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Red shirting

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  • Red shirting

    I know that we've visited this topic in the past and a lot of you have held your kids back from starting kindergarten. I'm thinking of holding K2 back from kindergarten or maybe prek and I was wondering if you could help me sort this out.

    He will be 4 in June. He's in preschool now and has two buddies at school whom he adores, one slightly older than he and thr other slightly younger. His teachers say he's "normal" for a 3yo and his less desirable behavior is typical of his age. He is smart and generally eager to please at school.

    However, I think he has a lot of anxiety and I'm concerned about his emotional maturity. He's the only one in his class who is still in diapers although he stays dry through the night (K1 doesn't). He's capable of toileting but says he's afraid and he enjoys diaper changes. He is terrified of swimming class even though he's known how to swim for a year. He doesn't sleep well, afraid of the dark or scared in general. Has trouble separating from me at school about half the time. He's always saying he doesn't want to be a big boy, he wants to be with me. He wants to be with me all the time, actually clinging to me.

    Anxiety runs in my family. My brother (who was also a middle child like K2) and his son both have a lot of problems stemming from anxiety. My grandmother had panic attacks. Also, MILK clearly has difficulty with anxiety.

    With kindergarten being the new first grade, I think K2 would handle boredom better than being overwhelmed. Also, keeping him back would separate him a little more from K1 in school. They would be 2 years apart instead of 1. I think that this would help him to establish his own identity without teachers constantly comparing him to K1 who leaves a distinct impression on teachers, both positive and negative. Overall, K1's strengths are K2's weeknesses and it takes some teachers a long time to figure it out. So, some teachers come down hard on K2 expecting him to need the firm hand that K1 needs.

    So, I'm more than half way certain that I want to delay kindergarten for K2. But now I'm trying to decide if he should do another year of preschool now (he's had two) or do prek twice. Whether I should just move him up to the "older 3s) at the same school while his friends advance or send him to prek in case he matures and actually is ready.

    I've been unhappy with the director of his current school but I like the prek teachers. The teacher in the "older 3s" is okay. She was out of her element with K1 but I think she'll be fine for K2 (more nurturing, less structured classroom). Do I do prek next year and then enroll him elsewhere for another year of prek? I'm a little concerned about how he'll handle separation from his friends but if he does prek with them next year - which is all about kindergarten readiness - how will he feel when his friends advance and he doesn't? Do I enroll him in preschool elsewhere? How do I do this?
    Wife and #1 Fan of Attending Adult & Geriatric Psychiatrist.

  • #2
    Well, I guess I don't get the big trend toward red-shirting. I'm born in August and hubby was born at the end of August and I had several friends with September birthdays... We all did fine...

    I'm really glad I didn't redshirt my anxiety, people phobic son... In fact, I eventually pulled him out after 3rd grade to homeschool him because academically he was so far ahead he was bored stiff though the social part was good for him.

    I guess my question is how do you think he is doing academically, which may be really hard to tell with a 3yo... But your description of your boy sounds a lot like my oldest. He graduated with 6 AP classes and is at Baylor with a 3.8 GPA after 3 semesters. He was more than ready to go to college. But at K, I wondered if he was ready to go... Heck at 13 I wondered if he would be ready socially..... He has done fine. A lot can change....

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    • #3
      We had the opportunity to red shirt Amanda and we didn't. In the early grades, I struggled with doubt about whether we made the right decision. Once puberty hit though, it was obvious being with her same age peers was important. I don't look back and wonder "what if" anymore like I once did.

      I found that the emotional stuff evens out as they grow (and with help if necessary). In fact, at the early grades the kids are really all over the place.

      We heard talk of red shirting Aidan because he was so small and shy. He is now one of the most outspoken kids performing at the top of his class.

      I'm cautious about red shirting.
      ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
      ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

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      • #4
        Very best thing we could have done. Seriously. DS18 has a late July birthday and I truly believe the gift off that year has allowed him to be a leader not a follower, to excel in academics. I had three seasoned teachers tell be to give him the gift of that year. They each had been teaching nearly 30 years and pointed out that he will be as many as 18 months behind the oldest girl in the class.

        Another reason I would encourage the red shirt is because kinder IS the new first grade. Lots of seat work, very little recess, no nap or rest time, homework, the expectation that kids are reading fluently. And many children will be turning seven in kinder (at least that is the case here).

        DS18 did three years of preschool. He just had two years in the 4's class. It really wasn't an issue.

        Eta: Could he handle going to kinder on time? I'm sure he could but the beautiful thing is that he doesn't HAVE to.
        Tara
        Married 20 years to MD/PhD in year 3 of MFM fellowship. SAHM to five wonderful children (#6 due in August), a sweet GSD named Bella, a black lab named Toby, and 1 guinea pig.

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        • #5
          Awesome to read different opinions!
          ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
          ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

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          • #6
            Academically, his vocabulary is a little advanced. Otherwise, he's very average. Another reason to avoid comparisons to his brother.

            I guess I'm wondering if I should do it now or wait until after prek to decide.
            Wife and #1 Fan of Attending Adult & Geriatric Psychiatrist.

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            • #7
              Red shirting

              I don't know how beneficial "red-shirting" a ready-for-kindergarten kiddo is, but I think it's absolutely smart to consider the maturity level of any kiddo whose birthday is on the cusp of entering kindergarten or holding out a year.

              Neither of our older two would have reaped any benefits from red-shirting. They were MORE than ready for school at that point. Our youngest is a different story. He wasn't ready and in hindsight, we should have kept him in pre-K one more year. As it is, we held him back in 5th grade and that has EASILY been the single best decision of his educational career up to this point. He was one of the youngest in his class. Combined with his language disorder, Aspergers, and immaturity meant his educational experience was painful and more difficult than it needed to be.

              Kid's size was never an issue we were concerned about with him. Even as one of the youngest kids in his class, he was still one of the tallest. Now that he's with kids closer to his own age, he's easily the tallest kid in the entire grade.

              MrsK - K2's behaviors are very typical for his age. While he may be anxious about some things, it doesn't seem to be an disproportionate amount of toddler anxiety. You're his mom and know him best. If you recognize behaviors in him that make you think he may have some underlying anxiety issues, he likely does. You're in an excellent position to begin teaching him healthy coping skills early and making a huge impact on his experience. I'd also consider discussing it with K2's doc.
              Last edited by diggitydot; 01-23-2015, 08:37 AM.

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              • #8
                It's a complicated decision, and it's great that you're being so thoughtful about it. I was a red-shirted summer birthday girl, a long, long time ago. It sounds like I had some things in common with your son. I was academically ready for K, but I was an anxious child, extremely attached to my mother, and probably on the low side of the independence spectrum for a pre-schooler. Red shirting was without a doubt beneficial for me. I think it helped me gain confidence, which remains one of my greatest assets.

                But enough about me It's such a case-by-case determination, and I am sure it is hard when you're working with only the limited information you can gain about a 3 year old. A few additional things I 'd consider:
                -What's typical in your area? Will he be the only red-shirter, a full year older than several classmates, or is he more likely to have company in that category? How will he respond if he is in fact seen as "different" in that respect?
                -What's your reading from your sibling dynamic? Does trying to keep up with his older sibling bring out his best self, or would it be better for him to be in a different role at school?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gem View Post
                  It's a complicated decision, and it's great that you're being so thoughtful about it. I was a red-shirted summer birthday girl, a long, long time ago. It sounds like I had some things in common with your son. I was academically ready for K, but I was an anxious child, extremely attached to my mother, and probably on the low side of the independence spectrum for a pre-schooler. Red shirting was without a doubt beneficial for me. I think it helped me gain confidence, which remains one of my greatest assets.

                  But enough about me It's such a case-by-case determination, and I am sure it is hard when you're working with only the limited information you can gain about a 3 year old. A few additional things I 'd consider:
                  -What's typical in your area? Will he be the only red-shirter, a full year older than several classmates, or is he more likely to have company in that category? How will he respond if he is in fact seen as "different" in that respect?
                  -What's your reading from your sibling dynamic? Does trying to keep up with his older sibling bring out his best self, or would it be better for him to be in a different role at school?
                  I would add, what's the cut-off date? How far away from it is he? (Just watched a dear friend sort this out with an August kid, which has me thinking about my June kid, even though we're years away.)
                  Julia - legislative process lover and general government nerd, married to a PICU & Medical Ethics attending, raising a toddler son and expecting a baby daughter Oct '16.

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                  • #10
                    He definitely wouldn't be the only one. It's pretty common here and his teacher said that several of the parents of kids in his class are considering it. If I do it now, he wouldn't even know he's "different". He would have a different class next year for older 3yos/kids turning 4 in the first months of the school year or who turned 4 just before the school year started. If I do it after prek, he might know because they talk to the kids about preparing for kindergarten all year long. Then he might feel badly if his friends go to kindergarten and he doesn't. IDK, but it's possible that one of his buddies' mom is thinking of it since he is a little younger than K2. Bear in mind, there are only 3 boys in his year and they are a definite clique.

                    I think that he is inherently different than K1 and they will find different roles in school. They get along well and appreciate each other's gifts but they have different interests, different peer groups, etc. K1 is a visionary. He's very inquisitive and has big ideas; he's academically inclined. He doesn't socialize well with boys and prefers girls because they are more verbal and imaginative in their play. K2 is big hearted, sensitive, and a guys' guy. He's athletic, affectionate, not especially creative but he'll improvise with his brother. He's very physical in his play and "doesn't know how to talk to girls." He's always in the middle of the pack when boys play together (whereas K1 is oblivious that a pack has formed). While K1 is wishing for a trip to Mars, K2 is wishing for a baloney sandwich. (We've literally had this discussion.) While K1 thrives with strict teachers, structured activities, and likes to be pushed, K2 needs more nurturing teachers and doesn't do well under pressure; the strict teachers intimidate him.
                    Wife and #1 Fan of Attending Adult & Geriatric Psychiatrist.

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                    • #11
                      My biggest advice is whatever decision you make, do it and don't look back a thousand times.

                      We've sent an summer girl and held a summer boy. So far, it has *mostly* been the right decision. So far.

                      I will tell you that being the youngest child does show up in weird ways. Right now it is on the basketball court.

                      Really, I would look at the proposed elementary school and see what the trend is. I've heard so many people say, if I knew that everyone in this community held, I would have too.

                      Good luck. There really is no correct answer here. I promise you.
                      In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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                      • #12
                        I will preface my opinion by saying I just read Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax who thinks we should be more like the Finnish by waiting to start formal schooling at 7...so I think you should wait. ☺

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ravenclaw View Post
                          I will preface my opinion by saying I just read Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax who thinks we should be more like the Finnish by waiting to start formal schooling at 7...so I think you should wait. ☺
                          I could get on board with that
                          Tara
                          Married 20 years to MD/PhD in year 3 of MFM fellowship. SAHM to five wonderful children (#6 due in August), a sweet GSD named Bella, a black lab named Toby, and 1 guinea pig.

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                          • #14
                            There's a boy turning 7 in a couple of months in my dd's kindergarten class. I think it's ridiculous, especially since his mom constantly compIains that the pace of the class is too slow.

                            I don't know--we didn't hold dd back, and she's a September baby. I feel like if you want to be 19 when you graduate from high school, then ok. It did a disservice to my child with more than half of her class being over 9 months older than her. In pre-k, i felt like "put your kid in the class s/he belongs in!" but now I feel more like the age gap is closing as the kids get older. There's a huge difference between 4 and 5 year olds. You wouldn't notice that my dd is younger (sometimes by 15-18 months) than her kindergarten peers, other than physical stature. And she does get picked on for that by the older kids, which sucks. She can, however, talk circles around those kids, so there's that... And that has me believe we made the right decision in pushing her.

                            I say do what you feel is right for your kid.
                            Last edited by alison; 01-29-2015, 05:35 AM.
                            married to an anesthesia attending

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                            • #15
                              See, I have your experience in mind too. Here, a lot of boys with summer birthdays are held back. I wouldn't want him to have the same experience that you are having.
                              Wife and #1 Fan of Attending Adult & Geriatric Psychiatrist.

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