thoughts on being one of "those" parents

[Flynn]

As a former educator I have ideas about education and parenting. I've learned as a fairly new parent (see signature) what I thought I knew, and what I actually KNOW are two very different things.

Parenting is easily the most humbling job in the world. WOW it's hard!

Some of the recent parenting posts has caused me to think about this -- PLUS one of my friends who I think is an excellent parent is having a really hard time with one of her daughter's teachers. She's asked for my help from the "teacher's perspective."

As a teacher I "knew" the "red flag parents" who had reputations of being very protective, argumentative, difficult or just plain mean where I taught. It was common knowledge what parents you had to be careful with and what ones you could just be fair and let the chips fall where they may. I taught in three different schools during my short career (before I had my own kids) and this theme was consistent with all three schools. I remember making a mental note as a married person without kids -- I did NOT want to be a "red flag parent!"

When I was a teacher, I tried EXTREMELY hard to treat all parents the same -- regardless of reputation -- until I had first hand experience with them.

So here's my question:
When does advocating for your child OR communicating with a child's teacher go from being conscientious to making you a "red flag parent?"
Obviously it depends on a lot of variables. I get that. However, pissing off your kids' teacher is not a good plan and should be reserved for a last resort meeting where an administrator is present.

I have no first hand experience with this as a parent. My kids are young and my daughter has had excellent pre-school teachers so far. I do have experience with this situation as a teacher -- a very different viewpoint than a parent.

Perhaps some of the vetran parents can comment??? I love reading everyone hash their opinions out. It helps me streamline my own views -- and helps me determine if my ideas come from an emotional place or a logical place. :|

I think I have redeemed myself, but I really started off on the wrong foot with DD's elementary school. They had a poorly planned out "kindergarten roundup" and sign-up process for all day kindergarten (limited number of spots). The plan was different than communicated when I called a week prior to the meeting and different than presented on the school district website. Bottom line, I missed out on a guaranteed spot because of it and I was irritated. I....sent a letter to the superintendents office telling them they needed to better communicate and present their policies across schools.

Honestly, I was not looking for anyone to fix it and move me on the list. I figured it was a done deal and I'd let things play out. It was the disorganization and poor communication that just pissed me off. BUT, I think that because the way I approached it they assumed I wanted a fix and to be soothed, probably like a "red flag" parent.

I learned my lesson that this is not the best way to deal with things. I could tell the principal remembered me but I think we are all better now.

[DCJenn]

Flynn-

"those parents"occur in social services, too. Particularly in the the MR/DD field and it is a tightrope.

My professional experience has been that parents want their children to learn and have positive experiences BUT most of all they want them to be safe. I think what has happened over the years is that the definition of safety has grown.

I think there's a certain mentality that we should protect our children from disappointment and loss at all costs and shelter them from 'the Real World' as longas possible.

I can understand wanting to do that but I think it makes for woefully underprepared adults.

On the opposite end of the spectrum we have the parents who turn their kids into the sports star and beauty queens because it's their deal not the kids.

Interesting times we live in.

Jenn

PS- my worst story about PITA parents were the 75 yo parents who insisted that I continue to attempt to teach their son to tie his shoes. I finally said, "look, he can get velcro shoes. I can't teach him in one year what people have been trying to do for 50 years. Let's focus on what he CAN do rather than what he can't." My boss was FURIOUS with me but I didn't care. Sam was NEVER going to get it so move on!!!

[Flynn]

Flynn-

"those parents"occur in social services, too. Particularly in the the MR/DD field and it is a tightrope.

My professional experience has been that parents want their children to learn and have positive experiences BUT most of all they want them to be safe. I think what has happened over the years is that the definition of safety has grown.

I think there's a certain mentality that we should protect our children from disappointment and loss at all costs and shelter them from 'the Real World' as longas possible.quote]

Very interesting point! It seems that there are a percentage of the parenting population who want their child's self-esteem to be "safe" and ignore reality. The real world will be a rude awakening for these kids! These kids eventually suffer because the parents don't have the tools to balance helping their kids through the tough times of growing up.

Sigh. This is such a complicated topic. I'm sure I'll have my "red flag" moments during my kids' education but hopefully I'll be a big enough person to admit my mistakes and move on with the other adults in my kids' lives.

When I was a teacher, one of the most memorable moments I had was with a VERY DIFFICULT parent. After insulting me AGAIN, she eventually burst into tears, apologized over and over, told me her son hates her, likes his step-mom better, and she has no idea how to handle it.

I was 27 and just married. I had NO IDEA what to say. I think I handled it okay but it really taught me that difficult people are usually covering up a bigger hurt than their kids' grade!!!! I apparently reminded this woman of her husband's second wife. He had a 17 year old son and married a woman who was in her late twenties! I eventually had a great relationship with this woman because deep down, she really wanted to help her son -- even if this meant disciplining him due to poor effort and poor grades in my class. I think we both learned a lot from each other.

Thanks for the responses!

Chris and my mom thought the teacher may have been being too hard on him and that I should talk to her about it. Umm, no, he needs to follow the rules and in this case know that we are backing his teacher.

That's pretty much the tack I've taken w/Jacob & behavior problems at school. I'm pleased to say they've completely stopped since late September, and his evaluations have been excellent. Of course, the problems were probably just him taking awhile to adjust to school and who knows what other issues we'll have down the road. Either way, my initial plan will be to back the teacher. I will give the teacher the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of the year, and we'll see how it goes from there.

I think *most* teachers have the kids' best interest at heart. I had some stinkers along the way for sure, including a great one that turned out to be sans moral compass and slept w/then married my dad. I don't envy the job they do -- when I have a hard time managing my 2 kids, I shudder at the thought of being in a room w/15 - 20 of them makes my head spin.

Along the lines of being a "red flag" parent....geez, did we get off to a rough start. I had another issue before starting school with one of DD's future classmates. This little girl had bit her once and tried two times after that (she lunged at her with an open mouth!). I knew I needed to give the teacher a heads up about this. I approached it as a "just want to let you know" and that went really well. The teacher made sure they were not in the same groups together and kept an eye on them on the playground. I think the "just to let you know" approach was a good way to start out on things.

Another thing I think has been helpful is volunteering in the classroom. It is a nice way to get to know the teacher and be a familiar face. When I need to ask about something or she needs to address an issue, it helps that we have had other interactions and conversations.

I am on year 2 and this might be my title for the next 10 years.

[Sheherezade]

Well.....here, you need to volunteer but not *too* much. That suggests an inability to let go. I guess. It is a tricky calculation - and it usually doesn't have so much to do with grades - but access and policy making.

I admit I resent having to manage all my interactions with the school to assure I don't step over bounds or become a red flag parent. It's annoying. I'm not one of those parents.....but I know many on the border. Interestingly, they are usually OK. They just WILL take an issue to the mat if needed. Is that so bad? I can see if it focused on your child's advancement or grades, but the issues I've seen are more along the lines of "healthy foods in the cafeteria" and "math curicculum is not challenging".

This is the first district I've been in with lots of "those" parents and I really feel the rift here. Sadly, many of "those" parents also keep the school going through at least a quarter million a year in cash donations, volunteer staffing of every peripheral service that the school has cut and strong support for any tax levy. They have money, time and energy - and they want to be heard. Interestingly, our district has an ever increasing number of students heading to private schools (it's at 30% now). The reason many parents cite is the lack of respect given parents and their concerns by the school system. The current target of this energy is our school board.....which may be voted out if they don't change things soon.

[mommax3]

I also think that volunteering is a great way to interact with teachers and let them see you when you are your normal self and not just when you are in "momma bear" mode. I have never been a room mom, but I have graded papers, run copies, subbed, chaperoned field trips, etc. ever since my kids started school.

Along the same lines as what jesher and snowWhite said, I *never* put down a teacher in front of my kids, even if I disagree. I talk to the teacher first if there is an issue, and I try to get my ducks in a row and know *exactly* what I am going to say before I have that talk. I have found it WAY too easy to ramble and get off on tangents when it comes to my kids. I try to suggest solutions and work with the teacher to find something that will (hopefully) address and fix the problem I am having. And I let them know that I back them!

I think crossing the line involves wanting special treatment for your child in some way. (At least that is what would make *me* think a parent had crossed the line.) I don't mean special treatment for an extenuating circumstance, like a hard situation at home or something, but special treatment just because a parent asked for it.

Of course there are always people in teaching (just like any other profession) that have so many of their own issues that it is impossible for them to deal with others rationally, but I really do think that most teachers appreciate being treated like a human being first and a teacher second, and if you do that, you have nothing to fear. Don't interact with teachers only when you are unhappy! That is no fun for anyone.

Sally

[PrincessFiona]

Re: thoughts on being one of "those" parents

As a teacher I "knew" the "red flag parents" who had reputations of being very protective, argumentative, difficult or just plain mean where I taught. It was common knowledge what parents you had to be careful with and what ones you could just be fair and let the chips fall where they may.

And I think that is your answer, Flynn.

I know that even though I do let it all hang out here, that I am very polite and respectful towards the teachers and administrators. I don't call often, don't complain and try and volunteer when possible. Our district does not allow room parents, btw.

When there are issues that can't be avoided, I do think it's important to address them...but..without being defensive or blaming.

I'm sure you all think that the schools cringe when they see me walking through the door, but they don't. Everything that I've said to you about the science fair projects, my disappointments and upset....is what I've said to you all in confidence. I only discuss these concerns with a few other parents here...and one of them is our pediatrician...she has the same exact concerns for her 6th grader and she brought it up to me....validation.

It's a fine line though...because what one teacher might interpret as argumentative or *difficult* may not be interpreted that way by another. I agree with everyone else that the more involved you are in the classroom and activities the better a teacher will know you and the easier it is to address certain issues.

kris