Election News

Well, here I am in the heart of FL.....listening to the news about this election....It sure is interesting. I would like to hear what is news for y'all living in other states...



We here alot right now about voter fraud, mail-in fraud in Fl, police stopping African-Americans and preventing them from voting (I am really hard-pressed to believe that...) and of course the 13,000 + votes that have been disqualified...at the end of the day I have to say that the Democrats (and I am one, by the way) made and approved the ballot..It was sent to all registered voters and no objections were made at the time....It is truly unfortunate if at the end of all of this it would cause Gore to lose...but I think that Gore should concede if the recount shows Bush coming out on top...Any thoughts?



Kristen

[Lisa]

Wow, Kristen. It is just absolutely amazing to me what is going on. There are so many different issues surrounding this whole thing. I certainly understand the outrage coming from Palm Beach county. If the guy that I really wanted to be president lost because several thousand people voted wrong or were confused with the ballot, I would be really upset. On the other hand, during every election, this type of thing goes on (allegations of irregularities, many votes are ALWAYS thrown out because people did not use the ballot correctly, etc.) The only reason this is coming to light here is because of the closeness of the race and because it is an important presidential race. Did you know that in 1996, there were 16,000 votes thrown out in Palm Beach County because of improper marking of ballots? It's quite normal for this to happen, thousands of ballots are disqualified at the end of lots if not all of elections and people would not be complaining if the whole election didn't hinge on this one county. Also, there are counties all across the country that reported irregularities where the vote was very close, so if people are calling for a re-vote in Palm Beach County, shouldn't we also have a re-vote in these other counties in different states that reported irregularities and the vote was very close? We have to ask ourselves how much are we willing to go through and allow this to drag out. I also have to wonder why the citizens did not complain that the ballot was confusing when it was published before the election. I saw the ballot and there were very large, distinct arrows pointing from each candidate to their respective holes. They use this same type of "butterfly" ballot in other states and there isn't a problem with it. Obviously, though, people were confused and I'm thinking maybe it was the way the ballot was folded in half booklet-style that caused people not to really look at the other side, I don't know. I don't understand how one could be confused, decide to punch out two holes and then put the ballot in the machine and walk out of the polling place in hysterics (as one state rep. said he saw people doing). If you're confused, you mess up your ballot, you go to an election official and get a new one or complain BEFORE you cast your vote. Don't wait until the election is over and your man lost before you raise a big stink. I hope this is a lesson to everyone that when you enter the voting booth, you study the ballot carefully, look at all sides, vote with the solemnity that the process deserves. I have been registered to vote for many years, I've voted in 3 different states and I voted in FL this year and I have NEVER witnessed people being turned away from polls or being prevented from voting or "tricked" in any way. Our polling places were PACKED OUT and no one was being turned away. In fact, everyone was excited to see such a great turnout. I find it hard to believe all of those tales.



I do think that it is important that the voice of the people be heard, though. It would not be good for a president to be voted in on a technicality rather than what the people really wanted and usually elections are not so close that we begin to wonder about what difference the disqualified votes might have made. What if we started looking at all of the disqualified votes in other counties in FL? For instance, in our county (Bay) which voted for Bush 2 to 1, if we were to look at all of the ballots that were disqualified for one reason or another, how many more votes would that have added for Bush? If we begin to do that, then this process could drag on forever. We have to decide where we're going to draw the line. I don't know where that line should be and that is for a judge who knows the law better than me to decide.



This whole thing reminds me of a Senate race in Louisiana when we lived there. In that race the Democrat won and the votes were VERY close. There were lots of charges of irregularities and charges of fraud in Baton Rouge coming from the Republican candidate's camp (mind you, Louisiana is notorious for corrupt politics). There were charges that dead people were registered to vote as Democrats and there were signatures where these people had come to vote, but they were deceased, that people were being paid to vote a certain way and other such fraud charges. These were really SERIOUS fraud charges, not just about confusion over the ballot such as what is going on in Palm Beach Co. The Republican nominee began a lengthy investigation, took it to court and everything and it really put a sour taste in everyone's mouth. He was seen as a sore loser (even though there were serious fraud allegations raised), and it really gave him a bad name. The people of that state did not want to be put through a bunch of lengthy court battles over it.



It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out. This is definitely making history.

I have to agree with you, Lisa. I think that voter fraud, for example, is not limited to Florida and problems with people marking their ballots does happen everywhere. It is only being publicized now in Florida because the vote is so close...but you already know that.



So I wonder what is going to happen?! Gore sort of looks like he is pouting over losing...although what are the new numbers....he lost by 327 votes? wow....only 327...of course the absentee ballots haven't been counted.



No matter who wins I think that they will have a pretty tough time looking like the "winner"....



What do you think about the idea of a national revote?



Kristen

[Lisa]

You have to remember that the numbers that the networks are putting out are the unofficial numbers from the Associated Press. Those numbers were derived from doing surveys of election officials in the different counties, not official election results. The OFFICIAL election results from the State of Florida show Bush winning by over 1700 votes with 53 of the counties reporting. The official numbers are very different from the numbers the media has been putting out. The numbers coming from Katherine Harris from the State of Florida are much closer to the original election results than the numbers the networks are reporting. The remaining counties do not have to have their results in until Tuesday, by law and then, like you said, there are the overseas ballots to count. So, we have to take what the media says with a grain of salt.



I don't know if Gore is pouting. It seems that he is very upset, and rightfully so. Imagine what these guys go through only to lose on a technicality (possibly)! Gore has ALWAYS wanted to be president and his whole career has been strategized in order to get him to this place. This is his BEST chance to become president and he may lose over all of this. I do feel bad for him. I do not, however, feel that it is unfair that votes get tossed because people mutilate their ballots. It happens in every election. I also do not feel that there would be protests over the ballot confusion if the election were not so close. Many people all over the country are confused when they look at their ballots and now this thing in FL is stirring up allegations of confusion and irregularities all over the country. It's crazy! I told Chad that I bet ballot confusion is a common thing in Palm Beach Co. because of the large number of senior citizens there. I mean, there were 16,000 thrown out there in '96 for the same reason. The ballot this year was designed specifically for the senior citizens with large print so that they could see it better. It seems to be a common problem there.



I would not be opposed to a national re-vote. I think that a national re-vote would be more fair than a re-vote only in one county to get Gore's numbers up. That way, people all over the country who had their ballots tossed or who were confused at the polls would have a second chance, not just the folks in Palm Beach Co. However, I don't think a national re-vote is going to happen. It's very hard to get election results overturned even when there are charges of fraud and it will be practically impossible to get national, presidential results overturned because people were "confused" about their ballot. If the folks in Palm Beach Co. get a re-vote simply because they made a lot of noise, then the people in Milwaukee could say, "Hey, wait a minute, we were confused and marked the wrong person too! We want a re-vote!" and it could just go on and on like that.



When it all boils down, the country is split 50/50 over who should be president. I mean, you can squabble over all of these little numbers, but when roughly 100,000,000 people went to the polls on Tues., the votes were split in half. Gore can say, "I got more." and Bush can say, "I got more.", but really it's basically 50/50. They just need to decide how far they're willing to take this and how much they're willing to put the country through before they settle it. I personally feel they should wait until all of the official numbers come in, wait for all of the re-tabulations to be completed and made official and wait until all of the overseas ballots come in and are counted. Then, when we get a FINAL number and it's all said and done, that should be the pres. I really do not want to see a court battle take place. The world is watching us and this country has been through enough scandals and court battles the last few years.

Gosh, Lisa...you have really impressed me with your knowledge. I can't add anything without sounding like a real drip!







Kris

Yikes! Most of our vacation was watching the Election News. Who would have thought we would be in the very state that is having all this excitement!!!!



On another note, West Virginia, my homestate, which is primarily Democrat voted Republican this time around. Mom and Dad said that the people of WV loved that GW Bush came to visit and we're impressed with him. This brings me to another point, if the government did away with the Electorial College, Bush would have never made it to our state to campaign. We're for keeping the Electorial College in tact for that reason.



I do agree that whoever 'wins' will have a tough job ahead of them and he may not feel like a 'winner' after all this. We're looking forward to tomorrow to see what happens. Everyone up here in PA are a little apprehensive about all that is going on. It's just 'not knowing' that is so concerning. It'll all work out though.



Well, I've enjoyed your posts, Kristen and Lisa.



Christy
Romans 8:28

What would you think about keeping the electoral college, but having states like CA and Fl split up their votes....ie winner doesnt take all 25 Fl. votes....perhaps the votes could be split up into two regions of Fl...13 and 12 votes or something. To me, it seems unfair that any candidate, democrat or republican could win in a state by 300 votes and win all 25 electoral votes....like CA...they have something like 50-odd votes...and Gore won there but not by a landslide. If CA had been divided up into 5 ten-point regions then Bush may have taken some and Gore the other...then we wouldn't be depending on a "hand-count" in Fl...



any thoughts on this?



Kris

Well only because I am such a vocal person I had to chime in on this one.



Now all of a sudden hand counting votes introduces a possibilty of error? Has someone on the republican side forgotten that we have been hand counting ballots in this country for the past 200 years. And was it not George Bush who signed into law just last year in the State of Texas, requiring--that's right requiring--hand counts if elections are close. I am seeing much hypocrisy here.



All in all I think if there was that much confusion and the Republicans are that concerned about pick and choosing individual counties and precincts then we should go with the first option that the Dems threw out and that is hand count all of the precincts in Florida--The Rep.'s are claiming this could take another 4 weeks--not true the actual estimate is 10-14 days. Quite frankly I believe that a hand recount would actually shore up Bush's numbers--And I voted for Gore, however I believe it is in the best interest of the country for the voice of the people to be heard. This election was too close not to explore every avenue so that the incoming president, whomever it might be, can assume that role with a sense of legitimacy. If this is not completely resolved it will plague the new presidency an the country for the next four years.



I personally have not that large of a problem with Bush winning hte election--of course I would like to see Gore win but having bush in that office for 4 years is going to do nothing but strengthen the democratic party, and probably win over some converts--so I am pretty satisified with any resolution as long as it is achieved so that the country knows exactly who won.



as kris would say that is my .02

Kristen,



I do think that would be a interesting idea...splitting up the electorial college based on regions within a state. I may be for that. I would have to look closely at the guidelines before I decide though.



Jason,



No matter who wins, there will be a shadow over the presidency. It is true that hand counts have been used over hundreds of years, but you must admit that in a race this close inaccuracies can and will happen with hand-counting ballots. I'm sure anyone can figure out who we voted for knowing what we believe in, but whether a Democrat or Republican, I think we can agree that the counting of votes must be conducted in a fair way, and that's what the courts are deciding right now. What a tough call!



I am not sure about what Governor Bush signed or didn't sign into law. If you find an objective article on-line, please post. Don't believe everything you hear either side say, they're pulling for their parties like good politicians. I refuse to believe everything these people say, it's slanted.



Well, that's my opinion!



Christy
Romans 8:28

[Lisa]

Each side, (Democrat AND Republican) are fighting to get their man elected. They are doing what is in their best interest (not necessarily America's best interest) and there is very little bipartisanship going on if any. For either side to say, "Oh, we're just doing what the people want. We're just trying to be fair." is a bunch of baloney. Each side is doing what they need to do to get their man elected - period. And I guess that's their job, huh? For either side to criticize the other's actions is one kettle calling the other kettle black.



What really disturbs me is that there is 'Chad' all over the floor in the rooms where these recounts are or have been conducted. That concerns me. I only hope that all counties with outdated voting methods will spend a little money and switch to electronic voting!

[Lisa]

Each side, (Democrat AND Republican) are fighting to get their man elected. They are doing what is in their best interest (not necessarily America's best interest) and there is very little bipartisanship going on if any. For either side to say, "Oh, we're just doing what the people want. We're just trying to be fair." is a bunch of baloney. Each side is doing what they need to do to get their man elected - period. And I guess that's their job, huh? For either side to criticize the other's actions is one kettle calling the other kettle black. In the end, I think that all of the power has been taken out of the hands of the citizens and put in the hands of a few biased individuals.



What really disturbs me is that there is 'Chad' all over the floor in the rooms where these recounts are or have been conducted. That concerns me. I only hope that all counties with outdated voting methods will spend a little money and switch to electronic voting!

[Lisa]

Excuse me, I think it's the POT calling the kettle black.

This election situation is something. I can hardly keep up with
court decisions and new court cases!!!! Yikes!!! How are the
Floridians surviving down there? Lisa, are you in the same county
as Pensacola is. I heard last night that many of the absentee
ballots come from the county that Pensacola is in. I miss it
there!!! I loved living in Pensacola.



Back to the issues.
..



Do you think the election will end over the weekend
or even before Thanksgiving? It would be nice, but I seriously
doubt it. What news channel do you watch for your election news?
We watch Fox News Channel mostly. If you ever get the chance
watch The O'Reilly Factor at 8pm Eastern/rerun 11pm Eastern.
It's another one of those thought-proking shows.



Well,
hope to hear from you on this, Lisa.



Christy
Romans 8:28

Let's all just pray that this is over soon and that Al just concede'
s--it is evident that witht he Secretary of STate's decision
last night that Bush is going to take Florida--eveyrone and I
do mean everyone in this mess is looking like 6 graders on a
playground fighting over the higest rung on the monkey bars--
howe embarassing



yes my attitude has changed a little
bit over night

Jason,



I certainly agree with you there!



Christy
Romans 8:28