Preferred Gender pronouns

[Ladybug]

I just can't...I'm just so frustrated with this. At conferences last year people would state their name, some random fact about themselves, and then their preferred gender pronouns. She/her, He/Him, they/their (my personal favorite because now you have multiple personalities and are exponentially more interesting to me). If you can't remember what people's preferred pronouns are you are *offending* them and not gender sensitive. The onus is now on the listener not to offend the talker.

Personally I identify as a goddess. If you don't address me as goddess I will be offended because you are making me question my goddess status.

[rufflesanddots]

Goddess would imply you would prefer she/her, right?

I think this is a new thing for many people (I also encountered it in the last year). As trans and gender nonconforming people gain more visibility and acceptance in U.S. society we're going to have to update our language. I think it's really important to respect people's wishes surrounding this issue.



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[spotty_dog]

Nah. If somebody prefers pronouns that aren't obvious, it's such a small thing for you to observe and so big for the person to feel accepted. FWIW, it's true that they/their is awkward -- but that's English for you. "Did you see someone sitting here? I think they left their wallet." Pretty standard usage, funky grammar notwithstanding.

The onus is always on an individual to behave as politely as they may. If you inadvertently offend, you apologize for the offense and move on. You don't have to feel stabbed in the heart just because someone points out, "Hey, you know, I'm really not comfortable when you use those words that way." Even if the other person chooses to *act* like you stabbed them in the heart. (I guess I can see that in your state, there could be people who might be particularly prone to get shrill about such things!) I think it's an example of boundaries: take responsibility for your actions, but not necessarily for how your actions are perceived? Do your best, you're only human. But don't intentionally screw it up, because that's a dick move.

I have a cousin who prefers male pronouns now and I think he's transitioning to male. I'm sure if I ever saw him I'd slip up because my only memories of him are from 20 years ago when he was my cousin Becky. But you'd better believe I'd try to get it right.

[alotofyarn]

Using ze and hir for gender neutral pronouns is really common in an academic group I'm in. It kind of makes me crazy, and I have a hard time participating in the group because of it.

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[Vanquisher]

My daughter has at least one good friend who identifies as gender neutral. I call K "they/them" because that is what they prefer, and it doesn't bother me at all. They doesn't mind if some slips up and calls they "she/her." K really appreciates the effort and it is helping them to feel more accepted. We were worried about K because of suicidal ideation they had expressed, and we know that suicide rates are high in gender nonconforming and trans communities.

To me, I guess, it's a rather small thing.

[poky]

I have a cousin who prefers male pronouns now and I think he's transitioning to male. I'm sure if I ever saw him I'd slip up because my only memories of him are from 20 years ago when he was my cousin Becky. But you'd better believe I'd try to get it right.

Yup, younger sibling of a good friend of mine transitioned years ago; I didn't see him very often; after he stated his preferred new name and pronouns, I totally called him by the (female) name I'd known him by since we were about 4. Probably more than once. Apologized, he smiled and said "It's OK, it happens!", and we went on. You'll get used to it pretty quickly.
The dick move is purposely using non-preferred pronouns, or not apologizing when you screw up. Yes, some people might be impatient and obnoxious if you mess up, but if you apologize and do better, it's on them if they get bent out of shape even with an apology. If I can remember which of my friends named Lisa spell it that way vs Lesa or Kristin vs Kristen, or Wendy vs Wendi, I can remember a person's pronouns, too. Which is to say, I will eventually, but will probably screw it up the first few times.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I totally get in 1:1 interactions (and even in group settings) that you should use preferred pronouns. But I do think there has to be some grace extended if you're in a large group and there's a lot of variations that everyone might not remember everyone's exact preferences the first few times they address each other.

[poky]

I totally get in 1:1 interactions (and even in group settings) that you should use preferred pronouns. But I do think there has to be some grace extended if you're in a large group and there's a lot of variations that everyone might not remember everyone's exact preferences the first few times they address each other.

Absolutely, there should be grace extended, and my bet is there USUALLY will. You don't get to throw up your hands and not try, or not apologize when you get it wrong, even if the person corrects you in a way you don't like. If they react badly, it's on them, as an individual; don't compound it by deciding it's not worth it to even try, or by assuming everyone who requests nonstandard pronouns will always react badly, or by reacting badly in return.

Honestly, if it's a large group of people who don't know each other well, they should have nametags anyway, and if more than a couple people request nonstandard pronouns, that should probably be on the nametags, too, which makes it easy.

[Ladybug]

There is no grace extended. Believe me. It is an opportunity to pounce on people and accuse them of all kind of things. It is not pretty. They are not nice people.

[rufflesanddots]

I'm sorry you're being attacked. I hope this doesn't color your experience going forward and that you continue to keep trying.

I've been respectfully and gently reminded each time I've messed up. It's really unfortunate you're not being treated that way.

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[Ladybug]

I think there are public faces that make everyone feel better about themselves and our lives more palatable. There is another side of self loathing, anger, projection and victimhood manipulation. It's just nicely wrapped.

[Ladybug]

My "group" is 350 people

[MAPPLEBUM]

My "group" is 350 people

Is this group online? People can be way more venomous online.

Whenever there's ambiguity I ask the person's name again to make sure I got it right and then use that exclusively.


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[PrincessFiona]

[MENTION=1048]Ladybug[/MENTION] I've had similar bad experiences. A friend of mine transitioned from female to male. She dresses and now looks like a man but prefers to be called "she" and refers to herself as "mom". She is married to a woman. I adore her. But you should see how outraged she gets when people assume she is a man. Did I mention she wants to look like a man and uses male toilets? She freaks out, is rude, and posts ridiculous victimization posts on FB. Her other friends all tell her how hateful people are. I want to say, "you dress like a man and you now look like a man. What are people supposed to think?


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[Ladybug]

Thank you. My group is 350 students I work with daily and this is picking up speed, especially in academics and trickling down. It's impossible. It's gender fluidity overload. People who aren't trans are trying to make a statement that they support gender fluidity and to highlight social assumptions, but I feel like I'm silently screaming in a white padded room.