Absentee parenting

[houseelf]

I know that this topic has surfaced in the past, but my dh's absence is starting to affect my son. We are really becoming unbalanced to the point where my son considers dh an outsider to the relationship between him and me. This is particularly bad since my hubby is a bit more disciplinarian and I'm the more nurturing parent. My son will say things like "I don't like daddy" or "no daddies allowed". I respond by saying "Daddy loves you very much" or "that hurts Daddy's feelings". I explain that Daddy is helping very sick people at the hospital which my son then parrots back to me and talks about the helicopters that bring the patients to him. In other words, Daddy's job is kind of cool because of the helicopters there but he doesn't identify with his dad as a constant aspect of his family.

Last night, I was asking my son if he knew his name and where he lived. (I'm sort of freaky about quizzing him about these things after reading all those true crime books.) He correctly identified our city. When I asked where mommy lives and mommy's full name, he correctly identified our city again and said my name. Then, when I asked him where daddy lives, he said, "the hospital". In his mind, Daddy lives at the hospital and visits us on occasion. In truth, this a pretty understandable proposition for him to believe.

I worry about this imbalance because over the next few years my son will need a stronger bond to his daddy as the same sex parent becomes more important in his development. How do you all deal with this? I keep thinking about that scene in the movie "The Doctor" when the mom tells her pre-adolescent son that his Dad wants to talk to him and the son picks up the phone, not even thinking that his dad could be home.

I don't know what I expect in response to this long, rambling thread....I'm just rambling and upset about this family dynamic. What do you all think?

Kelly

[mommax3]

Kelly,

Can you take Cade with you to visit Sean when he is on call? That helped my boys (my oldest in particular, who was two when residency started and six when it ended) realize that Dad was working and not just hanging out somewhere other than home. We took him Subway for dinner fairly often because Subways keep pretty well in case he got called away before we got there. One night the fates were with us and the kids and I watched a Disney movie in the call room with DH. I don't know if Sean has any down time at all when he is on call, but even if he is only free for 10 minutes or so, it might be worth planning some visits.

I know it is painful to realize that your child percieves your family this way. If Sean is the guy it sounds like he is, it WILL get better. Does Sean know Cade thinks this stuff? What does he say?

Once residency is over, things will improve. Doesn't Sean have some research years at some point? His schedule will be better then, won't it?
Hang in there. I know what it is like.

Sally

It is very upsetting, even though we have been out of residency for almost 2 years, the girls are shocked and amazed at the times when Daddy is actually home. This is especially true for my youngest who is 2. Often he works 10 hr shifts and has the 1hr plus commute each way. He actually got off on time yesterday and due to the weather took him over two hrs. to get home. So what was going to be a night when we could all actually have dinner together became put the little one down to bed after a late supper for her. She was so cranky and tired. Of course he walks in 10 min after she falls asleep and wonders why I didn't keep her up. She hardly even talks about him during the day and I think if he was to never come home she wouldn't even notice.

[SueC]

I've been thinking a lot about this, too--especially since we are coming up on a rough month when they will probably go days without seeing their father. I'm thinking of video-taping him and having him record some books on tape for them, but I keep thinking its kind of pathetic that that will be the interaction they get with their father. Another thing we might try is going to visit in the late afternoon. Apparently the dinner hour is too hectic, and lunch is, too, but I'm hoping that if we visit him during a "slow" time, they will feel a little more connected. At any rate, probably as your son gets older, he will understand why his daddy is gone so much--it sounds like you are saying the right kinds of things to him about your husband's absence.

Kelly - It sounds like you are handling the situation as best as you can. It is hard when they are little because they don't understand.

In some ways, it hasn't been as difficult with my kids being a little older. They understand that dad will be gone for the most part. The hard part for us is when he is home and he is so tired that he just needs to go to bed. That is much harder on all of us than when he is gone at the hospital. The kids want to play with him and tell him all about the things he has missed and he can't keep his eyes open. Depending on the month and what rotation Russ is on, we either see him a lot or not at all. Every day the kids ask if Dad will be home at night. We show them his schedule and we have it posted on the refrigerator now so the kids check it once in awhile to see if dad "could" be coming home at a decent hour.

Going to the hospital is a great idea if you can do it.

As Cade gets older I am sure it will be easier on him because he will understand better. That doesn't make it easier on us who realize what our spouses are missing and what our kids our missing.

Hang in there Kelly. Does his schedule get a little better when he climbs the totem pole of residency? Does he have any easier rotations coming up in the near future? Russ has an easier schedule this month and his "TO DO LIST" is a mile long including a lot of activities with the kids. Scouting stuff, pinewood derby car, going to breakfast at school with the kids, soccer games etc. He tries to get involved as much as he can when he can. Right now, that is all we can do.

Robin

[Amiens]

Kelly,

I just want to tell you that your son's behavior is normal....
I don't know how old your son is, but I brought this same issue up with Emma's pediatrician at her 12 month appt. She is showing signs of "missing" and knowing that daddy is gone at an age I thought was a really young. The ped told me that is VERY common behavior of children who's parents work in the medical profession, specifically those where the parent is going through residency and internship. Our doctor said that depending on the maturity level of the child will depend on how they react to the situation. For example, Emma (13 mos) walks around to every room when Matt is on overnight call, and will call for Daddy, will even go to our bedroom and look in our bed. Right the doctor said the best thing I can do is tell her that "daddy will play with you when he gets home." Then I follow through and give Emma one-on-one time with Matt. The doctor said as Emma becomes more vocal and expressive with her emotions (around 18 mos) that she may even give Matt the cold shoulder when he comes home as "punishment" for being gone. She said it is very healthy and normal, that she will come around and want to play with Daddy. Dr. Risse also told me to not to be surprised if as she gets older she relates Matt to the telephone (if he calls home to talk to her) or to the hospital.

A lot of what everyone else said the pediatrician suggested to us- as Emma gets older- visit Matt at the hospital, make arrangements for Matt to spend one-on-one time with Emma.

I hope this helped! I don't have much experience as we are at the beginning end of everything.

Crystal

Kelly,

I would say that it is probably a phase that the kids go through. I know that we went through this same situation and are still struggling with it some. Gretchen, not counting the week off for Christmas, has only had 4 days off sine October. She scheduled herself to get all these inpatient months done before she had the baby. Basically, that put Drew wondering "Is momma home yet?" at every car that passes the house. He also thought that his mom lives at the hospital when asked.
Everyone brings up good points, visiting when you can, letting them talk on the phone when they can, and to spend time with them when they get home. But to focus on the point of balance betweena disciplinarian and lenient parent, in most family dynamics that is the parent that is gone the most. A few months ago, Gretchen was very upset by this very situation and broke down sobbing while talking with her mentor. This point was brought up, that they will go through phases of wanting the other parent, or blantantly repelling the parent that has been away. They will also associate the discipline with the parent that hasn't been able to play with them all day. We have been having the exact opposite happen in our daily exchanges. Drew will just throw a fit and not want anything to do with me, even though I am here constantly with him.

So, to make this long story even longer, it is mostly a phase that will go from one extreme to another. It will try your patience and every one of your nerves. But the older they get the more that they understand that your husband is making people feel better...with or without helicopters!

I guess I will be mostly echoing what has been said above....but I think this is a normal response to a parent being gone so much and also tough to see and deal with.
My daughter was 1 yo when my husband's intern year started and as the year progressed she had an increasingly difficult time with him being gone so much. I think one of the really tough things is that her "schedule" with him was inconsistent. So, to counteract that, I tried to keep things as normal and scheduled (without being rigorous) at home. We also found that visiting him at the hospital -- usually for dinner -- really helped. That way, she wouldn't go 36 hrs without seeing him. And it worked for him -- had to eat anyway and it was usually a bit slower then.
I think the situation also requires a lot of patience on the part of the away parent. It is hard for them to come home to such a chilly reception. Post-call was the worst because my husband would be physically home but mentally and emotionally so, so fatigued. Maybe plan fun activities for the two of them on non-call weekend afternoons (if possible). That seemed to help too even if it was just cuddling in front of a favorite video.
Ugh. No fond memories of those times. Hang in there!

[DCJenn]

Kelly-

My dad has always had the kind of job that requires extensive travel. When my brother and I were really little that meant Monday-Friday, home on the weekends and then off again. To be honest, no- I don't have a ton of memories that involve him- but the ones I do have are pretty powerful- like being stuck inside with the chicken pox and he and my brother throwing snowballs and the door so I could 'play' too. he missed out on a lot, and sure, he regrets it. But he was also able to support us, send us through college and now that he's nearly retired, we're all very close. We had some really neat rituals though- just the three of us. Once a week we'd meet some other friends at McDonalds and that was really cool. We'd bring back a hamburger for their dog and it was a fight to see who got to feed Agar the Afganhound!

When we were in our teen years the travel became much more extensive, requiring weeks and even months of overseas travel. I think it was much harder on my mother than it was on us. She, after all, was stuck at home with two moody teens.

My point is, that Cade will be fine. All of the kids will be fine. We all adjust to the families that we have. There's no such thing as 'ideal' anyway. Your family is your family and that's what Cade will always know as his family. Remember, there are plenty of miserable families with two parents home everynight!

Jenn

[PrincessFiona]

absentee parenting

Kelly,

I've given this thread a lot of thought because I feel that residency training had a profound affect on our children. What I am about to say may not be considered..PC...by some and that's ok..but these are my thoughts.

It isn't just the absentee part that is the problem. It is the fact that when they are home, they are exhausted, grouchy and really for the most part...unable to contribute or really interact with the children that causes the damage. It is also the fact that there is a higher level of financial and marital stress....and children are like little sponges...they just soak it all up!

I look at my children now and the difference between my oldest two and my youngest is really substantial. My older children grew up moving around and they remember a lot of the bad times. They are much more 'stressed out', and at times...defiant...my youngest was just 2 when we finished fellowship. He is incredibly laid back and happy...and he has a very strong bodn/relationship with Thomas.

When we finished training, my children would not believe me if I told them that Thomas was home...Alex would walk around saying "papa working" and I'd say "no..he's upstairs". They would all go in and have to see for themselves. There was a gradual process for the children and my husband of ...well...getting to know each other. My husband told me tha the felt like he had suddenly become the parent of three children that he didn't know. That sounds harsh, but it is true.


I do believe that with time and work we will continue to heal as a family...but here is the un-PC thing that I am about to say":

Our spouse's chose medicine....and yes..it is an 'important' and alll-emcompassing profession...but having children is equally as important..as is nurturing your marriage. Somewhere along the line our spouse's entire focus though becomes their careers and surviving training...and it simply is not ok...This is certainly due to the inherent flaws in the medical training system...AND Let's face it...if your residency program director just got divorced from his second wife who he's been married to for 20 years to marry a fellow...you KNOW that family values is not something that is emphasized by the program. Also..think about the jokes that make the resident's locker room rounds...you know the fact that you have your residency wife and then your trophy wife

It is up to us to stop this cycle....It truly is. I regret that I did not force my husband to be more involved in the parenting of my oldest children. I was trying to be supportive of him and I wanted to take as much pressure off of him as possible. At the end of the day though, this denied him the opportunity to form a really strong relationship with his children...it denied him the chance to learn to parent, to discipline...the chance to share the smaller moments with the kids. Now that we are out of training, he feels that he missed out on a lot. The truth be told...He DID...and so did I..and so did the kids.

The way that medical training is structured, we are supposed to blindly stand behind our spouse, supporting their carer regardless of the consequences to our marriages and our families. After all, we are supposed to feel "blessed" and "proud".. I understand that it is hard to balance a demanding career and raising children...but I think that our spouses need to step up to the plate...It may be hard, but what are the consequences if they don't?

I apologize in advance for my opinion...

Kris

I think this is a really interesting topic. jloreine makes a good point that, in some ways, this is like having a parent who travels a lot for business. Having my hubby travel for derm residency interviews lately have given the opportunity to compare! Travelling is definitely better because he is available by phone (no pager going off) and can talk to my daughter for a while. And he is reasonably well rested when he gets home and can really devote some time to her. She is still thrown off by him being gone.
Still, as was noted, all families have their "thing" to deal with and this certainly counts. I do think it is possible to have a happy, well-adjusted child in light of the residency schedule. I think that being aware of the situation and acknowledging it goes a long way to helping. My husband read this thread (it made him sad ). He said that he thought the most helpful thing was, no matter how tired, to play with our daughter for 30 minutes or so as soon as he got home. He would usually crash after this and go to bed at the same time as her but it made both feel better.

Do you think that the new residency work hour regulations will help? I think hours will be limited to 80/wk -- that may make life a little easier.

[PrincessFiona]

chiming in again

Well, I have to chime in again and say that I know that I can be a bit...err...passionate about things that I feel strongly about...that's why I apologized in advance

In any case...just so you don't get the wrong idea...we are two years out of training and my husband has more than stepped up to the plate now...he even does LAUNDRY....His relationship with the kids has improved already 100%...we're definately on the right track.....

Kris

Good point! Yes things have changed A LOT since the intern year is over and the cush derm research fellowship started. In fact, my daughter's "favorite" parent right now is dad -- as in, "i want to sit on daddy's lap" "I want daddy to read to me", etc, etc.
Granted it was only one year but kids are resilent and forgiving.

[houseelf]

I truly appreciate all the insight and advice that you all gave. Every single comment in this thread is valid. On one hand, it is doable because my dad worked two jobs the entire time that I was growing up. On the other hand, he missed out on a lot. It was all I ever knew so I don't know what I was missing. In some weird way, I am reliving this scenario in my own life now. (How is that for Freudian?)

Kris, please don't apologize for your refreshing honesty. I get enough "there, there", pat-on-the-hand patronizing in my life. I like that everyone here "tells it like it is".


Sean still averages well over 80 hours a week. Typically, he has met this threshold by Thursday or Friday in any given week. Part of this is slef-induced because his passion and dedicatinon drive him to do what needs to be done without concerning himself about when the four o'clock hour roles around. The really dark side that comes out on the bad days wants to scream...what about giving us some of this passion and dedication and perfectionism? But this is not an appropriate response in any situation....

But still, Does he come home grouchy, impatient, and detached? Heck yeah. Does this affect our relationship or the communication that he has with our son? You'd better believe it. So many times I feel like he is talking at us instead of to us. His patience is simply all used up by the time he gets home. Lord knows that kids need more patience than the saints have collectively.

Then there are times when he shines as an extraordinary parent. On Tuesday, when he was post call, he was incredibly calm, rationale, focused, and incredibly loving with our son. He was on the floor playing superman with him, reading books, and quietly explaining outcomes rather than instantly placing him in the corner for any perceived disobedience. Meanwhile, I'm running around like a mad woman trying to get everything done before we go on vacation next week. I thought to myself, "Now who needs to slow the process down and focus on what really matters?"

It is this ebb and flow in our lives that makes me question my sanity-- and not just on this issue. There are days when I feel like all of these issues with medicine are just in my head, or at least just temporarily. And then there are days were I feel like we are falling apart at the seams and I don't know how to stop it.

Does this qualify as way too much information???? Can anyone discern what I'm really saying here? I know that this is so many issues rolled into one sprawling post. But this is an incredibly complicated issue for us that we have been muddling through...ever since the day I met him. And I'm not sure that we are any closer to the answers. My apologies if this came off as too melodramatic.

Kelly

[mommax3]

Kelly,

It is definitely NOT all in your head, as I am sure you know. But I don't think (at least from what I can tell from your posts) that you all are coming apart at the seams, either.

When my husband was a resident, my mother-in-law would tell me over and over, "this is the hardest time of your life", and in a weird way, that really encouraged me. (And now that residency is over -- she was right!) It was nice to just admit it instead of trying to put a positive spin on things all the time. I really had to just give up trying to be Miss In-Control and instead learn to just focus on one day (or hour) at a time and live in the moment, without thinking about the next day or month.

The biggest way that my husband and I "let go" was our finances. I am NOT recommending this, by any means, but our stress about money and debt was making it impossible to enjoy anything. We had to change our attitudes about accruing more debt (we hardly had any at the beginning of residency) for our mental health. Now we are paying back lots of credit card debt -- which was mostly racked up from trips home to Indiana and dinners out and family fun days, not expensive vacations, furniture, and clothes -- and although we are chagrined when we look at the amounts, we wouldn't change things. Being able to have fun when we could saved us during residency. It was a season in our lives when we had to make the most of the time we had -- and we did! We haven't used credit cards since residency finished, mostly because we have more time together. (We are making more money, but not THAT much more -- it's the military, remember!) As I have said before, we have no college plan for our kids, other than some money that grandparents have invested and the fact that I can always go back to work. In a perfect world, this would all be different, but no one lives in that world, right? What matters is that we emerged from residency with our relationship and our family intact.

That was quite a tangent, and I don't know if there is anything you can use in it or not, but the schizo feelings you have about your life are completely normal. Treasure the moments when Sean is at his best despite the pressures that are on him, and know that (most ) of the times that he isn't at his best are due to his schedule instead of anything deeper. Make time for each other whenever you can. Communication is SO important, as you know. If I could give SOs of residents one piece of advice, it would be this: concentrate on the people (including yourself) in your life, and relax about everything else.

I hope you have a GREAT trip and come back feeling recharged.

Sally