New Board ( 1

Hi guys...I hope that you will find this new forum a useful place to meet and chat. You don't have to become a registered user to post, but may do so if you choose.

Sincerely,

Kristen Math

well I am game--i think I am loosing my mind and I think i have become a huge pain in the back end despite my efforts to try to be supportive

Being a male spouse is only unique from being a female spouse in that fact that society seperates men and women by gender, not by the roles they play in life. Therefore, I find it difficult to have anyone to speak with since all of the physician spouses who are available here are female. It seems maintaining a friendship with a female is very difficult and fraught with problems. Not all male spouses take up the slack in the home and family life and are into their careers as much as the physician spouse is. I hate to paint the cup as half empty! LOL. Traditionally men do not do housework, nurture the children, prepare the meals, handle all of the comings and goings, etc. (i.e. the traditional role of the wife). I do find this my role in life and enjoy it very much, but as many housewives proclaim a lack of appreciation from their spouses, lack of personal recognition as individuals in the community so do I! I find more in common with the female spouses. I am somewhat taken back by there being a seperate message room for males and a unique one for motherhood even here. I feel that motherhood should be replaced by "Marriage and Family". Maybe all of the men don't feel the way I do, but I hate to be excluded from things such as Mothers of Preschoolers LOL. At a meeting of the American Medical Association Alliance, the 4 men present were deluged with questions on how to promote male membership in their organization. Some women felt that having football parties, beer and pizza was the answer. I answered that a group must treat a male spouse the same way as a female spouse, as an individual and ask them what their interests are, what is important in their life and forget the stereotypes! Treat people as people regardless of gender! Oh, if it were only so! Here people always ask you first thing.. What do you do? In Europe people ask what are your interests.. what is important to you and the last thing would be about your employment status! Think about it! Do people really want to get to know you or are they just being polite?
http://web.prtel.com/stephens
http://www.mnmed.org/prmsa
http://www.aflac.com/StevenStephens56538-0278.cfm

Point well taken. I actually did not have the male chat around until recently. I was approached by several guys who felt alienated by the site because they feel like they fall through the cracks everywhere....."everything is so "female" oriented...we need a place of our own."...so I responded by creating a page for them...interestingly, they didn't really return.....I am changing the name of the motherhood forum to "Parenthood". We already have a Marriage and Family board...I think that that is quite appropriate and I appreciate the input. I would love to hear some of your comments on how I can make this site more guy-friendly without alienating anyone....It is tough as a female to kow the right way to repsond and so I apologize for offending.

Now...where have you been in Europe? ...I would love to hear all about your experiences. My husband is German and I lived in Germany and Northern Ireland for several years....but answer me in the Marriage and Family section...

Sincerely,

Kristen


Edited by kmmath  at: 9/3/00 2:26:32 pm

Welcome Steve!

I don't usually post on the boards here, preferring mainly to use the surviving residency eGroup, but I wanted to greet other male medical spouses. Since I joined, I've been somewhat perplexed at the overwhelming lack of male contributions. I was starting to wonder if this was due to the fact that women are just generally more comfortable sharing their feelings in a group setting, or if this is instead a frightening indication of just how male-dominated the medical world still is. (Fortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case in my wife's program; in her department, there are only about five or six male residents to about 30 females!)

I agree that it can be difficult to be a guy in the midst of so many women in this online community, but I have to say that I have been amazed at how much I have in common with most of the female spouses here. Their insights and stories have been extremely encouraging to me. Of course, I have always been a guy who forms friendships more easily with women than with men, but I think this is also evidence of the overall similarity of experience all medical mariages share. Nevertheless, I welcome the chance to chat with other men out there who are married to doctors.

One point you bring up that I want to address is the issue of men not traditionally doing housework, etc. This can tend to sound very chauvenistic, but I don't think that's how you mean it. It is actually an issue Lisa and I struggle with constantly. As a man with my own career, I feel like I do my share of the chores, cleaning, cooking, etc., but Lisa often begs to differ. She'd prefer I do much more. I think she feels that since she works almost twice the number of hours I do, I should take up more of the slack at home. I certainly want to help out, but I always seem to hit some kind of built-in male mental block, and I just can't get it done. So, I do SOME of the laundry, SOME of the cleaning, and this looks to Lisa like I half-assed it. But I have my own full-time job, plus I do freelance graphic design, PLUS our finances (which I have always happily done for us both) and of course I like to relax a little bit, too, you know? After all, I'm not the one who chose to become a doctor. I'm happy to help out more than usual during residency, but I don't feel I should be expected to do everything just because she's jealous that I chose a life with more free time in it. It makes me wonder how this will affect us when we have kids someday, and I just hope that by then things are more balanced (post-residency, that is).

Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a bitter husband... I'm actually very pleased with my marriage lately, and I think Lisa is, as well. I was just wondering if other guys out there had any thoughts about this.

-Chris

Dear Kristen:
I do believe there is a great need for the Mr. MD forum for Male Spouses. Traditionally it is difficult for many men to share feelings and this is a great place to experience doing so. It is because of this that most male spouses in my particular situation find it easier to talk with female spouses. Please keep this forum and thank you so much for changing Motherhood to Parenthood!!
http://web.prtel.com/stephens
http://www.mnmed.org/prmsa
http://www.aflac.com/StevenStephens56538-0278.cfm

Thank you for responding! Pretty exciting to have a male spouse respond! I can relate to everything you said, especially about the work load and having our own careers. It is important in my relationship with my wife Wendy that we decided long ago during medical school that I was to take up the slack at home and with children as her schedule became intense and that continues until this day. As far as doing a good enough job for her satisfaction? That is another story! I noticed that you used the word HELP OUT as if the sole responsibility for the home was your wife's responsibility and that men just HELP OUT. Just like men BABYSITTING. It isn't babysitting when one is a parent, male of female. We are being parents. We men are not off the hook, just traditionally we have been getting the easy route, the KINGLY route, since we bring home the bacon. I don't know if that picture was every quite correct. Together we take care of the home, nurturing the children. It takes more communication and lots of work, but can be well worth it. I too have a career. The children are in daycare 18 hours a week. With a 5 year old starting kindergarten on Tuesday I have decided I will keep him at home in the AM and see him onto his bus at 11:30. I just will not set any appointments in the AM. I do have a flexible occupation and am self employed. Each couple needs to work it out however it is possible and AGREE to keep with the committments and results. We can still feel that things are unjust, things can be adjusted. Hey, I even go to therapy once a month! :LOL. That is mostly to do with grieving the loss of our son 6 years ago, but relationship issues do come up. I am not saying I am perfect at any of this and it sounds as if your relationship is going better than mine. That is a whole other story! :LOL. I have thought about staying home with the children full time, but I just know I need adults more than that in my life and it isn't as easy to hang around with the "mom's" since I am a man, so I keep busy with my career when it is convenient for the family. As your wife gets busier make sure you have things to do you enjoy...hobbies or friends you can hang out with. I find those invaluable but difficult to find especially when you are moving from place to place. What speciality is your wife going into? 3rd year residency slacks off a little bit and when they go into practice depends on the group size, population of the area, speciality, whether or not they do ob/gyn or ER... there are many variables. Wendy is a family physician and just recently gave up ob in order tohave more time with the family. She loves delivering babies and prenatal and post natal care but puts the family above that.
Talk with you soon!
http://web.prtel.com/stephens
http://www.mnmed.org/prmsa
http://www.aflac.com/StevenStephens56538-0278.cfm

Steve,

Hi....I'd love to hear about your experiences in Europe....My husband is German and we lived in Germany and Northern Ireland for about 5 years....so we could probably share some interesting stories!

Kris

I know about Europe from my wife's travels there and have met many, many people from various countries in Europe and have become very good friends with several. My travels have been to Japan, Okinawa, Guam, Vietnam, Thailand, Taiwan, Mexico and Canada. I do have a great interest in really knowing cultures and their origins. By the way, my degree is in Physics. Another science type. I worked aerospace mostly, the most famous project being the GPS satellites. LOL
http://web.prtel.com/stephens
http://www.mnmed.org/prmsa
http://www.aflac.com/StevenStephens56538-0278.cfm

Hello fellow 'Medical Husbands'
I'm glad I found you. This is just the kind of board I've been looking for. This forum validates my belief that spouses of female MD's or Med-Students have several unique circumstances that require specific focus and attention.
While I agree that it is unfair and chauvinistic to expect different (lower) levels of support from male spouses in medical families, there are certain considerations that should be addressed as specific to the male spouse circumstance. I do not intend to imply that female spouses have it any less rough than us men but do feel that the gender based issues that they face are easier to understand and cope with. As has been mentioned in other postings on this board, historically the role of the MD spouse has been held by the female. Therefore, the majority of the traditional support systems for MD spouses have been designed for women by women. As a result male conscious support dialogue has never had a chance to develop and the awareness of issues specific to male spouse remains low.
There is also the pervading fear of persecution as a chauvinist if a man speaks out about his 'special circumstance'. Let's face it. If a man says that it is very difficult to escape the stereotypical notion that he shouldn't be expected to become the perfect 'house husband' the day residency starts, somewhere there will be a wife saying..."why not? Women do it all the time."
But that is the key. Women do it all the time.
There is a convenience in this historical expectation that we all take for granted. Women are by nature and tradition the default homemakers of the world. For milleniums the woman has been thought of as the nurturing home maker and the husband the bread winner/bacon bringer. They don't have to make the gender specific leap across the chasm of thousands of years of traditional family configuration. When a man commits to the role of MD spouse he is suddenly challenged with the task of circumventing the natural order and flow of the family unit. It is as if the spirits of the millions of 'traditional' bread winning, bacon bringing men that have lived and died according to the natural laws of manhood are suddenly crying out that this is wrong! (Humorous exaggeration) This unnatural phenomenon is rebelled against by a part of the male psyche that most men admit is probably uncivilized and barbaric but still intact and undeniable. It is the Archie Bunker and Homer Simpson (douch!) part of our psyche that understands that we must now commit to taking out the garbage, cleaning the house, doing the laundry and cooking but would rather not.(but do) It is also this component of the male circumstance that, in retrospect, after hours of laundry and dusting, gives voice to the question we've all asked ourselves (quietly)...'hey...what's wrong with this picture? I should be on my boat in the Bahamas with a laid back chick sunbathing on the fantail, my parrot a guitar and a gallon of margaritas.'
To complicate things further, women in medicine face seemingly insurmountable obstacles that, I've heard implied, the men in their profession must construct (no formal maternity leave) as barriers to competition or some feeble attempt at creating job security. They just seem to have a harder roe to hoe than the men. This creates a whole slew of support challenges for the male spouse that the wives of MD's don't likely have to contend with. That is a different post though so I'll leave you with this.
We have some challenges unique to our circumstance. Women may say that assuming that women should fall into their role as model home maker because that is the female condition of tradition and historical expectation is chauvinistic and it is. But is it not a more inappropriate assumption to expect a man to be as prepared for the task?
I'm not saying that it is harder for a man to make the adjustment to MD spouse, just different. Very, very different.

This site for male spouses is essential .
My husband is NEIL and he will be here in a while.
Meanwhile I couldn't stop writing a few words to tell all the guys that PLEASE get together in this site because my hubby needs lots of help!!!!
I'm Veronica and I'll be going to med-school the following years. We have a 3y. old boy.
Neil (my husband) is very traditional and has never done "female homework" ....I don't know if he is going to support me as much as he says he will....
But at least he says he will...
I hope we get through this...

Thanks so much to the person who made up this site for male spouses of mommds.

Sincerely
Veronica & Neil

Veronica...I am glad that you found us....we do have several guys in the discussion group and at the boards...they usually end up moving on over to the general discussion area...but this forum is always here for them. I have a mrmd page that I am working on getting back up and running....

If you have any suggestions, please email me...

kmmath@hotmail.com

Sincerely,

Kris

I'm brand new to this website. I don't know why I didn't think of finding a spouses support forum like this before. I could have used it before while my wife was in med school, but I really need it now that she's in her first year of residency. I'm definitely struggling and could use support. On the other hand I have been through a lot with my wife in school and maybe can add some of my own insights.

My story in a nutshell: I'm 46, my wife is 41. We've both switched careers over the last 10 years. She into medicine. She's now in her first year of residency. I work full-time to support us, of course. And we have two children ages 13 and 10. She is doing her residency at a program about 100 miles from where we live. I see her about every 3 weeks for a day or so. She calls about every 3 or 4 nights. Therein's the problem. We have NO family life and no married life right now, and I feel very isolated and alone. I may have made a huge mistake for not pulling up stakes and moving to be near her through her residency program. I'd like people's opinions about this. I had many, many reasons for not doing so (I have nearly 20 years with my company, I didn't want to yank the kids out of their schools, I didn't think I could find as good a paying job there as where I am, etc etc etc).

We don't do very well staying connected with each other. I've asked and begged her to try harder but the fact is she's unable to do much more with us. I'm at wits end, trying to hang on here.

Anyway, I'm glad to find some folks in the same boat as I am. I look forward to a dialog with everybody.

Hi there! I'm so glad you found us. What a tough time for your whole family right now. Honestly, a lot to handle...

I have a few questions for you: How long is your wife's residency? What is she doing it in? Can you telecommute to your job (even if it is three days a week or something)? I'm sure the children really, really miss and need their mom. Why can't your wife come home on weekends when she is not on call?

My husband is a just-post-residency doctor in Canada, and after his five-year program, I can tell you that those years were important in our relationship. Important in that I let certain things slide that I shouldn't have. In the end, you need to keep an eye on these years as years you will never get back. That means having your wife understand that she is needed. That said, any resident I've known has always had precious little left over--usually just enough to crawl to the couch and fall asleep at 7:30 p.m. What a rough situation you are in right now. I feel for you...

Hi there. Wow, what a lot of big issues you have right now! I think that three years is a short enough tunnel to have some real fun with "counting down the time". For example, this July you can say "we're one third of the way there", and next Christmas, you can say "Halfway!"

Sounds like it makes sense for your daughter to stay put this year. Plus, I know from my husband's first year, that interns are hammered flat by the demands, stress, sheer volume and variety of work, and it's all done by them with minimal supervision (terrifying) and with no experience. So, it's stressful. Maybe it's good the kids don't witness their mom being so stressed in that first year. I have NO idea, just guessing. Sounds like it might be a good idea to commute next year and the year after. Would you sell your house or rent it out? You could also stay in town one or two nights in the week to lessen the commuting if you kids are old enough to be alone if your wife is late or something. Remember, by next Christmas, you're halfway there. And the upper years are better as your med spouse will have more confidence and more experience dealing with stresses. When it gets hard is when your residency becomes a marathon. Some do five years of residency and two of a fellowship (a dear friend of mine is in that situation). THAT is a grueling nightmare. But three years is doable. My husband did five, and it flew by. But I can't imagine not living under the same roof together. Even so, one of the things that suffers sometimes from the stress is intimacy. Sounds like you are struggling with that. I know what you mean and it's hard. But the best thing you can do is try and empathize with the sheer and unreasonable stress your wife is under. It's really insane. And you are not there to see it. Sounds like she is hiding out and not calling and telling you all the daily stories. But they are there, and they are snowing her under. I would suspect she is maybe trying to just grit her teeth and bear it. I have no idea, since I do not know her, but I think ALL residents are under incredible stress. How they deal with that stress is what varies tremendously...

I hope this helps. Please write more and we'll talk more about it.

One last thought: what would be harder? Dealing with the situation as it is, or driving a bunch more in the day and having "alone time" in the car as you do so? I would suspect that the normality of living together as a family might GIVE you wife some energy. I think ultimately, living apart for three years is too long. And if it hurts your wife and you and your relationship, your daughter will feel guilty about that. Kids adapt, and she'll likely do fine in school elsewhere. But what about you and your wife? Sounds like you need to find a way to be together!

If you feel comfortable, we'd love to know your first name. If not, that's OK too...

All my best,
Janet