Entitlement issues in attendinghood

[Vishenka69]

One of the benefits of being done with training and having some disposable income, is outsourcing lots of things around the house (both inside and out). Unfortunately, yesterday I realized that all this outsourcing has a new price. We have a great part-time nanny that can't sit still, so when the baby is napping or playing contently, she finds projects to do (cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc.). Most of these she does on her own, I only ask her to look after the baby and do his laundry/bottles. DD3 has now gotten used to Lucia coming a couple of times a week and doing laundry, dishes, making beds, etc. Yesterday as we were leaving for daycare, she pointed to a paper plate on the coffee table and told Lucia not to forget to throw it out. She wasn't being obnoxious about it but it still rubbed me the wrong way and rendered me speechless. All I could manage at the time was to tell her that it wasn't her place to tell Lucia what to do. But I couldn't stop thinking about it all day.

At the moment I can't stop all the outsourcing right now because we're pretty overwhelmed with the kids. How do I make sure that the kids grow up not ordering people around and learn the value of work and earning money? I fully plan on having chores for both but that's still a year or two away. But how do I convince them to clean or do laundry when they've been watching someone coming to the house to do that for years? I grew up in small apartments and my parents never outsourced anything, so I have no idea how to deal with this.

[Ladybug]

I've cut back as the kids got old enough to start helping. When they are little tornados all they can do is help pick up. I outsourced when I was overwhelmed with young children. It doesn't have to be forever. Of course, having to to help the girls learn to clean/organize requires more time on my part, but I'm able to give that now. Sometimes I'd rather just outsource it all (easy button!) but I know it's not good for them long term.

[alotofyarn]

I wish I knew - as the child of a physician, we always had some help around the house (mostly cleaning - my mom stayed at home and watched us), but I feel like throughout my whole life my parents were good at telling me that we have nice things because they worked hard to provide them for us, and if we want them as adults, we have to work hard too. I learned it, but sometimes I feel like my brother and sister feel more entitled than I do. I hope that some day, my husband and I can teach my kids that too.

[spotty_dog]

Although we don't have regular in-house help, we do have a handyman come sometimes to do jobs around the house, and I would say the issues you're talking about are at the back of my head when he's working here...I make sure when I talk to the kids about why this guy is here working for us that I emphasize the business transaction, the trading of Mr. Jeff's skills that we do not have, for the money that we pay him. (I also make sure he gets the same title as any of the other adults we introduce to the kids, and I ride herd on the kids to make sure that they don't interfere with his work!) Same thing in a restaurant, when we have someone waiting on us we talk about what a server does as their job; or at the shoe store, DS was curious about the different people who helped us and how one lady just stood around sorting tags, so I pointed out that each person working there was doing several different tasks to keep that shoe store running.

One thing that I do hope will help in the long run, is that my kids' friends' parents do these jobs for a living. We are friends with people who are servers and cooks, cashiers and clerks, and thanks to co-op preschool the kids know these adults very well, and so that provides context -- "You know Mr. Diego...well, it's his job to take orders and make the food for many tables of people at a restaurant just like this one!"

In the case of the paper plate, I think the response I'd have had is that a big preschooler is more than old enough to clean up the messes that she sees! Like you said, it's not Lucia's job to clean, and even if it were, we all help out to keep the place tidy enough that the person who does help us with cleaning work, can do their job, you know?

[GrayMatterWife]

But how do I convince them to clean or do laundry when they've been watching someone coming to the house to do that for years? I grew up in small apartments and my parents never outsourced anything, so I have no idea how to deal with this.

To DD3: "Miss Lucia works for Daddy and me, not you. It is not your place to dictate the scope of her work. You are a child. That was not appropriate. I am not angry with you, but I want to be clear about this. It will not happen again."

I would have made her apologize on the spot. DS did that once with a sitter. He didn't mean to sound grossly inappropriate and rude, but he did. I was not angry and I did not berate him, but I did pull him aside (not in front of the sitter) and explain things, pretty much like what I laid out above. And I made him apologize.

[peggyfromwastate]

As a child of a physician... We had no in house help. My dad took trash to the dump, and each of us brought our trash to the truck, and we took turns going with him to throw it out. We all were called to bring in groceries when mom came home from the store. She literally walked in the door and said "kids, come bring the groceries in" and we did. We had a huge lawn which my brothers had to mow. My sister and I did weeding. We got some money for these efforts, but very little. We were frequently expected to pick all the raspberries (or currants, etc) for dessert-- if we didn't pick a quart we didn't get to eat. My mom sent us back out there for more if we tried to sneak a half empty container... I cleaned bathrooms, dusted, vacuumed, everything by age 10 on a regular basis. I was always trying to get odd jobs for $. My dad usually tried to fix up the cars himself, changed his own oil, and always drove old, used cars. We did our own laundry.

We didn't have material stuff, and my peers were always shocked when they saw that we lived in a large house with a pool. We took elaborate vacations and ski trips, though. Thats where my parents "spoiled" us.

After we left home, my mom hired a lady to help clean the house. I suspect she could have long before but didn't want to given that we were there.

Anyway, I haven't thought much about this since we are far from being able to hire out. I insist that dh takes the car somewhere for oil changes and we learned as homeowners to call a plumber bc my dh (not mr fix it) will patch things in such a way that fixing it will cost 4X what a plumber would. (Or electrician, whatever.) honestly I doubt I will hire out for housework bc I do have the kids do so much. They have weekend chores and we seem to get by.

Interesting topic though. I hadn't really thought of this entitlement aspect before. Certainly I saw it living in Mexico for a year. I was shocked by how they treated the maids and what not. My host family wasn't terrible, but others around us could be very dehumanizing.

[peggyfromwastate]

I remember one thing my parents always hired out for:: cleaning our windows on the outside. It was such an event when Jose came to do that. My mom talked to him for so long, really showing us that he was there to do a service but also was a person to be valued and respected. I remember his huge dimples.

I also remember Paul who is the irrigation/sprinkler guy. He was also the dad of a (popular) boy in my school. My mom always made a point of talking to him about his son, comparing teachers, stuff like that.

Now they hire out yard work and have crews come deal with their yard. They keep up the personal conversations--- and treat everyone with a lot of grace and respect.

Julie I'm sure you treat your nanny well--- and that is going to leave a lasting impression on your kids. It doesn't have to be a sense of entitlement unless the parents treat "the help" in such a way that would lead the kids to think they were "better" than someone bc someone worked for their parents. In my case, every person who came to work was treated like a valuable person, and never like an employee.

Interesting topic.

[GrayMatterWife]

I It doesn't have to be a sense of entitlement unless the parents treat "the help" in such a way that would lead the kids to think they were "better" than someone bc someone worked for their parents.

Ever see the movie "The Help"? Absolutely fantastic movie, by the way. I was riveted--it was EXACTLY the way I had grown up watching the maid/cook be treated by my grandmothers (my mother had no in-home assistance of any sort until after I'd moved out). Both my grandmothers are Southern, and from that generation.

EVERY.DAMN.TIME the maid came (twice a week), my grandmother locked up her jewelry. EVERY.TIME. It was bizarre. She had the same maid for twenty-plus years. The woman folded her underwear and emptied her bathroom wastebaskets. And my grandmother had zero trust. For NO reason. She once said to me when I asked her why she hid her jewelry: "Well, Connie is coming over today. And you just never know. It could be a temptation for her." On another occasion, she was giving away a ton of really nice clothing to Goodwill. My mom suggested that she give them to Connie. Her response: "Oh, these are really nice. Connie wouldn't have any use for them. She wouldn't know what to do with them."

[MrsK]

Interesting topic. DrK's family had help. He's 35yo and never made his own bed until he met me. He still slips sometimes and does things like finishing dinner and leaving his plates on the table for me to pick up. I frequently remind him that "Lucy doesn't work here." I encourage my children to bring their plates from the sink, put their clothes in the hamper, make their beds, help unload groceries and I praise them when they do it cheerfully. We do have one regular "rent a bubbe"/babysitter who has helped us from time to time since K1 was born. Now, she mostly babysits but I have called her to help me when, for instance, DrK is on an away rotation and I am very sick. The boys adore her and she adores them. I'm facebook friends with her and we always invite her to their birthday parties (emphasizing to her that she is not there to work; she is our guest). The boys also see her doing odd jobs at our temple and often ask to visit her in the kitchen when we are there. Although we do pay her for her help, I view her as a friend and part of our temple community. I hope she sees me as a friend too. I know that my sons see her as a stand-in grandma and as a person who has authority over them; definitely not as an employee of ours. Otherwise, when we do have someone come to the house to make a repair I'll introduce them to the children, "Mr. _____ is here to help daddy do X. Say hello to Mr. ____." and when they leave "Say thank you to Mr. _____."

My ILs both grew up with help. In MILK's childhood home, they used to ring a bell and someone would come take their plates from the table, etc. She thinks it's appalling that I don't have help. I find the whole "ring a bell" thing amazing.

My parents had a nanny/housekeeper when I was very small. I vaguely remember her - mostly because she taught my mom how to do my hair in long curls like the Cuban girls wore. She and my mother behaved like friends and I remember Rosa's daughter calling in tears when Rosa died long after she stopped working for us. Many years later I learned that, notwithstanding her friendship with my mother, Rosa was let go because she was caught stealing from our home and other homes she worked in. After that, my father didn't trust housekeepers/nannies so my mother did it all herself.

We had a handyman who did outdoors jobs, some yard work, and repairs for us for many years. He'd been employed by my father in the construction business and this segued into odd jobs at our home too. He was a very elderly black man whose grandparents had been slaves. He was an interesting person for us to know. My parents always treated him as an equal with my father usually working alongside him. (I remember my father marveling at how strong Jack was at his age and telling us how hard Jack worked). Notwithstanding their offers of friendship, it was he who often insisted on his subordinate status -- calling my parents Sir and Ma'am, refusing to eat his lunch at our kitchen table but instead sitting on an overturned bucket in our garage which seemed to embarrass my parents a bit. It did seem a lot like "The Help" in terms of the social boundaries that Jack maintained with us.

Even with Rosa being let go for theft and Jack eating lunch in the garage, I never felt entitled or superior to them. I felt fortunate, yes. To have the luck of being born into better circumstances than they did, to have opportunities that they didn't have like to go to college so I wouldn't be doing manual labor in my 80s like Jack had to do. (BTW, they were not the only adults we called by their first names. We called all our parents' friends by their first names.) We were grateful for their help to our family and for the skills that they each brought to our home.

[medpedspouse]

I grew up with a live in maid during the week. My mom worked outside the home and I always remember how appreciative she was for the help with laundry, cleaning, dinner, etc. However, we still did those chores. For example, our maid was not allowed to clean my room/bathroom...that was MY job. She only started cleaning my room when I left for college and was not there.

As someone else said, she was employed by my parents and was there to help them not me.

[SoonerTexan]

A few months after we met and DH and his family moved to Houston (he was in high school) his family hired a woman to help with the younger kids and cleaning around the house.

I admit it blew my mind because my parents were a lot like the above and couldn't afford to hire anything out and were too stubborn to when they could

She came every weekday for 2 years at least and while it seemed like a lot to me at the time I understand why now. She had 6 kids, including a newborn and a one year old, a husband with an even more demanding job who traveled all the time, and was adjusting to a new city. The kids, DH included, kind of ignored her, which bothered me. I think they were just used to her being around. My MIL was very nice to her and I suspect they may have helped her out a few times. When youngest SIL was diagnosed on the spectrum I think it helped MIL have time to focus on her.

Eventually when the kids were older they moved to having someone come clean 2x a month, which is what they have now.

There are some things I don't like about how my husband approaches cleaning, but I don't know how much that can be blamed on having help. He was always fine with it just being dirty...haha. Actually he used to get annoyed when Gladys would clean in his room and he couldn't find his ties. In his defense I taught him to how to clean a bathroom and he does that now. His college aged sisters have turned out lovely and self sufficient. If anything, his youngest sisters might have the most chance of some entitlement, but I think for other reasons.

I do appreciate the skills I learned because we had no help. I've thought about it some and I'd like to find some happy medium. My parents did some things that were frankly ridiculous on their own...and I recognize that streak in myself. I like the idea of keeping kids responsible for their own rooms and bathrooms.

[Thirteen]

I am the housekeeper/laundress/lawn crew/general maintenance.

However, I also recognize when I need to call a professional (plumbing, electrical, HVAC). We never had help growing up, and had chores that were expected of us and then additional things we could do to earn some spending money. Think in terms of "digging/building a new landscaped garden in the heat of summer" versus cleaning the kitchen, and you'd be right in line with my parents.


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[SuzySunshine]

I would also encourage age appropriate chores. We have a cleaning company that comes in every other week and we have the yard fertilized and the landscaping maintained but we do everything else ourselves and the kids help with things like clearing and setting the table, feeding the dog and cleaning their rooms and the playroom.

I went a Love and logic class recently on chores/allowance and I really liked it, we're going to be implementing that with a few modifications in the next few weeks. I think it's a good balance of teaching kids responsibility, being part of the family and having jobs while also learning about money management as a side.

[Urowife]

This is a great topic. I've also been thinking about this recently. Right now, we have someone clean once a month, and when we move, we'll probably up that to 2 times a month (higher salary once we're done with the Navy). But, once the kids get a bit older, I think I want to do it myself. We hire out handyman jobs unless it's something easy that you can learn to do on YouTube. We also have someone cut the grass once a week. But, we do the weeding and trimming.

My parents never hired help. My mom did all the cleaning. And, my dad is very handy, so he did all that stuff - even plumbing and electrical work. He built houses for a while when he was younger, so he knows all about that stuff.

I do always treat our help with respect and treat them as equals - someone that we are paying because they have a skill that we either don't have or don't have time to employ at the moment. We model to the kids that we value keeping up our home, both the cleanliness and the maintenance. And, at this point in our lives, we need outside help to make that happen. When the kids go to school full time, things might change. But, if I decided to get a job or volunteer heavily, and we keep the outside help, the message will be the same. We want to keep our house clean and well maintained. And if mommy is volunteering her time at the library/school/etc., we have to have some help with the house.

[Flynn]

Yes to age appropriate chores and when we do allowance we do Savings, Spend, and Donate. We take on a family in need every holiday and give to Goodwill on a regular basis. I think outsourcing is fine but the message to the kids has to be real and consistent. My daughter made a similar comment when she was 5 about something the "cleaning people missed." Our cleaning people have names, we say hi and we thank them for their hard work when the kids are around. They seem me cleaning our house all the time so our people "help" but they come every other week.

Our yard man has a name and I comment in front of the kids how Dad has a job he loves that pays well so isn't it great that Victor can come and keep the yard up on weekends so we can have more family time with Dad when he's home? I hope I'm teaching them all about trade offs. Yes we pay for things but we can afford it and then we get to have people over more often and host people we care about in our home....stuff like that. We need to be grateful about what we have and the time together paying for help affords us.

I think children learn about people with less in school. DD knows a girl in her class never has popcorn money. She puts her own money in this child's desk three times a year because she doesn't want this girl to think she knows her parents have less. She sees it like being a fairy godmother. She is thankful for her allowance, which is much less than her friends, and is learning to save and donate to charities she believes in.