Normal Behavior?

I am really worried about my oldest son right now...really, really worried and I need some input from all of you mothers out there!



Andrew is 5 1/2 and he has always been my sensitive, warm, easy-going child. If another child was crying at the park, he would go up to them and hug them...he has always enjoyed playing on his own though and I have attributed that to his unique personality...I myself am shy in groups so I can understand.



About 2 weeks before school started I noticed a BIG change in his personality....all of a sudden he became extremely defiant...and would just run WILD!! If I said it was time to leave the park he would laugh at me and run away...if he was in someone's way and I asked him to move...he would just lash out at me and that person (often another child). I was so totally taken by surprise at this behavior...I couldn't believe it. I tried not to overreact and the first time I tried setting him in time-out....and he just jumped back up called me an idiot and went off to play. I was so embarassed because we were with friends....



The behavior deteriorated...when we are in the car, he pulls our 18 mo olds hair and hits our 4 year old....like he just can't get a grip on himself or something. I have to admit that there were times in the last few weeks that I really exploded over this behavior and even resorted to spanking because of my own ridiculous feelings of inadequacy in parenting or getting a change to occur.



We were at the doctors office last week and he ran under the table, threw books, stepped on our baby, pinched the doctor, called me names, hit our daughter...while the doc stood there in shock....trying to tell me "you need to do this, you need to do that" while my 18 mo old cried and my 4 year old was coloring on the examination table. It was such a nightmare and the final analysis "see me in two weeks with your husband to discuss him". I was really scared by all of this. My husband and I decided to really try and get things under control and spend some quality time with him and work to improve our relationship. Thomas took him out to the movies alone on a Thursday evening for some special time. And Anderw just sort of freaked out...after it was over, he decided that he would rather have gone to Books-A-Million to play with the trains and have a drink and got hysterical....yelling at my husband. They walked through the door and I was expecting to see two happy people. Instead, my husband came through the door with a 5 year old screaming that he hates us all and that he is moving out the next day....and he just repeated it over and over again...and then laid in bed and MOANED! I totally flipped out...terrified that something is really wrong. Thomas fueled this by saying that he though Andrew needs a CT scan or something. To top it off, the behavior occurred with Andrew at school as well on that Thursday.



We had a good day on Friday and I was feeling relief...he seemed to be more like his old self...then yesterday he started getting antsy again in the evening. We were all going to go to Books-A-Million for a drink, etc...and we got in the car and he SPIT in my face. When Thomas asked him why he did that...he spit in his face...and then when we told him that we werent going to Books-A-Million he spit at everything in the car.



I stopped the car and took him out of his car seat. We went over to the side of the road and I sat down with him and gave him a chance to tell me he was sorry and to talk with me and he spit in my face REPEATEDLY...we went home and put him to bed and took away his train set as a punishment....I went in to talk to him....and he spit in my face again.....I am SO DEVASTATED....how can this be happening...what is going on? Is this just a little rebellion or nervousness...I don't know...He laid in bed then when he realized that we really weren't going there and cried hysterically.....and I came in and talked to him and then he apologized and cried and said please forgive me....so we let him sleep in our bed with us (we were all watching a rugrats movie).



I am just so worried that this may be something more than just school jitters...I have been going over and over the last few months in my head looking at my mistakes as a mom and wondering...is this my fault?



Am I overreacting?



Kristen

You got through to him by not giving in and going on the trip to the book store. I would have lost it had anyone of my kids spit on me! My husband as well. I would suggest to keep taking the "fun" things away from him. When he is down to nothing he should get the message. Once you say it follow through with it. We have skipped baseball practice, and stayed home from swimming several times. Just make sure that he understands that everyone is suffering because of his actions. There was a kid on Brennon's t-ball team that had to sit in the stands and watch the team play because he had been ugly. Everyone that walked by asked Nick why he wasn't playing. He told us all "I was ugly to my parents".

Stuff like that really works it's just up to us parents to stick with it. I can find all kinds of punishment things for our oldest 2. I have made our oldest put on rubber gloves and pick up dog poop. Some might think it's a little harsh but it sure works for Aaron. The problem I'm having is trying to find something that works on our 3 year old. If Richard and I ever divide on the punishment the boys see this and run with it. I think the big thing is to stay calm and to follow through with whatever type of punishment it is. He has hit an age of "testing his wings". Just stay with him and be consistent ~ Devera

Thanks, guys...I value your opinions...and feel some relief in knowing that I am not alone...and that this is more a discipline thing....I think it is because we have good days as well....but you know doc hubby always has to stretch for the most unlikeyl cause....



Adding to that last though, Jennifer, about the pediatrician...how about a male OB who asks you when you are pregnant and cramping what those cramps feel like..."are they like menstrual pains"...like he would know!



Kris

Oh Kristen! You have just described my son to a tee! At least that is my son when we aren't being too consistent and get a little lax with how we treat him. I read a lot on little boys a while ago because of my son's out of control behavior. The theory I liked the best and that seems to work well with Alex is this: Boys need to know three things, what the rules are, who makes the rules, and what happens when the rules are broken. Not that this brings over night change. But for Alex I repeatedly spell out to him what he can and cannot do (for example when we go to the store I tell him he cannot run away from me) and then I tell him the consequences if he disobeys me (he will have to sit in the shopping cart - which he hates because it's what "babies" do). And then if we are at home I ignore the tantrums he throws when he gets into trouble ( I didn't used to and he got REALLY wild because he caught my attention). If we are in public I IGNORE anyone looking at my screaming child and we leave only if we are in a place that must be quiet or if leaving is part of the punishment.



My son still drives me crazy sometimes, however, he has become much better now that he knows what is expected of him. There have been days where this child has spent hours in his room or in timeout because he just can't get it together. I am the same way sometimes, I need to be alone to "cool off" and face the world.



Now, on occasion Alex does get spanked. This is never in public or in front of others as that would be VERY embarassing for him. And it tends to only be for extreme behavior (I think the spitting incident would count for us). After any discipline I make a big effort to let my son know that he is loved. It is important that he know what his father always says, "You are a good boy who made a bad mistake." Sometimes kids start thinking that they themselves are bad because they keep getting into trouble. This, in turn leads to more bad behavior.



I don't know that what worked for me is necessarily the solution to your son's problems. I think you also might want to make sure he doesn't have any physical ailment to be on the safe side. I say this because the worst I ever saw my son (nonstop tantrums) was when he was in pain from his VP shunt and the pressure problems in his head. He couldn't exhibit much self control because he hurt (think about when you have a headache and your level of frustration and anger). I don't want you to be scared by this possiblity because 99% of the time this is purely a behavioral problem (and don't let anyone talk you into drugging your child without serious testing). In my personal opinion your son sounds like a case for discipline, not a doc.



By the way I hate pediatricians that think because they know how to physically care for my child they automatically are child psychologists and discipline experts. I have had men who have no children try to tell me the best way to pottytrain or discipline! Don't be scared because some doctor thinks they are qualified to be something that they aren't. Your son actually sounds quite NORMAL!!!

Hi Kristin:



I'm praying for you and your little guy. I agree with Devera, the spitting thing would have caused me to flip!!! Okay, everyone has said things I would do too as a parent. So, I thought, what would I do as a teacher? Have you ever read the book Alexander's No Good, Very Bad Day. Sometimes a book addressing the behavior is appropriate. And remember the behavior is bad, the child is still good...we've just got to find him in that body of his!!! Books and moral lesson videos are good ways to teach and address inappropriate behavior. Taking away something he likes to have or do is a good strategy. Also, praising him and your other children when they do even the littlest nice gesture is good as well. I'm just trying to think of other ways to address this situation. When I was young my parents used to make me sit on the couch, not talk, and just sit there with them in the room. That was punishment to me.



Also, another thought is don't have your other children have to deal with him when he acts like that. If your son spits on them, tell them that what he doing is not right and give them praise or give them a special treat for putting up with him (...a cookie or something). Eventually, he'll see that it's better to do something good to get something good than to do something bad and get nothing at all!!! No praise or rewards for bad behavior!!!



Hey Kristin, one time Wesley bit me when he was little, and when I got the *evil eye* and told I was going to bite him back next time, he never did it again. Also, you could always restrain him by sitting behind him on a couch with your arms around his and wrap your legs around his until he gets himself under control. And you tell him, when you settle down I'll let you go. It sounds harsh, but it works. Hey, that's where my special ed training has helped me. I had to do this an Autistic child last year and it works!! It got to the point where I said: "Do you want me to hold you?" and his behavior immediately change for the better!!!!



First start with the positive, praise approach...but if it's getting you nowhere then get tough and use the punishment (considered negative approach). Whatever works!! And let us know how things go!!!



Christy

Mom to Wesley, my 2nd grader

and Jonah, my 3 weeker