Anyone out there following the election news?

I am ashamed to admit that I didn't watch either convention....I just don'e seem to be that interested this time around....feeling like a vote for either Democrats or Republicans is not going to make a bit of difference.

I don't think that I can vote for Gore based simply on the fact that he is so strongly for partial-birth abortion...which I find so utterly horrible that no other policy of his could be of remote interest.

Thomas' attending went to school with Bush and says that he was a "coke-head" at college and at the bottom of his class. ..hmmmm!

Anyone know anything about the other parties? Any thoughts?

Kristen

I ignore all the publicity crap. Does anyone truthfully believe that any politician has a good character? After all, they are actively fighting for the most powerful position in arguably the most powerful country in the world. Money and power corrupt, you know. I just pay attention to their politics. They all fight dirty so I am not too shocked about it. I just look at who has the closest political opinions to my own (which can be difficult to determine if there is too much pr to filter out). I've already made my decision. The person I would actually like to vote for had to drop out early in the primaries so I could either 1)write in his name or 2)vote for "second best" - the person who's views generally match my own. I watch a little of the conventions because I'm out of town and had nothing better to do when the kids were in bed! Everyone has very good speech writers!

Jennifer

We watched a little. It didn't help in what the vote would be though. I think I just sat there because there was nothing else better to do. A pretty sad thought. My husband has a bs in political science. He just laughs at what they say and do. He is really glad he found medicine! I have been to both parties web sites ~ does that count?

I just don't feel motivated or interested at ALL! I just think that it doesn't matter who we vote for ... nothing is going to change at all! And honestly, I think that both of the candidates are lousy....exactly what I felt 4 years ago too!

Do you know what I think....we should get a women in there to straighten out the mess created by all of these men over the last 200 years! ....no offense, Jason and all of the other guys!!

Kris

I have a feeling a woman will be running for Pres in the next election. I don't know if she'll be any better than the men, though. The thing elections can either be popularity contests or they can actually choose good leaders. The question is do the qualities that make one popular also make one a good leader? It is definitely true that our greatest presidents have had a good deal of inspiring charisma. But is charisma what makes a good leader? The problem I have is that just about every presidential candidate is very far removed from the way actual Americans live. Both Bush and Gore came from wealthy families, went to private schools, and have lived charmed lives. Both of them are career politicians who have never really held 9 to 5 jobs or struggled to feed their children. I'll bet neither of them ever had the problem of getting medical insurance. I laugh when I hear either of them describe themselves as defenders of the "people" since they haven't actually lived like the "people".

The issues today are mostly moral and fiscal ones such as abortion, social security, school voutures, and the death tax. There aren't that many bombs to drop on what every one believes on these subjects. I already know my opinions on all of these things so I know who best fits my views. It is definitely not an exciting election year, but it is still important if you feel strongly about any of the above issues. One important thing I just thought of is that the next prez may decide the makeup of the future Supreme Court. Now, that is food for thought.

I have to say that if a woman ran I might be more skeptical of her than any man. This is why: Would she be running on the sensationalism of being a woman? Would she actually know what she was doing or have leadership ablilities or would she be thrown into the arena because she was a woman? Would women vote for her simply based on her gender? I think a more interesting option would be two women running against each other, then we might see if women behaved any differently in presidential elections!

!

Well, the only platforms that I have heard (and I may not be listening well!!!!!!) are that Bush is for school vouchers (something that wouldn't be necessary if we would improve on our public schools!) and that Gore will support partial birth abortion (I will spare you and not go there!). They just both seem to be..drips..to me. I can't get excited about either of them. It seems that this race will probably end up playing out in the realm of name recognition and popularity....It is too bad that the reform party couldn't get its poop together....they held two different conventions....so that doesn't speak well for them in terms of getting it together either.

IT just seems like nothing will change.

I do see your point, Jason about Bush changing from when he was younger...but how do you know for sure? I am certainly not one to cast stones...seeing as I live in a glass house of my own making, but it would just be nice if we could get someone in office who was really passionate about changing this country for the better and less interested in money and power.

I don't really think that religion belongs in the race...I am shocked by the coverage that Gore chose a Jewish Man to run with him...so what...what does that have to do with anything that is relevant to this country? It seems really biggoted to me.

As to a woman running...I don't see it happening for a really long time and I find that to be unfortunate...When Elizabeth Dole was considering running her bio was published in our local paper and it was quite impressive. But many men that I talked to were totally ignorant of it: "she doesn't even have a degree"...which she does...forget the fact that we have had male presidents without a degree....I think that there is just too large of a bias or fear in our society...I wouldn't have any trouble endorsing a solid female candidate...and I don't really think that I would distrust her motives of obtaining power or anything...

well, that is enough babble for one day!

The school voucher thing has me troubled. What happens to every tom, dick, and devera that keeps their kids at home to "teach" them. I get money to sit on my butt at home and "teach" my kids!! Sounds good to me ~ how many others will do this to their children and eventually teach them just what I would mine, RECESS! What is going to happen to the system when all these homeschooled kids can't make it? I have a problem with this because there are thugs everywhere just waiting for free $$$. I can see them coming out of the woodwork to "homeschool" their kids. I too think that the funds should be deposited into the public school system. I would agree to a voucher system if ALL children receiving voucher $$ each semester had to take a test and prove that they were indeed being taught something.

I'm not in any way knocking homeschooling. If parents have enough dedication and can teach their children then by all means teach them. There are very very smart kids out there and I can only compliment the parents as to the job that they have done. And, like I said earlier I would not have any problem with given government funds to those that prove they do actually teach there children.

as far as the crack head issue--he was young and young people--some of us --do dumb things and I won't hold that against him. I am very worried about his affiliation to the christian right wing. I have no problem with anyone practicing any religion they want I just don't want it in my politics--I have lived under that sort of "compassionate conservatism" and I can tell you the term is purely BS. If you are not their kind of conservative you can look forever for compassion.

I find their platform to be a joke. This is not to say that I was all that stunned by Gore, btu he at least has drawn a more definite line between him and the Christian coalition. Just my unique background makes me very nervous about that. Then again he did choose Joseph Lieberman and he doesn't much care for my kind but at least he is the VP and not the potential top dog.

And by the way I take no offense to the comments about men and the presidency. I have been saying for years that we need to pass a law that says men can no longer run for President. Men have been in the presidency for 220 + years, and we have grown and thrived as a nation, but at this time if we want to see substantial change--I mean real change we need a woman in the White House. They have been talking about term limits, why not Gender limits.

Well, I have to say I am probably the most conservative person I have ever met. I own a gun, have shot guns since I was 3 years old (my father took me to shoot a pistol to intentionally scare me out of ever touching one without him around - it worked), I will have my permit to carry concealed very shortly. A gun has saved my life on more than one occasion. I have to say Kristen's opinions on abortion are probably very similar to my own - she seems to be stifling a great deal of emotion on the subject. I agree with school vouchers and will probably be homeschooling my kids. I would love to abolish the complex tax system we have and stop seeing friends' and relatives' small businesses struggle due to the enormous taxes they must pay. I hate to give a third of my income away to politicians! I am against affirmitive action (as are all my minority friends including Hispanic husband). I am against the death tax. As you can see I get along pretty well down in my home (TX) but probably would be labeled a horrible maniac up East or in CA. So, you can guess who I would vote for in the election, but the man I really wanted to vote for was from Utah and dropped out of the primaries a while back. (Ya'll probably don't even remember his name). I don't want to start any debates on my beliefs but I just thought I'd give you all a nice chuckle over my opinions.

Voting for a leader is an interesting privilege that we have and have had for many decades. The vast majority of the world still doesn't really have this privilege as even some democracies have rigged elections. I think even if both the people running are boring I feel very thankful that I can really choose who I would like to lead an entire country. And by the way, our current prez isn't boring, so do we really want another "interesting" one like him?

Jennifer

(no, I don't like militias, the confederate flag, or violent crimes against anyone)
Edited by JenniferLR at: 8/24/00 8:16:38 pm

Jennifer...I was beginning to worry that you and I were on diff. sides of the fence re: partial birth abortion...glad to hear we aren't. And you are right...stifling my negative response is right....if I got going on my feelings on that....well, I am afraid that no one would forgive me~~

Now guns, Jennifer, tsk, tsk.... I totally totally totally disagree with you because of the amount of gun violence today in this country. I come from a different perspective having lived in Europe for so many years where guns where simply not available...and the sheer quantity of murders, etc....is dramatically less than here...not to mention the accidental shootings. Unfortunately, too many Americans are simply uneducated morons (not you) and don't know how to accept the responsibility of guns...and so I feel that they shouldn't be allowed to have them...there are just too many senselfess gun-related deaths! Just an example...a few weeks ago, my step-brother's best friend was shot to death while he was driving his car in Washington State...he had just graduated from the Naval Academy and begun working in his first job...he was gunned down by two white men whose excuse was boredom.....see, too many whackos out there ruin it for the non-whackos.

As to home-schooling ( I am trying to hit all of the biggees) I think I have to stand with Devera on this one...my children would definately be enjoying too much recess...I just don't see myself in the role of their teacher in the traditional sense....I am mommy...with the snuggles and the loveys and yes, the discipline...but I don't want that role too....not that I wouldn't be capable...somtimes I think more capable than some of the teachers when I look at their meager educational backgrounds...but I do alot of educational stuff with my children....all kinds of crafts, etc... that have an educational theme....I just know that I wouldn't stick with it and they would get the short end of the stick.....but at least they would have lots of recess!!! I have met many home-schoolers that have tried to convert me...it is almost like a religious movement or something around here...but I just don't think that I have the qualifications to teach them...knowing how to read for example does not make one necessarily know how to teach it! I have been working with my son all summer on different words with very little success. He has been in Kindergarten for 1 WEEK and he is writing words on his own....the teacher is just really talented and knew what works with children of that age...I don't want my kids to be my guinea pigs and I htink that we both benefit from the time for ourselves...my children LOVE school and I wouldn't take this time of independence away from them as I see them blossom and grow.

just my .02...hope it doesn't offend!!!

Kris

I thought I would cover all of the biggies myself, though I am much more long winded. I just thought I would relate a story.

When I was pregnant with my twins I had three other dear friends (all med student wives) pregnant at the same time. I had just recently found out I was having twins and was receiving the most sympathy of all of us when I got some startling news: My friend "Carol" who was also pregnant had found out on sono that her baby had anancephaly. I hadn't a clue as to what this was until my husband showed me a picture of a stillborn baby with the deformity. I felt awful, I couldn't talk to her, after all I had two babies and she was going to lose her one (anancephaly is incompatible with life as it means the absence of a great portion of the brain and the back of the skull).

Carol's ob advised Carol and her husband on their options. This child wouldn't live very long if born and would probably be miscarried anyway. Carol and "Ben" had a decision to make: to abort or carry to term. They talked and cried about it, discussed it with family and clergy, and prayed about it. They felt the best option was to carry to term. The pregnancy went fine, though Carol was grieving when she thought she'd be celebrating. The baby was stillborn. She held him and named him and then they buried him.

Why did they make this decision? Well, it was a religious decision to some extent. We believe in a premortal existence and the necessity of obtaining a physical body for eternal progression. This means there are a certain number of spirits waiting to receive a body. Who would I be to deny this based upon my own discomforts? Carol knew that there was a spirit that had wanted to come to Earth. This child was alive inside of her, his heart beat, he had a brainstem which worked, he grew, took in nutrience, etc. We also believe in eternal families. This means that even if Carol was not given the opportunity to raise her baby in this life, she could still have the opportunity to love him and raise him after death. She was his mommy forever.

I don't know Carol and Ben's political opinions too well. I do know that I admire the immense courage they had in making a difficult decision. They didn't pick the easy way - physically or emotionally or financially. They felt that it would be wrong to end an innocent life that wasn't in pain and didn't know it was "damaged goods". None of us can really know what our initial reactions will be to good or bad news. But we can make decisions in advance over what we generally feel is right or wrong. I can say that with this in mind, my decision would probably have been the same as Carol's.

I feel it is an honor to carry another life, another human being, within me. What mother hasn't wondered when she first felt her baby kick her? Who cannot be impressed when they see the tiny heartbeat of a two month old in embryo fluttering like a butterfly's wings on sonogram (as I had the opportunity to with my first)? Who can deny the fact that babies only a few weeks old in the womb have measurable brain waves? If kicking, heartbeats, and brainwaves don't prove life I don't know what does!!(I guess that makes me dead, too!!)

I know that some mothers in moments of extreme desperation, psychological torment, and perhaps mental illness kill their newborns. Some would say it would be better if they had just had an abortion to begin with. I am of the opinion that these sweet little beings should not be held accountable for their parent's mistakes and should have the opportunity to be adopted by those who would love them as they deserve. I think the answer is easier, more stable and permanent adoptions.

I don't think this opinion I have is offensive to any decent human being. I feel compassion for women who agonize over increased responsibilities but I feel much more compassion for an innocent who has no say in the matter because he is still on his mother's life support.

I agree that there are a lot of idiots out there! I have a feeling though that if we were to take away all of the activities that could harm others from the people we think would harm then no one would really be allowed to own much more than a stick of gum (and even then someone would probably choke on it). I am still mad about the driver that almost ran into me and my kids today after he looked directly at us. On the highway going about 65 a collision would've killed someone! In my opinion that man should not have alicense! I also get a kick from the bumper stickers I keep seeing that say, "stupid people shouldn't breed". Now there's an idea that would result in a population of zero in about eight decades. I guess my point is that you can't always determine who is the guy who is going to stab you or who is going to get drunk and drive the car or who is going to take a gun and kill their exwife. These are all hindsight events. So, the solution is take away all guns, right? Well, if we could take away all guns from the criminals (which I have been saved from by guns before) I would be all for it. The fact is this isn't going to happen. Gun violence does happen in other countries, including Europe. And I know that certain countries in Europe not only allow gun ownership, they encourage it. The other problem is that in America the tradition is based on the fierce defense of democracy (witness our elections every four years). Americans in revolutionary times righty held a huge distrust of everyone and wanted their guns to protect them. You don't have that rebel frontiersmen mentality forming the basis of most European cultures. This isn't something easily erased over a few decades. It is a complex topic.

Let me tell you my experience with guns. My father is a gun "enthusiast". He finds their mechanics and the whole physics behind them fascinating just as he does cars. He knows everything about them and owns them. When I was born he was petrified that I would somehow accidentally hurt myself. He took me to his workshop at the age of three (old enough to remember it to this day - vividly). He put headphones over my ears to protect them, put what seemed to be a huge gun in my hands and helped me pull the trigger. I remember the noise being scary. Then he showed me the stack of phone books and the tree stump that he fired through. He said if a bullet does this to a tree stump, what will it do to a person? I learned very well that day that a gun is a weapon.

My father repeated this with all three of my siblings and will do so with my own children. My life was saved as a baby and as a young woman from people who would do me harm because a gun was simply flashed. My father taught me you never draw a gun unless you WILL use it. Another lesson learned. My father has taught these lessons about the dangers of guns to Boy Scouts for years. He is an inspiration to me in his wisdom. I think my greatest horror would be to have someone break into my house and I would be defenseless in the dark with my children until the police arrived. A lot can happen in two or three minutes. And these things do happen even in the nicest neighborhoods, but especially where I came from.

I acknowledge that a lot, perhaps most, people in the world, much less America are idiots when it comes to responsibility - especially over things that could kill others or themselves. Unfortunately, it is not as easy as saying, "We will make a new law that will do this and this." The laws today aren't even effective. The American Medical Association just published a study on the effects of the Brady law. It had no positive effect on violent crime. Violent crime spawns from things other than guns. If someone wants to rape you they will use whatever means necessary. Do you think the world was a peaceful place in the Middle Ages before they had guns?

I don't buy the argument that machine guns are for hunting, but the antigun lobby has propagated huge lies of their own on guns. A lot of people believe it because they know nothing about guns. One example is the recent spate in CA over certain guns being made illegal because they had parts that looked menacing to the lawmakers. They didn't know that these appendages didn't affect the firing capabilities of the guns, nor did they increase or decrease crimes. When people just let a group of politicians from any side just feed them piles of things because they don't know any better it propagates error. You have to know what you are talking about before you can know how to solve a problem.

Perhaps if all Americans were required to know all about guns (as many Swiss and Israeli people do because of the compulsory military service in these countries) less accidental violence would take place because people would know what I knew at three - that guns can end a life. And perhaps less violent crime would take place if the criminals knew that their potential victim was likely a person with a gun THAT KNEW HOW TO USE IT! As I said it is a complex issue that requires more than passing "Oh! That's awful!" I think that you are right, Kirsten in that most Americans are uneducated morons and need to be taught to accept the responsiblities of guns. And by the way, the senseless gun related deaths were recently proven to be "accidentally" doubled in number by the liberal special interest group that started screaming them. You have to check everyone's statements when you are discussing topics that people will lie about.