mom's group issue

[Flynn]

I've been graciously adopted in our new location by a mom's group about 8 people strong. There are usually things to do with them once a week if you choose. It's been a great social outlet for me and the kids and I have made three friends I like enough to just hang out with. The entire group of women have all been very generous to me and my kids.

Here's a bit of background....one of the mom's (NOT one of the three I really click with) has a child (he's three) who does violent things to the other kids at least once a playdate. His mom KNOWS her child is an issue and yet she chats and doesn't really watch him UNTIL he does something.

Here are just a few things I've seen him do to OTHER kids:

• tackle an 18 month old and bang his head on the concrete floor
  randomly pick up a toy, walk across the room to a girl playing quietly in the corner and bashing her on the head with said toy
  pushing kids to the ground at random - -running across the playground to push certain kids
  pulling hair
  throwing rocks AT kids
  Etc.

Yesterday, this child pulled my four year old from a climbing wall at the park. He pulled her shirt until she fell off which was three good tugs that took about two seconds. Another mom (not the parent) did her best to help but was one step too late. DD fell about three feet on her side and banged her shoulder. I unfortunately was dealing with my son who skinned his knee seconds before the incident. As soon as this kid showed up I was watching him like a hawk.

The boy was put in his mom's car for a "time out" and then allowed to play with the other kids as usual.

The situation with my daughter was the "third warning" which was why he got put in the car. Only on the third warning did the kid get more than a verbal repremand.

I have as much trouble with how this mom is handling things as I do the behavior. Her child is habitually violent this way. Do you think he's really SCREAMING for attention? HMMMMMM??????????

If this child does something like this to one of my kids again I'm going to say something to the mom. This is just not appropriate. The other mom's know it's an issue but if they say anything they KNOW their friendship will be over. The group is torn on how to deal with this issue.

I will warn my three good friends in the group so they have a heads up if this happens again.

MY actions might fracture the group but this kid is a menace and the mom is clueless. I'm the "new girl" though and it might not go over well with some of the moms.

What would you do?

[DCJenn]

bash the mom in the head with a toy? no? tempting though, isn't it?

Do you think it's an issue of attention seeking behavior or is the cause something more? (putting on your teacher hat)

I would say something but frame it as gently as possible, as I'm sure you have had parents who 'know' something is wrong w/ their child but who for whatever reason just can't or won't face it.

Maybe ask her if everything is OK at home because Johnny seems so angry all of the time.

Jenn

I would say something but frame it as gently as possible, as I'm sure you have had parents who 'know' something is wrong w/ their child but who for whatever reason just can't or won't face it.

I agree with that approach.

I've had this happen with a friend here. I don't see her as much because of it and usually try to see her when our kids are in school to minimize their interactions. Her almost 5 yo daughter bit my daugther once (*hard*) and made two more attempts after that. After the second attempt, I ended any interaction and the attempt after that happened when we saw them in the street. Anyway, it is better now and I do let them spend time together. As much as the mom's lack of attention to addressing this (dd was having a hard time coping that day ) frustrated the heck out of me, I also know that she was at a loss as to what to do for this kid.

[Rapunzel]

Welllll, as a rule I do not discipline another parent's child when the parent is present - not ever.

However, if this woman is really not disciplining her own child (and, at the age of three I think the only thing "wrong" with this child is he is spoiled and getting away with murder because he can ) then I would step in. If she doesn't get the hint then you WOULD have to bash her over the head with a toy. Seriously, I would stay right beside my children at the next playdate and the very second the other child began to do something inappropriate or dangerous I would step in and reprimand him (even send him to a bench to sit).

Yes, under normal circumstances you just do NOT do something like that. But, this isn't exactly normal. This parent doesn't seem to understand some basic ideas behind "discipline".

I agree with Jenn. I've done that with the friend I mentioned. Normally I would always defer to the parent if they are present but since she typically doesn't do anything, I do. It works.

I will address other kids if their behavior is a danger to mine or others. I'm sorry - your kid doesn't get a free shot just b/c you're sitting there not paying attention. I also make it perfectly clear to other parents that if they catch MY kids doing something that would / could harm themselves or another kid, they are totally free to address it w/my kid, or let me know. Simple behavioral issues (whining, not listening, etc.) I don't touch ... but if something could be dangerous - I speak up.

That said -- if this mom's group was around before you, and the others know / agree about the issues but have chosen to ignore them in favor of harmony, it may be your responsibility to step out. Fracturing the group b/c you aren't happy with how something goes, when the other members were comfortable with working around it just doesn't sit well with me. If it had been me (in that situation), I probably would have said something then, and then chosen not to return.

[Flynn]

That said -- if this mom's group was around before you, and the others know / agree about the issues but have chosen to ignore them in favor of harmony, it may be your responsibility to step out. Fracturing the group b/c you aren't happy with how something goes, when the other members were comfortable with working around it just doesn't sit well with me. If it had been me (in that situation), I probably would have said something then, and then chosen not to return.

I don't disagree with this. I almost said something -- I chose to leave instead which definitely WAS a statement. The problem is that I'm sure everyone noticed except the mom in question.

I think I'll adopt what Jenn (TR) suggested. When the boy in question is around I will be EXTRA careful and nip things in the bud OR I just won't go to large group things where he might be there.

My kids don't like him and communicate how he makes "bad mean choices" all the time. They are skiddish around him and while they aren't mean to him, they avoid him. It's a sticky situation.

[Deebs]

As a mom, I actually would want another parent to discipline my child if I didn't see the behavior or react right away. Granted, most of my friends know what I ignore and tolerate and how I discipline my child, but short of hitting my child, I think it's appropriate for other adults to tell my child their behavior is unacceptable.

I don't know what I'd do with this mother. It almost sounds like this child has ODD or another issue going on, more extreme than just wanting attention. If it were me, I would be concerned, especially if I had more than just my one child to keep an eye on.

[Flynn]

I don't know what I'd do with this mother. It almost sounds like this child has ODD or another issue going on, more extreme than just wanting attention. If it were me, I would be concerned, especially if I had more than just my one child to keep an eye on.

Yep. I think the child is screaming for attention any way he can get it BUT when he does hurt a kid he does it with a smile on his face and only get's upset when he gets a timeout. It's a bit freaky.

This mom KNEW he had behavior issues and chose to have another kid so she has a 6 year old, an almost three year old, and a 9 month old. I think she has WAAAY over extended herself and she's doing the best she can BUT it's hard to be understanding when your kid is getting walloped! :|

[diggitydot]

I have a couple friends who are utterly clueless when it comes to their cute little tax deductions misbehaving. I have NO problem saying something to the kid if the parent doesn't catch it and the kid is doing something stupid/dangerous. Usually, the parent will then deal with it once it's brought to their attention that their kid is totally out of control. For some reason, some of my friends just don't notice when they're kids are being total cretins.

Personally, I think it's all about boundaries. If the offending party has never really had distinct boundaries telling him what is appropriate and what isn't, he's going to act inappropriately ALL the time. And if mom and dad aren't good about reinforcing the wimpy boundaries they have established, the kid won't ever get a clue.

[Phoebe]

That is a tough situation. We had a similar incident in my neighborhood playgroup a couple of years ago and it was never the same. One mom had no backbone when it came to her two boys and let a lot of bad things go like her son throwing a rock at another girl's head right in front of his mom. One particularly uptight parent who often puts her foot in her mouth spoke up about the lack of discipline and my neighbor felt like she was accused of being a bad mom. It wasn't pretty.

I will speak nicley to kids if they are hurting themselves or someone else and don't mind having the same done for my kids. Sometimes I may have my back turned helping one child while my other one gets out of eyesight for a minute. I do try really hard to watch my own kids and make sure they are safe and treat others nicely.

I think it may be hard to single out the mom, but I agree that her child shouldn't get away with such unacceptable behavior. Sorry I have no advice, just sympathy.

Jennifer

One mom had no backbone when it came to her two boys and let a lot of bad things go like her son throwing a rock at another girl's head right in front of his mom. One particularly uptight parent who often puts her foot in her mouth spoke up about the lack of discipline and my neighbor felt like she was accused of being a bad mom.

Truth hurts. She IS a bad mom if she is letting her kid get away with throwing a rock at someone's head. Sorry, I get SO irritated with parents who let their kids run wild. SO irritated.

Flynn, you seem like a ballsy gal (nothing but props to you! I wish I had more oomph!) and I would suggest that you say something to her. Maybe ask her about how SHE is doing and she might just tell you that she is completely stressed out. . .blah blah. . .and you can talk about her son. If nothing changes, I would probably stop going to the meetings/events.

I'm a control freak about my kids. I have no problem jumping in and redirecting another kid if they're hurting one of mine. But I try to diffuse the situation a little as well, something like "hey hey hey, I wouldn't let Ryan grab your toy away from you, so you need to wait until he's done with it and then I'm sure he'll give it straight to you, okay, sweetie? Now come here and show me how fast you can run across the street..." joking
But I also encourage other parents to step in if my tigers are getting out of hand as well.

-J

I'm a control freak about my kids. I have no problem jumping in and redirecting another kid if they're hurting one of mine. But I try to diffuse the situation a little as well, something like "hey hey hey, I wouldn't let Ryan grab your toy away from you, so you need to wait until he's done with it and then I'm sure he'll give it straight to you, okay, sweetie? Now come here and show me how fast you can run across the street..." joking
But I also encourage other parents to step in if my tigers are getting out of hand as well.

-J

I think Jodi had to do a bit of that redirecting w/mine when they were visiting here. (my guys were thrilled to have guests). I concur that she's got great techique for it (where I'll usually just yell something like "Hey! Knock it off!"), and I'd follow her lead.

[PrincessFiona]

No one will like my response. (Thank gawd I'm in hiding this month :> )

I've been on both ends of this issue and I think it's tough either way. When my child (Amanda) was the one misbehaving, there were times that I let things go out of desperation to have adult conversation. I tried to catch as much as I could, but there were times that I got so engrossed in something that someone was saying that I didn't watch closely enough and she threw sand at someone or once...knocked over a much younger child intentionally.

I did eventually stop going to playgroups because I couldn't enjoy talking with the other moms...Amanda needed too much of my attention and I was glad to give that to her away from the gossiping etc. No offense...I'm posting on the fly and am not implying anything about anyone here. I just knew that I didn't want my parenting skills or my daughter put out on the chopping block. Really, I find that in a playgroup situation, all of us moms should be stepping in and helping each other out in a non-judgeental way...if we women are all getting together with our kids so that they can play and we can talk....well....it's incumbant upon us all to help each other out.

I have also been on the receiving end of these things. Aidan is very gentle and has been in several situations where children have just taken his toys, hit him over the head....you name it...and...if I catch it, I pretty much use my frame of reference from my experience with Amanda....and...I will say something like "Oh My. I think Aidan had that car...but I bet we could find another one" (redirect, redirect) or if there is hitting, I will step in and say something like "ooops, no hitting"... and direct the child in a different direction.

And really...I don't judge the other mom because she is probably just exhausted, burned out or tired...and I've been there. It takes a village....and really, there isn't much of a village anymore.

I don't know whether or not this busy little booger's behavior falls out side fo the range of normal....but just imagine how tired the mom must be ...

kris