Polygamous sect issues

[Cumberland]

So I have been following this with some interest. I agree that these children are loved and wanted by their mothers. They appear clean, well fed and healthy. That really isnt the issue. We live in a country with the founding principle of freedom of choice, and the young girls are obviously not free to choose their husbands. If the law is that legal marriage is 16, and this group is marrying off their girls much younger, and without their true consent, or with a coerced consent, it is certainly illegal and a violation of their rights.

I dont see how that is much different than sexual slavery.

:anyolne:

[Meenah]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

I feel the same, to me the fact that the mothers condone it make them just as guilty the men who rape them. Yes, I believe forcing a young girl to have sex is rape.

[DCJenn]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

Most of them believe that to do anything differently will cause them to burn in hell. SO, if your choice is have sex with a geezer or burn in hell, you have sex with a geezer.

The paper here was saying that they're going to have to do DNA tests because the women and children keep changing their names and birthdates in interviews. They did say that they know that many of the pregnant teens are well under the age of consent for Texas. (16)

Jenn

[Meenah]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

Thanks Jenn, now you are forcing me to look at this with a liitle bit of objectivity and compassion, which is not what I wanted to do!!!!!

[Vanquisher]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

It is child abuse. Just because you've been brainwashed since you were a baby to believe differently doesn't make the acts of the grown men any less heinous. These children, often married at the age of 14 to cousins, uncles, or other men in the community who are more than twice their age. They end up pregnant very quickly thereafter, and are effectively trapped as children and later as women in marriages that are abusive. These women, make no mistake, are verbally and often physically abused. They are threatened with losing their children, and are "forced" to live this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAvqc5u9KM

[Deebs]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

I agree that it's abuse. I just read a really interesting book, "Under the Banner of Heaven" that has a great deal of background information on the Mormon Church and where/how the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints came about. I know that when it was published, many members of the LDS church thought it portrayed Mormons in a negative light (I hope no one takes offense at my recommendation), but it really helped me understand some of the cultural differences of LDS and FLDS. To me, a compound where there is condoned rape and inbred marriage is no different from the Corresh compound.

We must do a better job in this country of protecting all of our children. There are mothers that raise children in homes where there are drugs being dealt, violence, and other horrific conditions for children. In the short term, a mother may think that living like that is better than being homeless or without a father. The same could be said for getting married off before 16 (which is also ridiculously young). If we say that this lifestyle is okay, who's to say that those aren't?

[fluffhead]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

The Krakauer book was good, and since then DW has had 2 books out of the library which were first hand accounts by women who left the church - one who's sister was married to Rulon Jeffs, and then to his son Warren (who upon Rulon's death, married his dad's wives).
Fringe groups are always susceptible to mismanagement by wackos. I'm not sure if this would classify them as cults, but it makes for a very sad situation. If the govt would not have interfered with the polygamy issue, perhaps Jeffs would never have become so powerful, and the men would have left the teenagers alone? Maybe? Maybe not?

[fluffhead]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

I don't understand. What do you mean?

Sorry - it's not you, it's me - I'm not firing on all 4 cylinders lately, if you get my drift. Sleep deprivation.

What my convoluted words were supposed to say was that people who wanted to practice polygamy, the normal kind, with wives of consenting age, were made into criminals by govt interference. Being driven to the fringes leaves ample opportunity for leaders to take advantage of people who only want to follow what they hear as the word of God.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

I'm relieved that the Texas authorities came in and took out these victims.

You just don't mess with Texas!

Did you read on the Smoking Gun that the affidavit described several under-16 year olds who were pregnant and one 16 year old with FOUR children?!? 16 and with four kids!!! That child must have been about 12 when she was forced to have sex with some sweaty, nasty, pervert.

The fact that ALL of the women in that community had to know about that one 16 year old - with four kids at that age! - says to me that they were ALL complicit because NONE of them ever reported the abuse that that ONE child was suffering. Now, we know that there were MANY of these girls suffering.

I've been watching interviews with these women and I have two observations: 1) They all act like they are stoned or something - seriously are they all drugged?? 2) I've heard a couple of them openly lie to reporters during interviews and I've seen a whole lot of them dodging of the important issues around this (like, HELLO! Child rape!).

Just turns my stomach.

This is organized crime using the cloak of religion to protect the highly illegal activities of its members. It is organized crime that centers around what is little more than human trafficking.

I'm glad this child sex-ring was broken up.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

This woman, Carolyn Jessop, has a superb book titled Escape, that gives a very good idea of life in this child-sex ring. Here is the Time interview she did:

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0 ... 26,00.html

As far as Under the Banner of Heaven, the author puts for the idea that the “roots of their [the Lafferty brothers’] crime lie deep in the history of an American religion practiced by millions” (Mormons, that is).

And, it is utterly false. It is a great book if you want to hear a blatantly anti-Mormon opinion. Otherwise the man's "accounts" of the "history" of the LDS church are at odds with, well, history. In other words, if you read the book and believe what the author wrote about the history of the LDS church you just fell for a truckload of doggy poo.

Here is a link to the response on the church's website which actually directly addresses the logical fallacies, historical inaccuracies and general inconsistancies of the author:

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... -of-heaven

If you want to learn about the Mormon church there are MUCH more credible sources. If you want inaccurate information sensationalized to fit the author's agenda then definitely read Under the Banner of Heaven. I can also recommend some anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic, and anti-Muslim books for you to read that are just as "accurate".

The bottom line is that the FLDS is akin to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints about as much as the Baptists or Pentecostals are akin to David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. And, these perverts had better all end up in prison (or on death row given that Texas gives the death penalty to child rapists).

[Deebs]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to offend anyone. I actually just thought the book was interesting and really pointed out that the LDS church isn't the same as the FLDS church (I have personally met people that think all Mormons condone polygamy and cult-like activity). Thanks for the website with the response - I had already read it after I finished the book (there is an afterward explaining the church's response, and so I did some Googling of my own). No hard feelings???

[Rapunzel]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

Oh, no, I am not upset at all.

Really, I'm not!

I just come across as a bulldozer sometimes - well, a lot - on the internet.

I'm sorry if I offended you!

[DCJenn]

Re: Polygamous sect issues

What it has demonstrated is the power that fear has to control behavior.

It comes down to trust- the powers that be have convinced the adults that they must trust the powers that be and completely distrust the outside world or they will suffer- forever.

Scary f-ing stuff.

Jenn