is your child gifted?

[DCJenn]

Is my child gifted? I have no idea. After spending a lifetime in the field of developmental disabilities where everyone is labeled based on nothing but a score on an IQ test I have a visceral reaction to the mere thought.

People have a myriad of talents. Some people are able to find their own way. Some people need to be pushed. Some people never want to find their potential. Some people have cultural, socioeconomic, parental, etc. barriers that cannot be overcome.

Labels suck.

and if I EVER hear again, "she has the mentality of a ____ year old" it will be too soon.

Jenn

I agree with a lot of what you say, Lily. I think that more than teaching to the middle, there is teaching to the test and that standardized testing can't pick up on or encourage creative or critical thinking.

As I think about the students that were in AP classes with me (maybe not gifted, but some of them likely to be) I can't say that all would have been great leaders just by virtue of being gifted. Nor would they have been with the right classes. I'm not toeing the "everyone can be a leader" line here because I don't agree with that either.

[SuzySunshine]

I will also add that I'm sure DH is much smarter then I and his parents never had him tested so he doesn't have that label. My parents were young, I think they thought we were in a good school system and they were pressured. Before I would put my children through that I would make sure the program is actually benefitting them in someway.

I actually think more about the pressure I'll subconsciously place on Daegan to be smart.

This is pretty much where my mind is. DH (and his family) especially. Intelligence is SO valued in their culture, and while I certainly value it and acknowledge that yeah, we're a bit ahead of the curve in that respect - it's not my end all / be all. Both DH and MIL tried to get me to lean on the schools to let Quinn in to kindergarten this year even though his birthday isn't until late Sept. My IL's have "ranked" all of their family by smartest to dumbest. DH is considered the dumber of the two brothers. Their mom is considered the smartest on her side, their dad is considered the dumbest on his side. They see no problem with this. They tried - once - to tell us that Quinn is smarter than Jacob, and dh jumped down their throats.

Yes, I know my kids are clever. Jacob is already showing an aptitude for math that scares me. Both have vocabularies that *occasionally* throw the neighbors for a loop. But first and foremost they are kids. If the schools suggest testing for the gifted programs, I'll evaluate the situation at that time. I think the worst thing in the world in school is to be bored, so if a gifted program were to offer something that would be more stimulating then I'd want to take advantage of it.

I was tested and allowed entry into the gifted program, but my mom wouldn't let me until Junior High. I don't agree w/that decision. Most of my friends were in those classes (I was nerdy whether I was in the class or not), and I also think they learned more working / studying methods than I did. Regular classes were too easy for me, I didn't have to try. Once I entered the "honors" program and I found occasion where I did have to try, it threw me for a loop.

[Vishenka69]

Isn't there a comic with a current routine about gifted children? I remember hearing something very recently.

Coming from a culture that has a much more rigorous academic program, it's really hard for me to juge American system. After finishing elementary school in Kiev, even with limited English I was taking high school classes in junior high because I was utterly bored in regular classes. In high school I had an option to skip a grade but didn't take it. I know I'm smart, but I'm also terribly lazy and always look for an easy way out. College wasn't too hard, I put in the minimum amount of studying to get a decent GPA. My mom is still very upset that I never choose to use my full potential.

Both DH and I have some extremely bright and not so bright genes, so it's hard to say which way our kids will lean. I definitely think that kids need to be challenged but they should also be allowed to be kids.

[diggitydot]

There were times I had difficulty bonding with kids my own age, but that is a common problem with gifted kids regardless of whether they are accelerated.

This is what we've found with both DD1 and DD2 who are in their school's GATE (gifted and talented education) program. They don't really get the age appropriate behaviors of their classmates and tend to be closer friends with other kids in their program who have the same issue.

You're very right about programs that are underfunded or inadequately run. We've run into a couple that were absolutely and ridiculously silly. One simply gave the kids more grade level work instead of challenging them. We almost pulled DD1 out of it, but thank goodness we moved to a district that actually had a decent program.


As to the question someone posted about when kids are tested, ours have all been tested in Kindergarten.

[Michele]

Good posts Lily and both Jenns...

For who asked when testing is done...

I was tested in 2nd grade (through the public school) b/c that's when the test was available to me....but they could tell I was 'abnormal' (how I felt at that point) in kindergarten. Once I was in the gifted program and with other kids more like me (in 3rd) I felt less weird and more at ease. Thankfully we stayed fairly segregated from that point on. And it's, of course, how I met Russ!

Russ was tested in first grade also through the public school. His best friend was tested in kindergarten by a private entity because both older brothers were already labeled 'gifted' and he was clearly school smarter than both of them.

My sister was tested b/c I was labeled. I think that was unfair. My mom thought so too. She was a couple of points short of the label and my mom was told that if she had her tested privately she would be labeled 'gifted.' My mom didn't and we all are glad. I think it was hard on my sister to not be 'gifted' when I was....but it actually was easier than it could have been b/c I had all separate 'gifted' teachers that didn't teach the 'regular' kids so she never had teachers compare her to me. She took the 'pretty and popular' route and did pageants and roller skating and stuff. She's pretty darn smart but doesn't have that same aptitude for learning and wanting to learn that I have.

I think it depends on Daegan's personality and how he acts in school whether or not we will have him tested. Being born to 2 gifted parents isn't enough for me to assume he's gifted, but if he goes to school where teachers recognize us, they'll push early labeling.

Part of this issue is what makes me want to homeschool. Both Russ and I made it through the system relatively unscathed but I think it's a different system than it used to be (and I'm not that old!!!). This also comes from talking with my mom (middle school head secretary - used to work elem and high school too) and my sister (elem teacher). I really think it would have been awesome to be able to learn at my pace instead of the one dictated by the school system....it would've been a lot faster than what I was taught at for the most part. But maybe having to learn slower actually taught me some patience??? Maybe not. Ultimately I think I received one hell of an education, but I also think that was because of where we lived and what was available to us.....BF Louisiana does not equal $$Palm Beach.

[GrayMatterWife]

My DS tried to flush the dog down the toliet.

At this point, we are just hoping that he's not "ungifted."

My DS tried to flush the dog down the toliet.

At this point, we are just hoping that he's not "ungifted."

I had a similar point when the IL's tried to brand Quinn the smarter one. At the time, he had a penchant for slamming his head into the floor whenever he was mad.

So he's the smart one??

It's just stupid to try to label teeny-tiny kids. And wholly unnecessary IMO.

[Rapunzel]

I am sorry if I offend anyone but here goes.

___

To be considered gifted you have to crack 130 on an IQ test. My mom teaches gifted elementary so this is a hot topic for me, and also I was tested as a child and designated as gifted. I skipped first grade and went directly to second.

Yes, there were things I wish had been different. I graduated high school at 16 and college at 20. I've never been in a bar in my college town because I didn't have a fake ID. There were times I had difficulty bonding with kids my own age, but that is a common problem with gifted kids regardless of whether they are accelerated. Gifted children DO require and deserve focused education and in America, they rarely receive it. We teach to the middle and focus on kids who will never lead the pack. We do very little in our educational system to train more than worker bees. Why aren't we more interested in training the kids with the smarts to become business leaders?

The point of gifted education is to really hone in on critical thinking, creative thinking, and other intangible skills that make smart people into leaders. We can't raise a populus strictly comprised of worker bees. As a nation, we will fail if we don't encourage and train future leaders.

For everyone who says that gifted education is a joke, I would submit that you either are in an area where the gifted program is underfunded and/or the teachers are not actually certified in gifted education, or that you simply didn't "get" what your child (or you) were learning. It's largely intangible and difficult to measure, but it is a very worthwhile endeavor.

I will try to avoid the NCLB issue, but will say this: part of the declaration of NCLB is that each child will be taught to their maximum abilities. Are the smart kids getting the same deal as those below the curve? I would say they are not. And that is a lawsuit just sitting on the backburner by a group a gifted students' parents who get angry enough.

:soapbox:

I am just now getting caught up with alllllllll of the posts/threads I have missed over the course of this move.

And, Lilly, this is an outstanding post.

One of the personal reasons dh and I homeschool our children is the crazyness we experienced after being identified as "gifted". Yes, both of our IQ's crack the institutionally-designated barrier (by ten to fifteen points over, actually) - and both of us met this qualification and the others that were the "rules of thumb" in our school systems when we were about ten years old. With the knowledge that most children's IQ's generally fall within a five-point range of their parents' average and other observations we realized very early on that our children are....different. Not in a bizarre way - but they do stand out.

And, that is one of the reasons we feel it is so important that our children, in particular, be given one-on-one attention at the levels they need. For instance, my oldest three have been reading on the high-school level with full comprehension for the last several years. Do you know how hard it is to find a challenging book that is on the level of a high-schooler but has appropriate content for a SEVEN year old??? I feel like I am running to keep up with these little people. DS just checked out six novels from the library this Tuesday (yes, the first thing we did when we got here- before unpacking or anything else - was get library cards - which was my children's request ) and he's breezed through half of them now - with full comprehension. Good grief.

But, I agree - I think focusing on gifted education IS important. But, I also think that it appears a lot of schools and school districts do NOT get it right. We DO teach to the middle and the kids on bottom AND on top fall through the cracks. Gifted education DOES teach critical thinking skills (one of the reasons we are starting formal logic training this year) - Lilly's totally right.

And, regarding our educational system training little more than worker bees - you really should read John Taylor Gatto ("Dumbing Us Down"). Good book - regardless of your educational beliefs/background.

I think I know how pinkpickles feels when she talks about not wanting to appear to be bragging. I completely understand that feeling. It's my reality - but I cannot talk about it with most people because it will be taken the wrong way. Even my "complaints" regarding trying to find appropriate reading material for my offspring are not things I can share with others. In our culture we can freely talk about children's learning disabilities and receive recognition for our efforts, sympathy, etc. But, if we talk about our children's abilities it is frowned upon. It can make it extremely difficult for some of us. So, pinkpickles, :grouphug: and, Lilly,

[Vanquisher]

[quote=Tabula Rasa]

I am sorry if I offend anyone but here goes.

___

To be considered gifted you have to crack 130 on an IQ test. My mom teaches gifted elementary so this is a hot topic for me, and also I was tested as a child and designated as gifted. I skipped first grade and went directly to second.

Yes, there were things I wish had been different. I graduated high school at 16 and college at 20. I've never been in a bar in my college town because I didn't have a fake ID. There were times I had difficulty bonding with kids my own age, but that is a common problem with gifted kids regardless of whether they are accelerated. Gifted children DO require and deserve focused education and in America, they rarely receive it. We teach to the middle and focus on kids who will never lead the pack. We do very little in our educational system to train more than worker bees. Why aren't we more interested in training the kids with the smarts to become business leaders?

The point of gifted education is to really hone in on critical thinking, creative thinking, and other intangible skills that make smart people into leaders. We can't raise a populus strictly comprised of worker bees. As a nation, we will fail if we don't encourage and train future leaders.

For everyone who says that gifted education is a joke, I would submit that you either are in an area where the gifted program is underfunded and/or the teachers are not actually certified in gifted education, or that you simply didn't "get" what your child (or you) were learning. It's largely intangible and difficult to measure, but it is a very worthwhile endeavor.

I will try to avoid the NCLB issue, but will say this: part of the declaration of NCLB is that each child will be taught to their maximum abilities. Are the smart kids getting the same deal as those below the curve? I would say they are not. And that is a lawsuit just sitting on the backburner by a group a gifted students' parents who get angry enough.

:soapbox:

I am just now getting caught up with alllllllll of the posts/threads I have missed over the course of this move.

And, Lilly, this is an outstanding post.

One of the personal reasons dh and I homeschool our children is the crazyness we experienced after being identified as "gifted". Yes, both of our IQ's crack the institutionally-designated barrier (by ten to fifteen points over, actually) - and both of us met this qualification and the others that were the "rules of thumb" in our school systems when we were about ten years old. With the knowledge that most children's IQ's generally fall within a five-point range of their parents' average and other observations we realized very early on that our children are....different. Not in a bizarre way - but they do stand out.

And, that is one of the reasons we feel it is so important that our children, in particular, be given one-on-one attention at the levels they need. For instance, my oldest three have been reading on the high-school level with full comprehension for the last several years. Do you know how hard it is to find a challenging book that is on the level of a high-schooler but has appropriate content for a SEVEN year old??? I feel like I am running to keep up with these little people. DS just checked out six novels from the library this Tuesday (yes, the first thing we did when we got here- before unpacking or anything else - was get library cards - which was my children's request ) and he's breezed through half of them now - with full comprehension. Good grief.

But, I agree - I think focusing on gifted education IS important. But, I also think that it appears a lot of schools and school districts do NOT get it right. We DO teach to the middle and the kids on bottom AND on top fall through the cracks. Gifted education DOES teach critical thinking skills (one of the reasons we are starting formal logic training this year) - Lilly's totally right.

And, regarding our educational system training little more than worker bees - you really should read John Taylor Gatto ("Dumbing Us Down"). Good book - regardless of your educational beliefs/background.

I think I know how pinkpickles feels when she talks about not wanting to appear to be bragging. I completely understand that feeling. It's my reality - but I cannot talk about it with most people because it will be taken the wrong way. Even my "complaints" regarding trying to find appropriate reading material for my offspring are not things I can share with others. In our culture we can freely talk about children's learning disabilities and receive recognition for our efforts, sympathy, etc. But, if we talk about our children's abilities it is frowned upon. It can make it extremely difficult for some of us. So, pinkpickles, :grouphug: and, Lilly, [/quote:87b38]

I agree TR. Please pass on some good book recomendations if you have them. My son is reading at a high school level as well, but is 9. He still enjoys childhood themes though.

[Rapunzel]

The Redwall series is good. It's pretty easy vocab-wise but each of the books are self-contained, lengthy novels. They seem to appeal to my son particularly. I think there are about 17 books in the series at the moment - so it's probably at least a month of solid reading right there.

My son has also enjoyed Mark Twain's "boy" novels - Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn.

Right now he's engrossed in a compilation of Edgar Allen Poe works. He's a boy - he likes gruesome - what can I say? The only danger with those is that he IS still a boy and he CAN still have nightmares.

Let's see....

Jack London novels
Robinson Crusoe
The Sword in the Stone

Oh, and if he likes non-fiction you might check some yard sales for used encyclopedia sets. I know, it sounds dorky- but, seriously you've got about six months of reading material right there. I guess my kids are a bit weird (although I did this, too ).

What I've found is that if you go back to the literary "classics" you can find some good testosterone-filled books that are on a considerably higher reading level than a lot of the modern kid lit.

There's Harry Potter, of course.

Oh, and he's been reading Hardy Boys novels as well lately.

That's what I can think of at the moment....

[PrincessFiona]

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/reading_lists.htm

[fluffhead]

I had a similar experience to Lily - tested at age 4 and scored well above 150 (I've since destroyed more than my share of neurons through various recreational practices)....pushed ahead and finished college at 19. It was not a Good Thing - I had no clue where I was going or what I was doing, and I was completely socially inept and out of my league. This wasn't so much an issue in grade school, but became more significant in high school and was a huge roadblock to forming any healthy relationships in college and beyond.
Though I'd like to give my kids opportunities to get ahead, I am going to try my hardest to keep them with an appropriate age group.
The school that DD will attend next year offers something called the Renaissance Learning Program, which is supposed to allow kids to accelerate up to their abilities. Might be a load of hooey. We shall see.

[peggyfromwastate]

SO I am very late on this post, but oh well. My oldest Kate was tested in 2nd grade, along with all the kids. About 25% or so were "gifted" and could then apply for the "gifted" Elem School (a magnet type of thing). We were new to the area, and so I didn't bother b/c frankly I did not want to drive all that way. I thought that she may be smart, but she basically just wanted to do what she wanted to do, and that was read all the time. She didn't want to learn more about math, or science, etc. That being said, she had a good 3rd grade, a horrid 4th, and a decent 5th. I think the pace of her education has always been too slow, and the emphasis on busy work too much. She may have done better at the gifted school, but I think Elem School is mostly about social skills and so she's done OK. We do a lot of higher-level discussions at home about science and what not, so she knows how clouds form and how lightning works, and other random stuff she just asks us. (Even stuff like the bonding principals of water molecules and how they relate to surface tension).

This fall she will be going to a "gifted" program for MS. All the kids are just normal kids, with maybe more interest in reading or humanities than your average kids. These to me are not supremely smart IQ off the charts kids. They are probably more inquisitive and pick up on ideas sooner than some others, but basically this program has really cool field trips and a lot of extra monies invested in it so that the kids can work with professional grade media editing equipment, and really cool computers. I wouldn't get caught up with the "gifted" title. I think they throw it around loosely.