before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Oh yes, the mommy judgement. Having been FT, PT, and SAHM mom, I've heard it from all angles.

Oh, you have to work? (I'm not sorry, you don't need to be either!)

How long are you working part time? (And when are you going to buck up to FT?)

And the ohhhhhh, you've checked your brain into a jar and put on the shelf to be a SAHM.

Either I have a different group of people I spend time with now or I just don't care anymore. Probably a little of both.

[MDPhDWife]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I have completely a different person now than I was 3 years ago. My entire life I had major aspirations to have be a very successful business woman. I always knew I would have kids, but I never dreamed I would stay home with them. I have always been a very independent person and I never wanted to be in a position where I couldn't take care of myself (and kids) if my marriage were to fall apart. I guess it's my general lack of trust in people. :huh:

When I had DD1 I went back to work as planned when she was 6 weeks old. She was cared for by my mother in law. When DD2 came along, I was had the same plan but took a little more time off. She went into daycare and I went back to work at the 3 month mark. Both days I went back to work were the hardest days of my life. I think I cried everyday for a month. Still I didn't feel like I had any choice because of our financial situation to be a SAHM, so the idea never even crossed my mind. I lost my job unexpectadly when DD2 was 11 months old. We freaked out because we had always assumed my paycheck was absolutely crucial. Well we ran some numbers and discovered we could live off the small stipend DH makes if we made some lifestyle changes. Since we had never taken out any student loans at that point, we looked into it and now take out $4 K a semester which sometimes we use and sometimes we don't.

Now I couldn't be happier. I feel free for the first time in my life. I truly enjoy my kids and my life. It's not easy, but I really feel like I contribute to our family. I regret not sitting down and running some numbers earlier. I feel like I missed out on some important times in my children's lives that I can't get back. All because I was working to buy things we didn't necessarily need.

My mother was a SAHM, and I for reasons other than that I swore I would never be like her. I did always appreciate that she was there to see me off to school everyday and there when I got home. Now I get to do that with my girls and I love that I can go on all the fieldtrips and there's no stress come the holidays about finding childcare. Once my girls are both in school full time, I may look into part time work. I just can't see myself there yet. I don't miss Corporate America in the least bit.

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

When I first posted on the previous thread, I was afraid that I had sounded like someone who was pushing staying at home. That was never the intention, I just wanted to share my situation...

Like I mentioned before, I never intended to stay at home. I thought the idea was nice but I always assumed that we could not afford it. After crunching the numbers, daycare just did not make sense for us. I could not fathom the thought of giving almost my entire paycheck for someone else to raise my child. So staying home seemed to us the best option. We are struggling but the resident pay is keeping us afloat for now. Yeah, we stopped eating out, we moved to a cheaper apartment and put even more on credit but I would not trade this time with DS for anything. I love having the freedom of adjusting our schedule so he could spend time with him dad.

Though I love it, I don't know if I am happiest as a SAHM. I miss adult interaction, but I did not have friends at my last job (or in this state) so it made it easier to quit working. Had I been in California, it think it would have been a different situation. I loved the school I was at, the hours were not as demanding and I was close with many of my collegues. I had family there so I think I might have continued working.

I never understood why this is such a heated debate because to me it is a personal choice. I always tiptoe around the issue because people seem so opinionated one way or the other. I'm glad this thread was started because in someway most of us feel the need to justify our choices (even if its just to ourselves ).

[mommax3]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Not a guy, but here's my take on it.

Like Sylvia, I always, always wanted to stay home with my kids. My mom had, and actually, most of the kids I grew up with had moms at home, at least when we were all in elementary school. While I was in college, I did some childcare and nannying for some professors, and I worked one summer at a very chi-chi day care center, and that only solidified my feelings, especially for babies and toddlers. I saw the conflicted mothers and the despair when the fuse was blown and all of the frozen breast milk got thawed accidentally and ruined, and the babies who were sad to leave their moms. None of it looked like something I wanted to go through or have my child go through, if I could find another way.

When DH and I got married, we both agreed that we would be waiting quite a while for babies, which was no big deal because we were very young when we got married....in fact, DH was still an undergrad. So I taught school and he went to school, and that was great for four years. Then at the ripe old age of 25, I felt like life was passing me by. DH was in med school by now and the first of our friends (who were mostly a couple years older than us and NOT pursuing a medical career) were starting to have babies. I really wanted to stay home if I had a baby, and DH was supportive of that, so we decided that if I got pregnant, I would stay home and DH would take out student loans, something he had yet to do because he had a military scholarship. So that is what we did. The job I left was a 45 minute drive away from home, and I did contemplate going back (before DS was born) as the financial realities began to hit. I just couldn't figure out where I would leave him (close to home or close to work) and since I was only making 29K a year that last year, my 5th as a teacher, I wasn't too confident about the daycare situation I would be able to afford.

So after Luke was born, I stayed home, and while I felt isolated and bored a lot of the time, I also never doubted what I was doing. I gave private piano and voice lessons, and brought in some income that way. That year coincided with DH's third year and it was nice to be able to adjust my schedule to what DH was doing. During DH's fourth year, we really were feeling the pinch financially, and along came a job for me, nannying for two doctors who had four kids. I could take Luke with me. It worked out well, gave me something to do and some much needed cash. If DH hadn't been selected for a military residency, I probably would have nannied during DH's intern year as well, and then would have tried to have another baby. But as it worked out, we moved to San Antonio for residency, and DH's pay was better than it would have been in the civilian world, so I didn't work during his intern year. I did have another baby, though, and DH's second and third years were spent mostly with me in mommy-land, and pretty happy to be there. I still gave private lessons sporadically and did some childcare, but I had no desire to put my kids in daycare. They did go to a church-run preschool two or three days a week, for my sanity, and leaving them there wasn't an issue for me or for them. I think what I really wanted to avoid was HAVING to leave them there, or anywhere.

When my oldest started kindergarten, I took a secretarial job for the worship pastor at my church. My second son was either at preschool while I worked or could stay in the childcare room at the church that was *free* for moms attending MOPS or Bible study (or me ). I really enjoyed that job. It was flexible, I worked with adults, used (some) of my musical knowledge, and it was low pressure. I got pregnant towards the end of residency, and knew we would be moving....figured I would be home for a few more years and was fine with it. At that point, I still was thinking that we would have four kids.

After moving to Wichita Falls and having Nathan, I came to the horrible realization that our time in Wichita Falls would not be a replay of our time in San Antonio.....people weren't as friendly, there weren't as many things to explore and do, and there weren't as many opportunities to meet people through DH's job. My oldest was in school and Joel was in preschool, but I was bored and lonely with a crabby baby. It was a very unhappy time in my life, and I was happiest during the last year we lived there, when I (gasp) GOT A JOB. I taught 3rd grade part time at the boys' school while Nathan was at preschool. I finally had friends and a sense of purpose and all of that, and it really helped me. Still, I never thought I would work after DH got out of the military.....and yet, here I am, working part-time in my chosen profession and mostly enjoying it. I don't make even 10% of DH's salary, but what I do make helps, and because I am working, I rarely shop and thus we don't spend much money. The past two years is the first time we have ever had anything resembling two salaries, and at this point, I don't know that mine even counts. We have definitely sacrificed financially, taking this route, but I don't regret a thing. I am fortunate that DH supported me staying home, and when I was ready to work, he supported that, too. He has never put pressure on me to contribute a salary, and he didn't put pressure on me to keep the house clean, fix gourmet meals, etc. when I was home. I think right now that I have a pretty good gig, but even a part-time job about sends me over the edge when someone gets sick at the same time I have a concert coming up or an evening committment. It is always a walk on a tight-rope.

I guess my after-the-fact epiphany is that there are lots more years after your babies start school, and it is good to have *something* to keep you busy at that point. I never, ever thought I would go back to work, but I am not cut out to be a PTA mom. I am not someone who is very crafty, either....my hobbies have to involve people or words. So here I am, blessed to have options in the first place, and doubly blessed to have found the job that I have.

Sally

[DCJenn]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I grew up thinking that my mom was the biggest idiot ever for giving up her high paying job to stay at home with me. Seriously. I'm not even sure that I understand now how she did it. and honestly, she was bored out of her mind for most of it. I went to kindergarten at 4 because she just couldn't do it anymore.

I have had one heck of a career trajectory and I love, love, love what I do. However, when we adopted Nikolai, we adopted a toddler from a foreign orphanage. We felt that he needed the consistency of having one person that attended to his every need for at least a year. and just as importantly, I had quit my job because I couldn't focus on what I was doing and try to negotiate the murky adoption waters at the same time. We knew that we had a year and a half left of fellowship so it would be unfair to everyone (potential employers, me and Nikolai) to get a job to only leave it within a year or so. So, I stayed at home from 4/29/05 until 7/06.

It was the most demanding job I have ever had. I felt like my brain was deteriorating daily. I loved being with him and he definitely blossomed being at home. However, once we moved here, I had him in daycare before I had even found a job.

I have the best of both worlds, now. I work 30 hours a week which leaves me time every morning for me time. He's going to a fabulous pre-school and he's learning things that I absolutely couldn't teach him. He's the kind of kid who likes to play with others but when he comes home he needs an hour to himself to chill. On the weekends, he wakes up and plays by himself for an hour or so before he comes to get us for breakfast. I think from having to share a crib and share a stroller and sharing caretakers, he REALLY likes alone time. When we first brought him home he'd do the spread eagle in his crib and just laugh when he couldn't find anyone else in there with him.

I feel very lucky that I am able to have the set up that I have. But I also don't delude myself- the reason why I'm able to negotiate things like a 30 hour workweek is because I have 20+ years as a professional in the field. I have a skillset that I get nicely compensated for because I know stuff that they need. I wouldn't be able to do this had I not spent all that time developing a career that I love.

I have no plans on changing any of this anytime soon. (of course, we'll see what happens with the new boss)

bottom line- I knew I could do the SAHM thing but I also knew that I would find it constricting. I'm a better mom to Nikolai when we have time to do our own things. I don't delude myself into thinking that I could do half the stuff his teachers can do. So, we're all better off with this plan.

of course, we also have known since before we got married that we were only ever going to have one child. Period. So decision-making is that much easier when you only have to factor in one child and one child's expenses.

Jenn

[Phoebe]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

1. -I had planned on working full-time. I wasn't going to waste my graduate degree and I thought it was important to maintain my own career and be able to support myself. I would even say that I was ignorant about being a SAHP and couldn't imagine how other people could do that. My close friend stayed at home with her daughter before any of rest of our group had kids. I didn't "get" it.

My feelings were influenced mainly by my mom working full-time after we were in school and later having my parent's divorce. Our first child came during DH's the second year of DH's fellowship. Working was partially financial and partially because I wanted to.

2. We interviewed in-home daycares, toured centers and found a place we were most comfortable with across the street from both of our jobs. I had DD#1, went on maternity leave and everything changed. I couldn't leave her in someone else's care more than she would be in my own. My job wasnt important to me anymore (My boss was an ass anyway). A part-time job fell into my lap where I could make my own hours. It lasted 6 months then I began staying at home. That was 6 years ago.

The transition wasn't easy for me. I had my head up my butt. I felt isolated and pretty bored. I will say that I enjoyed staying home much more after having two kids than just one. There are days that I miss working. But I really like being able to take them places and try new things with them.

I think the ideal thing for me would also be a part-time gig. I don't know what I would do, but there are days where I would like to be out of the house and have something of my own to work on.

[houseelf]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Thanks for all the insightful thoughts on this layered subject. I have enjoyed sifting through this thread.

I'm going to be honest here, and doing so will NOT reflect kindly on me. Here goes. DH and I were SUPER naive about what marriage and babies entailed. (The reason for my naivite exceeds the scope of this post, but let's just say my mom sheltered us in an extreme way). When DH and I talked about having our dual career life with FOUR KIDS , we envisioned fulltime childcare, a house that magically self-cleaned, time for the relationship, time for ourselves, etcetera ad infinitum. (BTW, did I mention that we were naive and stupid?)

Pre kids, I viewed myself as "too good" to stay at home full time. You read that right, I just confessed to having some pretty heavy female chauvenist pig beliefs when I was young and immature.

You all know what happened in the interim: marriage, baby, move, GS residency, new job. Let's just say that all of this threw me for a little loop. Nope, it was more like an enormous kick in the pants. At the time, SAH was not an option I could pschyologically stomach because we'd probably incur at least $10,000 in debt over a seven year period. So I made the best of it that I could. I don't regret having to work, I did what I had to do. This is what most people have to do.

As I matured (and than goodness I've matured) I realized that I wasn't passionate about my work. It didn't make me a better "me". My job was interesting and suited my needs, but it also added stress. If I had felt like I was performing my life's purpose, this would be a different consideration altogether.

I realized what a jackass I was thinking that I was too good to care for my own family. Yes, it can get monotonous, but work can get that way as well. Even the Rolling Stones have to sing "Brown Sugar" every night for forty years. I've come to expect a bit of a "crap" factor no matter what the choice.

Because I was a working mom for seven years, I know what I'm not missing anymore (field trips, stressful morning exchanges between spouses on sick days, and the thousand lost little moments). I also know what I AM missing (lunch hour runs ALONE to the dentist, Target, my hairstylist, an adult lunch with a friend, or just a lunch hour "run" ).

I tried to read some books about transitioning to SAH but they were pretty damn militant (Think: "I am my child's mother!"). They pissed me off because I know that there are good outcomes for a multitude of working/not working experiences. Yes, there are sucky things about daycare, but there are also benefits. My son is so adaptable and gets alone with anyone. He benefitted from another set of eyes, another set of experiences, and (hopefully) another adult that cared about him.

Anyhoo, I think that my experience is not representative of all outcomes because I'm not married to someone who works anything that remotely resembles a normal job. In my situation, most of the parenting, house work, cooking, social organizing falls to me regardless of my paid employment status. This would probably be a different conversation if my spouse worked a more typical job.

In sum, this has been one hell of a process. I have often grappled with what I will tell my daughter. Honestly, I'm not quite sure.

Kelly

[Rapunzel]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I haven't read any of the thread beyond the first post. So, here's my answer based entirely on my own experience:

1.) What were your expectatins about working, being a SAHP, if your spouse was in training --basically being a practicing single parent...etc. PRIOR to having baby??? Did you have strong feelings about working, SAH, daycare, in home child care etc???? Where are those feelings rooted do you think? Did finances play a major roll? Did your personal childhood situation play a major roll?

Well, before I married dh I wasn't going to get married and children weren't even in the equation!



After I got married I decided REAL quick that I DID want children. DH and I decided right after we married that if/when we had kids I would not work outside of the home. We were both fine with that decision and we still are to this day. I had strong feelings before I had children that I would raise them full-time myself and I still have those same strong feelings. We did this despite our finances. DH and I come from rather poor financial backgrounds so we were prepared for a lot of the financial challenges that lay ahead with having children while dh was still in school/training. And, we both have the attitude that our finances can and will and DO work around OUR choices rather than vice versa. So far, so good.

As far as background: My mother stayed at home and was a full-time mom until my teens when she went back to school and then started a career. I was the oldest of four. The crap hit the fan at that time. My three younger siblings literally fell apart and you can trace that self-destruction to almost the moment my mother entered school. To this day I believe teens need a full-time mom even more than toddlers do.

DH's story is similar. His mom was a full-time stay-at-home mom until her husband (dh's dad) died. Then she started working (as a janitor) while she went to school. You can literally see the split among the kids who were raised by her vs. the ones who were mostly subject to her time in school and working. The ones who were raised while she was in school and working fell apart - just like my siblings did.

DH and I both had moms who stayed home with us almost our entire childhoods and teen years. Our siblings who came afterwards didn't have what we did and you can really, really tell the difference - even a decade and a half later. There are problems they have as adults emotionally and with their personalities that dh and I (and dh's siblings who came before him) just do not have.

2.) How did the plan or these feelings change after baby was here? (if at all)

Did not change

Not at all

Because of our similar personal experiences in this subject DH and I have always seen eye-to-eye on this issue. And, while I want to finish my degree (and, I will) I will only do it if it does not interfere with my job as a mom and I will not pursue a career while I have children at home - even (and especially) teenagers.

[Rapunzel]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Now that I have read through this thread I do have to say that I would most likely be a bit bored if I didn't homeschool my kids. I seem to thrive on tons of HARD work (ie I'm a masochist ).

I just ordered a formal logic curriculum for my oldest. I am so psyched about it! I told him I was going to teach him how to ARGUE! And, that perked him right up!

[Michele]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I grew up with a pseudo-SAHM who stayed at home until 2ish (I think) and then worked wherever we were in daycare/school. She regretted never having gone to college and getting a "real job" but never regretted always being available for us. I grew up kinda thinking you could have it both ways...but mostly thinking career over family....but being a little conflicted.

IMO it's hard to excel at the sciences, and want to be a doctor and not be 'driven' and think about a good career.....but I also kinda thought that being a good mom meant SAHM.

I don't think my opinion changed after having Daegan, but I had to rearrange my priorities once the kid-talk became serious. I knew I had to decide between going for a residency and being a mom.

I think my part-time gig is the best solution for our current situation. I hate that Daegan is in daycare....but things are a little better with the new class. I miss him tons! But I also really like this time I have alone. (Not the time at work.) My job is ok....I could be a lot happier in a different clinic...but this one offers the flexibility that is key to a WOHM. (The example of the recent water main break here in town comes to mind.....Russ had to work, daycare was closed and I had to work a full day....brought Daegan to work with me...but I could have just stayed home without flack.)

There are downsides to part-time though...I feel pressure (mostly self-inflicted) to keep a clean house, etc as if I was totally a SAHM, and still have to pack the bag for daycare, etc and the worry of leaving him with someone else that a WOHM deals with. But he likes the other kids, I don't feel pressure to make playdates and I get to use the adult half of my brain.

The $$ from my paycheck though has definitely cushed the blow residency has been. (I know ophtho is easier than most, but it was still a shock for us (me)...probably because we (I) were led to believe it was easy.) We can afford a maid, we go out for dinner, we indulge in retail therapy....

I just wish I liked my job and his daycare more.

[JaneDoe]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

Pre-kids: I just asssumed that I would work, drop my kids off at day care, pick them up in the evening, have a nice dinner and everything is hunky-dory. I obviously didn't think through this issue as much I should have. My mom worked full time pretty much since the day I was born. She loved working. She worked because she wanted to, not because she had to. In fact, once she retired for her career, she became a local city counselor. She loves work! I never felt neglected or like an after-thought. So, when I was pregnant I just figured I would work and take my child to day care. It's what I knew.

Post-kids: I did not anticipate having such a strong desire to stay home with my dd. I desperately wanted to sah full-time. But, I earned more than dh, I provided our health/dental benefits and without my income we could not afford the mortgage. For us, it was not an option to put everything on the credit card. It would have caused us more stress than we probably could have endured. We couldn't pay that kind of price. Fortunately, my dd's day care was in the same building where I worked. I was able to go downstairs several times a day to nurse. I went down during most lunches to be with her. Really, it was the next best alternative to sah.

I began to sah after my ds was born. He was born a couple of months before Dh finished residency. I was able to go on maternity leave until Dh started his real job and then I quit my job. I have absolutely no regrets. Now that I've been at home with my kids for almost two years, I can't imagine going back. I love it and I'm so content with where I am in my life. Sure, it's not easy and it can be exhausting, but I'm so happy and I don't feel that I'm longing for anything.

I believe the reason that I'm not longing for a career is that I went as far in school as I wanted to and worked as an attorney for almost six years. I've been there, done that. I know for a fact that it is not where I find satisfaction. Being at home, taking my kids to pre-school, activities and caring for my kids is truly what makes content.

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

My mom stayed home when I was really little, and then she taught at a Montessori school where I started going when I was 3...she was my teacher for a few of those early years, and she was only around the corner through 5th grade. So I basically saw her as much as I would have had she stayed home. My dad is a psychologist and worked alot, so it was nice to have someone that was consistenly there for us.

DH and I got married right after we graduated from college, and then he started med school. I worked at a Montessori school as an assistant and was seriously considering going through the training. However, after I'd worked there a few years, we decided that we were ready to have a baby and so we did. My salary was pitiful, so financially it wasn't a very hard decision to stay home.

I loved my job at the school and feel that if I ever were to have a career, teaching would be it. And maybe someday I'll go back. Right now I am loving staying home with DD. And now that she has reached toddlerhood, I'm enjoying coming up with little lessons for her shelves. I think of it as I'm still teaching in a way. And now I don't have to deal with other kid's parents or co-workers. I'm mostly introverted, so I really don't mind the quiet. I think being home with DD fits my personality....we have alot of fun together each day....and I rejoice when she goes to bed each night and I can go take a bubble bath.

[diggitydot]

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I really never even considered not working after having kids until we ended up relocating to a city where we didn't know anyone or feel comfortable leaving our kids with strangers. All of our previous daycare providers were friends of the family. It's not that I've ever had anything against staying home as much as it was that we needed the money, that I really enjoyed my job, and that I was sure my head would explode if forced to watch Barney on a regular basis. (DD1 had a serious monkey...er, dinosaur on her back for a while.)

Now that I'm home with the three stooges, though, I kind of like it. It was a bit of an adjustment for the first 6 months, but I've found that I really do enjoy my set up.

Re: before and after --NOT intended as a debate!!!

I am a little late here but have really enjoyed reading this post.

I can only give the first half of the story and right now cannot imagine that my feelings will change after I have been a SAHM for a while, but who knows :huh:

As it is now I cannot imagine going back to work after the baby is born. I know there are great childcare options but even imagining leaving him feels painful to me. Assuming that another kid follows this one in 2 or 3 years as we wish, I want to stay home until they are in school, after that I would like to return to work at least part time. I have a good education and do well at work but it is not that important to me. I'm lucky because DH has always said that it is my choice, we will figure it out either way. Now that the time is close, he is really glad I am staying home. Probably the fact that we are used to a lot longer maternity leave than is the norm in the US has influenced our views on this.

Apart from this past 6 months, we have never had 2 incomes. A lot of people would disagree with our financial planning, but for us it is more important for me to stay at home than for us to own a home, start saving for retirement, or paying off student loans. As long as we can afford to pay our rent, bills and other essentials each month, I'll stay home. Whether this will be very long in So. Cal., we will find out, but we have been saving what we can to help us through PGY2, and after that we hope the moonlighting is as available as we have been led to believe.