had to support her family even though she had previously enjoyed working as a mother at home.



What I have been talking about is when a woman chooses to not raise her children in order to fulfill her own dreams that she demands immediately.

I don't believe in subjective morality when it comes to taking care of other human beings and their well being. Expecting responsibility and the maintainance thereof is not "judgemental" nor is it an unattainable ideal. Part of your problem seems to be your environment. You aren't getting enough support with the job you have right now. It does take support and a support network - just like any time consuming career does. I'm sure you offer your husband a great deal of support in his career, does he reciprocate? Are you feeling drawn to this decision because that is what others expect of you and because they don't support your current career? (I'm not talking about distant family, I mean the people you interact with from day to day since you don't seem to have supportive friends).





I am so sorry that the other mothers around you are so vapid and petty. That is not my experience in the least. I have met women like that but I usually offend them so deeply early on that I never have to worry about them talking to me again. My real friends are mostly stay at home moms in medical marriages who have small children and tight budgets (many are on Medicaid and receive some sort of government assistance).



It is good to get out and involve yourself in projects outside the home. It is good to have an education. I think we would all agree on these things. But, when you already have a job and it is an important one that involves teaching and nurturing another human being is it justifiable to CHOOSE to ignore it or only work on it when it doesn't interfere with your other interests? I think Kaaren is right to a certain degree - any woman with a maternal instinct will still have a conflict over children and career when they enter the workforce. I think patience for the few years your children are young is a virtue. When they go to school and no one is home then by all means GO FOR IT!



An employer will expect you to put your career first. We encounter this often with my husband's medical career - and it is no different for women. My husband got into big trouble on a pediatrics rotation because I and all three of our children came down with the flu and needed his help at home. The person who got upset with him was a young woman without children who graduated from an Ivy League school and was on a career warpath. She was infuriated that my husband would have priorities outside of work - be prepared to encounter this type of person. In my work experience I found the most judgemental people to be women with "careers". Children and the raising thereof were considered inferior to even the secretary's job!



Just remember no one ever dies wishing they had spent more time at work. (If you haven't heard this little saying it means most people die with the regret of not spending more time with their families).



I have one more question: How long is it until your youngest begins school? It can't be more than five years. Can you not pursue your other interests, find the root of your malcontent with being a mom, and work on finding supportive parents to be your friends for just this very brief time at least? This is the only time your children will be this age whereas you can have a career any time (despite what some frantic people think).



Jennifer

One more thing, I also intend to someday continue my pursuit of a career in science, so us stay at home moms aren't all morons. At one point, in fact, I found out I meet the IQ requirements for Mensa. ....I really need to take that test! Don't be put off by the stay at home moms you've met, we're not all fluff-for-brains. The last book I checked out from the library was on string theory for heaven's sake!



Jennifer

I can respect your feelings, but not the way that you have chosen to express them....I think that you show very little tolerance for other people and their individual situations and needs.



I think that your suggestion that I am an inadequate mother is extremely arrogant. I chose to have my children and I have been an at-home mom for 6 years. During that time I have occasionally taken a University course or worked part-time...but for the most part, I have stayed at home. I began this post because I am struggling with a decision about next semester.



In terms of feeling trapped...Many women have periods where they feel frustrated and resentful...I think that it is pretty normal considering we give up a lot in order to stay at home. This can be heightened by living with a physician husband who is never home and is satisfying his career ambitions. There is nothing pathalogical there, I am afraid.



And, Jennifer, I was accepted to medical school and gave that up 6 years ago to stay home with my son. I could have chosen, like many women do, to continue on that path anyway and put my child in daycare...I did not. I have never used a daycare facility.



What I do understand is that it appears that you do not yet have the insight because your husband is still rather young in his medical career. Medical School and Residency are quite different as you will learn.



I have been "doing" residency/fellowship with my husband for the last 6 1/2 years. I was a stay-at-home mom totally for the first 2 years of his training. Then, I occasionally took a course or two, depending on the situation. When I was pregnant with my third, I was back at home for 1 1/2 years full-time.



At some point, I found it necessary to build a life for myself in order to survive.



Call is much different when they are residents...they are the ones responsible for medical decisions, not the students. I lived through 5 1/2 years of call 1:2, 1:3, 1:4 ...Most of those years were as a stay-at-home mom.



As your husband moves into residency/fellowship and you leave behind your current support network and are forced to start all over a couple of times...then we should talk...because you will certainly see things from a different perspective..particularly considering the fact that you all will be moving around with the airforce...there goes that support system! (Know it because I lived it for years...my dad was army!)





Kristen




Edited by kmmath at: 7/19/00 7:38:30 pm