Vaccines

[SuzySunshine]

A friend (without kids) posted this on fb and I really want to re-post it to my page but I'm still deciding if that is wise. I think it very logically lays out the medical reasons to be vaccinated but of course the anti-vaccine crew is going to disagree.

Its an hour but if you have the time you should watch it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/

[ladymoreta]

Haven't watched it, but I think it's good to get the message out there. In spite of almost 100% proving there is no link between autism and vaccines, I think skipping or delaying them is becoming more common.

[Deebs]

I won't put it on fb because my sister is married to a chiropractor and it will start world war III, but I am not shy about discussing the importance of vaccination. We have let a vocal minority sway others to putting our children at risk. It's such an important message to keep vaccinating in order to protect people from DYING from preventable illness.

[corn poffi]

I once had a mother of an autistic child tell me she would have rather have had her daughter die of measles or something than have her be autistic. Yeah. Anti-vaccine people are cuckoo-bananas.

[Phoebe]

I don't know the source, so I don't even know if I should mention it. But here goes. DH said he read that
more peds are now turning patients away who are not vaccinating their children.

Our neighbors are not vaccinated and it makes me nervous for them to be around newborns. They are 10 and 11 years old.

[GrayMatterWife]

It seems like there must be a mathematical way to approach this. I am not statistician, so I would not presume to make an intelligent suggestion, but my gut tells me that there has to be a way to approach this from a non-emotional point-of-view...from other side.

1. What is the incidence of autism in your population? (Ethnic, racial, socio-eco, etc.)

2. What is the incidence of contracting measles /mumps, whatever f exposed?

3. What is the death.serious bodily injury rate among those children who contract?

That is, arguendo a connection between autism and vaccination, what is the connection between exposure to measles, contracting it, and being injured permanently by it?

who's mathematically inclined? any thoughts?

[TigerLily]

I don't know the source, so I don't even know if I should mention it. But here goes. DH said he read that
more peds are now turning patients away who are not vaccinating their children.

I was just about to post the same thing! http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ation-schedule

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

The thing that gets me so heated about this is that most people are using Dr. Sears' delayed vax schedule. This is something he made up. There has been NO testing to suggest this is safer than the current schedule which is based on getting them as soon as it's safe. Tons of moms out there (including my SIL) are using this schedule because it's supposedly "better" but not on any demonstrable metrics that I've seen. It's all based on the idea that you don't want to overwhelm the immune system by giving them multiple shots all at once but that may not actually be a clinical thing. I'd really like this research done to put it to bed once and for all.

And lots of mom's on mothering.com are looking for non/delayed vax friendly peds. I don't blame the peds for turning those patients away, it's dangerous for newborns to be in those waiting rooms with sick kids!

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

It seems like there must be a mathematical way to approach this. I am not statistician, so I would not presume to make an intelligent suggestion, but my gut tells me that there has to be a way to approach this from a non-emotional point-of-view...from other side.

1. What is the incidence of autism in your population? (Ethnic, racial, socio-eco, etc.)

2. What is the incidence of contracting measles /mumps, whatever f exposed?

3. What is the death.serious bodily injury rate among those children who contract?

That is, arguendo a connection between autism and vaccination, what is the connection between exposure to measles, contracting it, and being injured permanently by it?

who's mathematically inclined? any thoughts?

But you don't need math. Vaccines don't cause autism so there's no reference. All you need to know is that if exposed, you might die. If you get vaccinated, you don't. It's simple math. I know some people have allergic reactions to vaccines but that's incredibly rare AND low enough that it still makes it worthwhile at a population level to vaccinate (it's actually one of the hurdles in the FDA vaccine approval process).

[SuzySunshine]

I once had a mother of an autistic child tell me she would have rather have had her daughter die of measles or something than have her be autistic. Yeah. Anti-vaccine people are cuckoo-bananas.

That was said in this piece actually, I think by Jenny McCarthy!

[diggitydot]

Also, trying to nail down statistics of autism diagnoses versus incidents of break-outs of diseases with vaccinations ignores the herd protection aspect for those who are physically incapable of being vaccinated.

[SuzySunshine]

That is the thing with this piece they lay out at least 4, if not more, studies that have been done that are AIR TIGHT! about how the MMR and the thermerisol (sp?) DO NOT cause autism. That the rates are just as high in the kids that have them as the kids that aren't. Yet the parents group who believe they did had the response that well until they test EVERY ingredient in EVERY vaccine they can't say they don't cause autism.

I'm going to post it - we'll see what happens. Good social experiment for the day

I saw this documentary a while ago. (If it's the same one that has a section on a city in OR with a high number of non-vaccinators). I was on the fence about whether to selectively vaccinate or just do the regular schedule. The argument presented in this documentary to protect other people's babies by vaccinating your own kids was what convinced me to just do it (except Hep B).
I do however have a lot of friends that don't vaccinate. Lately I have heard an argument that the chicken pox vaccine does not provide lifelong immunity, and to get it as an adult is worse. So the non-vaccinators try to expose their kids to the disease as kids to provide immunity. Does anyone know if that is true? Or is it like whooping cough where even getting the disease does not provide lifelong immunity?

[diggitydot]

I think varicella vax now requires a booster.

I've never had chicken pox and been exposed to it dozens of times. When DD1 came down with it at 6 months old, our family doc assumed that I had a sub-clinical case as a kid because I was her primary caregiver and still never caught it. They gave me the varicella vax as a precaution, though.

[Thirteen]

I have a lot to say about this, but I think I should be brief.
My brother is autistic. He was diagnosed at 3 1/2. My parents desperately (like many others) still want to have some sort of tangible answer for "why," but they don't.
The "closest" anyone ever got in the autism community was "the vaccines argument," and I think it gave many people peace. When it was debunked, it reopened the knowledge that there is no known explanation and many people still cling to the "vaccine argument" as a lifeboat.
In short: being the parents/siblings of a person on the autism spectrum is frustrating, for there is no real answer as to why, and no "cure" either.
I think people need closure, and seek the vaccine explanation to give them that.
In my opinion, it should have NEVER gotten to this point -- to vaccinate is to keep the overall population hopefully insulated against epidemics. Vaccines did not "give" my brother autism.
It saddens me to no end that people like Jenny McCarthy are respected moreso than trained physicians.
Our son is vaccinated, and so are we.