before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

[Flynn]

Lily's thread about timing a baby got me thinking about a different topic regarding parenting.

For the experienced parents out there ---

1.) What were your expectatins about working, being a SAHP, if your spouse was in training --basically being a practicing single parent...etc. PRIOR to having baby??? Did you have strong feelings about working, SAH, daycare, in home child care etc???? Where are those feelings rooted do you think? Did finances play a major roll? Did your personal childhood situation play a major roll?

2.) How did the plan or these feelings change after baby was here? (if at all)


I am NOT trying to start a discussion about working or SAH being the BETTER choice. Rather, I'm curious what the "before" ideas were verses the "after" feelings. In some cases I'm sure the feelings change but the plan does not. And in other situations I'm sure the couple doesn't change a thing.


We know couples who are both die hard ambitious career people who sell their house, rent, be borderline foodstamp people -- so someone can stay home with baby and they live on one income.

We also know couples where one of the parents is JUST ABSOLUTELY SURE they will stay home with baby -- and within weeks they are looking for a nanny, and begging their job to take them back.

And of course there are a lot of stories in between.

So, what's your story?

[Vanquisher]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Flynn, I totally agree. I also know parents who have done a 180 with their plans after their babies were born.

For me, I was 20 years old. I wanted to go to medical school. I wanted the high-powered career.

I never, ever, ever in a million years envisioned myself as a stay at home mom. Even now, when I look around, I think, this is my life? Me?

I was THE top student in my high school with the top scholarship at the University of Utah. I worked two or three jobs the entire time I was in high school and in college before becoming pregnant. When I did get pregnant, I was elated. I planned to work, go to school, and have Ryan in daycare. My job was flexible. I made my own hours. It was the first day of summer semester, and I was in class when I started bleeding heavily. I was put on bedrest for months because of the tear that I had. That ended my summer semester. I had to drop all the classes I was registered for, and I took FMLA from my job. When it became apparent that I could not go back to work, I was forced to resign from my job to be on bedrest for my pregnancy.

After I had Ryan, I planned to go back to work, and we found a daycare for him. I could not get a job that monetarily made sense. When I did finally get a job at a fertility clinic in the University, Chad was able to scale back his hours at work to concentrate more on school. I was able to take my classes. Ryan was in daycare. I got fired after one week. I had never been fired before, and haven't since, and I don't think I deserved it, but it happened nonetheless. That was HARD. Chad had to beg for his old hours back at his job, and we decided that, for the time being, I would be a SAHM (and student). We passed him back and forth between classes, and I watched him while Chad was at work. I haven't had a job outside of the home since. I have done some freelance web design, valet parking at parties in NY for a rare boost of bucks, stuffed t-shirts and mousepads and pens in mailers and took them to the postoffice for iVillage.com, babysat, and done medical transcription. My dream of going to medical school is OVER.

If I could go back, I would have gone for a different degree in school (Nursing) so that I could have the opportunity to create flexible job environments for myself, but I do not regret being a SAHM. Daycare, for me, was awful. Awful. I couldn't imagine putting my precious child in the hands of people that I had to put him in the hands of - him and 10 other kids too! My perception changed dramatically, and my circumstances did too.

You just never know.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Not intended as a debate :>

Flynn, I do hope that this can be a discussion on this topic because this is probably the biggest issue in my life right now. I'd like the chance to talk openly about it.

1.) My expectation when I got pregnant was to keep working and then go to med school. I never saw myself as a sahm because my mom always worked and I was very proud of her. I assumed that I would continue with my education and that my career aspirations would get equal billing to my husbands.....So did dh, btw. In those early days of marriage and pregnancy, everything that we planned career-wise was "we". I do believe a lot of that was rooted in my parents attitudes. My dad was very anti-sahm (and still is). His reaction to my pregnancy with Andrew was "great, now you'll never be anything" because I hadn't finished my schooling. That is something that I've forgiven, but won't ever....forget.

My feelings about working I believe are also rooted in my personality. I always enjoyed being very active when I was younger. I was never the kind of person to be happy hanging out at home...I studied in the library, took dance (jazz, ballet, tap), voice lessons, played soccer, acted in community theater...etc etc etc...(I'm not saying that I excelled at these things, btw...I was never good at piano, and I literally tripped my way through tap class...but I really tried to do a lot of different things to keep me busy and happy). I do well when I have a lot of things to do...imposed structure, I guess. For me, it was a no-brainer that I would continue to also have a life of my own outside of parenting, and every mom that I ever knew growing up had that because all of my friends moms worked at least part-time....all of them...and it was really no big deal. We were proud of our moms. I never once resented my mom or wished that she was at home with me and I felt (and feel) very close to her...

2.) Once Andrew was born, I was gobsmacked by the fact that I couldn't stand the thought of leaving him with anyone. I quit my job, deferred my acceptance and vowed to take 6 months off and then get back to real life. We ended up moving to N. Ireland and having Amanda and I put off "real life" until we moved to the US. This was the first time that I really felt that dh's career had the potential to take over our lives. I started taking a class a semester and felt incredibly guilty whenever I left them with our sitter....who was a really nice, kind woman. I often felt like I lost the respect of the sahm crowd once I started taking a few hours a week to myself. It was as if I had abandoned "the club". I didn't fit in with working moms either because I clearly wasn't committed enough to my studies etc to be considered serious. My biggest supporters were male professors....detractors? Mommy professors who made it clear that they had had to return to the lab withing 2 weeks of having a baby and that taking a class a semester was tantamount to "dabbling".

I believe that I have been very sensitive to the mommy wars....because I guess I always wanted people to like me or respect my choices. The idea that not everyone will 'get' me has taken me years to accept. Also, I wanted to do what was best for my children and it was really spouted out that "good moms" stay home with their children ala "why have them if you aren't going to raise them".

I felt that becoming a good mom meant putting my needs and wants on the backburner to focus on my children...even though the honest confession here is that being a mom is only a piece of who I am...and stifling the rest of me came at a cost.

I love my children....Though I never in my wildest dreams saw myself as being a mom of 5.....ever...I don't regret it for a second...

I have come to realize that not creating a career for myself was a choice that I made and it has nothing to do with my children, having 5 children, having a husband in medicine or anything else. I chose to stay home because I wanted to be there with them and I felt it was the best thing. Sometimes it was, and honestly, sometimes it wasn't. I didn't want to miss the snuggles, watching the soccer games, and seeing them grow and change on a daily basis. So...even though I was telling myself that I was staying at home for them...it was for me, really.

I love the baby years....0-5 is magical to me....

If anyone is still reading....I have also come to the conclusion that being at home isn't good for me. We have moved all over and never established a solid group of friends...our families live far away and so we are very much on our own in terms of parenting.

The happiest times for me as a person have been when I worked outside of the home while simultaneously also being a mom.

When I was teaching and doing lab prep, I felt personally very fulfilled. It was a high point for my marriage and during that time I also was most motivated as a mom...we did german homeschooling and I took full advantage of the time that I had with the kids....quality time instead of quantity time.

Now my days are quantity time....mostly spent in the car...and I've realized something. Because of my after school schedule, Alex goes to KidStop every day. I don't want him coming home alone while I'm on my 1.5 hour tour-de-St. Cloud and so he stays there. I used to pick him up at the end of the route, but he started asking me to pick him up at 6 when KidStop closes.

I felt really hurt about it....but you know...when I pick him up each day, he is playing with a group of friends...laughing, kicking a ball, wiggling a hula hoop around, winning at checkers or having a meeting of the secret "Club of Zelda" that he started.

Picking him up earlier than 6pm would be only for me....I realize right now that I'm not 8...and I don't have the time or honestly...the inclination to spend each day after school playing basketball, talking about the latest video games, playing checkers and engaging him in age-appropriate social activities. When he doesn't go to KidStop, I always ask him about his day, make him a snack and we talk....but HE isn't all THAT interested in spending the afternoon with dear old mom.

I have actually been wondering lately if I did a disservice to my children by not working at some point. Isn't that just a great way to embrace mommy guilt? Damned if you do...damned if you don't. I was so gung-ho about keeping the kids at home with me because it was the right thing while so many of their friends went to KidStop and took dance lessons, sewing classes, played games and socialized with their peers. What did my kids get out of being home with me that they couldn't have gotten in the afternoon/evening and on weekends? My love for them is clear and when I have worked, they never questioned my commitment to them. But....I couldn't and didn't provide them with an endless stream of kids their own age, activities, art projects, games and classes/team sports that KidStop can. That isn't to say that we don't do things together, but there is truly no comparison to the activities available in the afterschool programs....no comparison.

Alex loves KidStop...he loves his friends, the games....Last week he told me "thank you mom, for signing me up for all of this fun".

Did I fail Andrew and Amanda by indulging in myown selfish desire to be there? :huh:

Bottom line....I know...I'm writing for myself only now I have decided to return to school/work. My plans are not yet written in stone and I still feel compelled to be home with Zoe simply because I personally still feel she's a bit young to send out the door to daycare. (My own personal feelings). I think life has to have a balance though, and I'm happier and a better wife/mother when i consider my own happiness beyond the realm of parenting.

I feel blessed to be able to have this discussion and in the knowledge that really, these are good problems to have.

Kris

[rainbabies]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

i always wanted to stay home. dh and i agreed on it from the get go.

[Flynn]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

1.) What were your expectatins about working, being a SAHP, if your spouse was in training --basically being a practicing single parent...etc. PRIOR to having baby??? Did you have strong feelings about working, SAH, daycare, in home child care etc???? Where are those feelings rooted do you think? Did finances play a major roll? Did your personal childhood situation play a major roll?

We started trying to have kids 8 months before it happened I was 30 years old. I was excited but definitely the more reluctant one in the marriage to start a family -- why??-- because I knew that 99% of the parenting would be my job whether or not I formally worked outside the home while DH was in training and maybe even after that. (DH was a PGY 5 at this point)

I had pretty strong ideas about staying home for a couple of reasons. One, DH was barely a husband to me during training (110 hours a week for four years pre 80 hour mandate) and I knew that if our child was going to feel secure and loved, it was going to come from me. I'm not being bitter here -- just realistic for MY personal situation and my personal values. Two, I was in elementary school when the "latch key kid" phrase became mainstream. I was very aware in my elementary school who took a bus to daycare after the school day and who walked home to parents or were picked up. The day care bus fit the stereotype of "day care kids." It was chaos, runny noses, yelling, kids not properly dressed for the weather, and lots of sad looking kids. My 10 year old brain couldn't compute that this was ONE situation -- and didn't necessarily mean all daycares were sad unhappy places. I remember looking at the bus thinking I could never put my kid on one of those. Three, my mom was home with us then eventually worked. However, she was home when we were home because she was a teacher and worked it out. Again, I remember thinking if my parents could work it out and have one parent home -- why couldn't other parents? (Again, this is me as a CHILD thinking this.) Finally, until I was in junior high, I didn't know anyone well who was in a two income household. All my friends had similar situations to mine. Being on sporst teams as a kid really opened my eyes because unless my parents agreed to help take a teamate to practice, they couldn't participate becasue both of their parents worked. These were great kids -- my parents were happy to help out and it was no big deal.

I've come a long way since then obviously and so has childcare. I believe working or not working is an extremely PERSONAL decision.

I believe I had it easy in many respects because I never had to make a decision on staying at home or working based on finances.

2.) How did the plan or these feelings change after baby was here? (if at all)

I think after being home with DD for 6 months I grew to appreciate that staying at home is NOT for everyone. It just isn't. It opened my eyes that while this was a good choice for me, it was damn hard and I should NOT judge anyone who has a different take on it.


I had some strong opinions prior to birth -- most I still agree with FOR ME and my own situation. Post delivery I have much more compassion for new parents in general and more respect for people who make different choices than I have made.

[migirl]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I've never been one who had ambitions for a high-powered career. I have great undergraduate and graduate degrees from prestigious universities and some decent work experience under my belt, but none of that really matters to me. :huh: My mom stayed home with us, that probably shaped how I felt about raising our kids. Plus, like Flynn said, with DH working so much ... I felt it was only fair that our kids have at least one stable parenting force in their lives.

At first, DH was NOT on board with my staying home with our child(ren). He was primarily worried about the financial impact on our household, but once we ran the numbers and saw that it was pretty doable ... he was ok with it. I never had any doubts about leaving the work force and becoming a SAHM. None. And to this day (2 years later), I still love it. I wouldn't change a thing. I don't feel any desire to return to work at all. I love being home with our son, and while I know that adding 1 or 2 more to the mix is going to be hard ... I wouldn't have done it any differently. Sure, it's been a little harder financially, but it's been totally worth it for us.

I do feel for mothers who are put in the position of needing to go back to work for financial reasons, who might not otherwise want to work outside the home. I have a friend who is a drug rep for Merck (big $$$) and she went back to work when her son was 6 months old. She's never come out and told me this, but I get the feeling that she sort of had to go back to work. She was telling me one day that she was trying to figure out if their nanny spends more time with their son during the week than she does. To me, that just seems sad.

[Flynn]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Kris -- if you "now" as the experienced parent were talking to you "then," the woman pregnant with Amanda -- what would you tell her about balancing parenthood?

[Flynn]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

At first, DH was NOT on board with my staying home with our child(ren). He was primarily worried about the financial impact on our household, but once we ran the numbers and saw that it was pretty doable ... he was ok with it.

I forgot to mention that DH was totally on board with me staying home OR working. He felt like his career choice was so inflexible, it was the least he could do. This was very helpful in forming my own opinion and to this day I'm thankful he felt that way.

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I love the PTA coup. I agree with a lot of what Kris and Annie said. Part time work is the ideal for me but can also be difficult to work out. Decent part-time work is harder to come by and that much harder if you need it to be flexible. And I got spoiled by the flexibility of being my own boss and doing contract work. My part time bakery stint was so much more worry that it was worth all because of that pesky little childcare issue.

I am contemplating going back to work part-time. This time I will have a nanny to be home with TenE and with the kids afterschool for those 2-3 days a week.

I also will second what Kris said about this conversation being a luxury.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Kris -- if you "now" as the experienced parent were talking to you "then," the woman pregnant with Amanda -- what would you tell her about balancing parenthood?

I don't know, Flynn.

I think I would advise my daughter to consider her career options with the idea that when she has children, she may want to stay home for a few years or work part-time, etc. This might sound a little anti-woman, but I think I would discourage her from being...a surgeon (for example).....I would want to have an honest discussion with her about the difficulties of balancing children and work (ie sick days, day care, maternal pull to be home, realities of being at home, etc).

I would encourage her to finish her education and work a few years before becoming a mother if at all possible. I do believe that had I finished school and worked first that I might have either...gotten working out of my system :huh: or had a more realistic opportunity to go back part-time when I was ready.

When I was growing up, all you heard was "study hard and you can be whatever you want to be". No one said "when you have children, there will be hard choices."

Again, I don't regret having a big family for a second...but I am changing now how I take care of myself and my needs.

Kris

[Ladybug122]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

This is a topic that I think about on a daily basis. It is the ever-present issue sitting on my shoulders. Prior to having my son, I thought that I would not want to stay home full-time. Since my son, the tide has changed. However, at this point, it is not financially possible (thank you Resident paycheck), so I work. I have tried to cut back to part time, but it is not possible with my current position . My job is very flexible for the nursing profession (research), so I keep it. Almost all staff nursing jobs in the area are rotating shifts (day, eve, night). They also madate around here. Boo. This is not an option for obvious reasons. I don't love my job, I don't hate my job. It just is. However, I do love the people around me and environment I work in, which makes it a lot easier.

Crazily enough, I also have a part time (per diem) job. I don't work much--a few 7-11pm shifts and maybe a weekend shift or two per month. Why do I work 2 jobs? 3 reasons:
1. I love OB nursing. I need my fix. I enjoy it and have fun. I never mind going to work.
2. It forces DH and DS to spend some one-on-one time together. When I am home, this doesn't happen so much. DS is in his "Mommy" phase (has been since birth) and DH will happily let me do all of the parenting if I'm around. So it's good for them to be alone.
3. Extra money for family vacations and FUN is always welcome!

But when PAYDAY comes (in a million years), I plan on letting my full-time position go and just do per diem. It's the perfect fit for me. I also want to go back to school to get a degree in nursing education. My day will come...much, much, much later...but it will come nonetheless.

My son is a friendly and well-adjusted little boy. He loves people, loves other children, etc. and I think that perhaps being in daycare and having a sitter helped foster that personality. BUT I miss him all day long. Every day, all day. The high point of every day is picking him up. The low point of every day is dropping him off. I am honestly getting misty-eyed even typing this.

p.s. I plan on bringing up the part-time thing again with my boss...just waiting for the right time...

[HouseofWool]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

This is something we struggle with as well. DH is a MS3 and our 5 yo is in daycare and half day kindergarten.

I worked FT when I got pregnant with Caleb and took 7 weeks off (after being on bed rest for 3 weeks). Luckily DH graduated with his BS and was looking for a job, so he was able to stay home with the baby. I am so grateful that we did not have to put such a tiny baby into daycare.

DH eventually accepted a job in NYC doing research at Yeshiva University in the Bronx. We moved there from WI when Caleb was about 4 months old. We made the decision at that time that I would stay home. I loved it and hated it. I felt completely isolated, but I also realize that it was because I was so far from family and being in a new city where making friends is hard to do period. (The only lasting friend I made while there is from Texas - go figure.)

Fast forward to the start of medical school and we had to put Caleb into daycare. It broke my heart. He sobbed every time I dropped him off. I cried on my way to work. I missed my baby (18 months old at the time). We ended up changing to an in-home provider which has it's own pitfalls, but I felt like it provided him with a situation that more closely mimiced being at home. Penny was fantastic - she would actively engage him when I was leaving to ease the transition for both of us.

I've since changed jobs and his current daycare is a center which, with DH's chaotic schedule works better. I know that on the days that Caleb doesn't have school, I don't have to scramble. They walk the kids to the elementary school which is just 3 blocks away.

Looking forward, we fully intend to have more kids, most likely 2 in rapid sucession. (I'm 33 now and feel the clock ticking.) With 2 babies, it would make very little sense to work outside the house. For the moment, the plan is to be pregnant when he starts residency. It will give us time to get settled before the new one arrives. Once the 3rd child would be in school, I intend to go back to work part time.

When I was young, both of my parents worked and I hated coming home to an empty house knowing I was responsible for my younger sister. I want to avoid that for my children.

I know that I will miss adult interaction, but I also know that, for me, I crave the together time when they are little. I am fiercely protective of my child(ren) and am not comfortable passing off a wee one who cannot effectively tell me about any issues that come up.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Lily's thread about timing a baby got me thinking about a different topic regarding parenting.

For the experienced parents out there ---

1.) What were your expectatins about working, being a SAHP, if your spouse was in training --basically being a practicing single parent...etc. PRIOR to having baby??? Did you have strong feelings about working, SAH, daycare, in home child care etc???? Where are those feelings rooted do you think? Did finances play a major roll? Did your personal childhood situation play a major roll?

There was never any question for us that I would work. First, I had to. We like to eat and babies (strangely!) need formula and a warm house. So that was up to me. DH was not drawing any cognizable paycheck at the time (he was in his final year of his MD-PhD). We didn't want to wait until DH was completely through with residency (and thus, the story goes, draw a decent paycheck) because we'll both be 39 at that point. We didn't want to risk not being able to conceive.

Second, I like to work. I do not like to be at home full-time. I had three months off for maternity leave and could not WAIT to get into our regular routine and back to work. I would not be a good stay at home mom. Some people are gifted at it. As it turned out, I am not one of those people.

Third, I didn't want my professional skills to rust or to lose my contacts in the legal community while I took time off.

Fourth, I really, really wanted to save for retirement throughout DH's residency, because of how old we will be when he's done. I didn't want to lose those years.

Fifth, I would say that most of the SAHMs I knew (at the time I was deciding what to do) were not especially happy people. For the most part, they were incredibly judgmental (in a passive-aggressive way) of my decisions, while also--oddly--seeming jealous. ?? I could never figure that out. They constantly were justifying to me how educated and smart they were (yeah, got it--you've got a PhD--yep, you're smarter than me). And yet, they seemed not completely at ease with their own decision to stay home. I guess, they were not a great endorsement to me of the decision. And I didn't really want to be around them--I would either feel judged or (if I stayed at home) I might become one of them. I am a happy person. I didn't want to make a major life decision and become unhappy. To me, it was better to just continue to work. Please note: I am NOT saying all SAHMs are like this!! I am saying that those I personally knew at that time seemed, somehow, fundamentally conflicted and unhappy.

2.) How did the plan or these feelings change after baby was here? (if at all)

No. If anything, I became QUITE certain that my decision to return to work was the right one for me, and for DS. We were so blessed. We found a loving, wonderful woman (the wife of another med student) who was DS's nanny the first year (DS went to her home every day). Such a patient spirit! She had a degree in child development and was a SAHM herself (pretty much the only one I knew who wasn't conflicted). She had a one-year-old daughter and treated DS like her own. He loved her and I was so happy with the whole situation. It was like a gift from God. No internal agonizing on my part about the quality of DS's care, etc.

Is the way I did it right for everyone? Nope. Was it right for me? Yep.

[spotty_dog]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

My mom worked full-time throughout my childhood. She was and is a great parents, both my parents are. I never felt lacking, my childhood was wonderful and my mom a fabulous role model.

But as I started to understand the realities of DH's unpredictable schedule as we headed toward medical school and beyond, and as baby fever grew and I dreamed of every developmental stage, I knew that I wanted my kids to have a parent home during their early years and I wanted to be that parent.

DH was in agreement, so because my secretary salary and tuition break were important to our financial stability during school, we put off starting our family until he was drawing a resident's paycheck.

For the most part I've been quite happy with our decision. I like being home with Edward, I like the flexibility of my days and the freedom just to take time to hang out with him and know the dishes will still be there in a half hour. There are a lot of attractions to finding at least a part time job, and sometimes I really really wish I'd pushed harder to go to grad school, but for now this is working out. We live a comfortable life, almost but not quite living within our means, and DH will be moonlighting soon which will bump his income appreciably.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I'd love to hear from the guys on how their lives were impacted......

guys?

Kris