How much do children cost?

[Michele]

I wasn't going to post this, since we're still just "discussing" but you're the best resource I have.

So how much do children cost? How much does getting pregnant cost? How much does having a baby cost? How much does living with an infant cost? What was your deciding factor when it came down to the money aspect?

[DCJenn]

Well, I can give you the "if things don't exactly go as planned" costs-

Infertility treatments can run about $10,000 "a shot" for "turkey baster" treatments. (not IVF, just a concentrated attempted at conception) We're military so it only costs half that much, but it's very expensive in the civilian world. Costs, emotional, physical, spiritual and monetary only escalate from there. For some couples the journey is worth it, for others, like my husband and I, the potential trauma wasn't worth it- which brings us to-

Adoption- We decided on an international adoption because those children are truly abandoned. I don't want a relationship with my child's birth parent. So- Application fee $500 bucks, homestudy: $1500; dossier preparation $1500, follow-up homestudy $500, airfare $5000, hotels $3000, miscellaneous fees $2500. Minimum... I have heard of it costing upwards of $20000-50000 for some people.

As for costs of the "stuff" I would recommend you look at the book "Baby Bargains" just to get an idea of costs- they estimate things like 600 diapers a week for newborns. Cribs can cost anywhere from $100 to $1000- again Baby Bargains and Consumer Reports are inavluable assets to figure out what you're getting.

Life insurance, wills, college education- all financial decisions that should be made prior to "jumping in" if at all possible.

Or say, "what the heck" and go for it!

Jenn

[SueC]

I'd check your insurance policy to figure out how much actually having a baby costs. Our first baby cost us about a grand when it came down to it with pre-natal care and the hospital stay. The next baby ran us about 3.5K because she had to stay in the NICU. This time around, I wised up and got us on an HMO and he cost us $10. Less freedom with an HMO, but with so many well-baby and sick-child visits at our house, I'd much rather have a $20 co-pay per visit and less freedom than pay 20% co-insurance for every visit.
Getting pregnant--for us it was free, but I'd check your benefits on that one also. I have a good friend that had excellent infertility benefits at her job (in fact, she was thinking of leaving that company but stayed on solely for the infertility benefits).
Having a kid--it's hard to measure that one. Babies come with a lot of accessories that you don't necessarily need but you will think you need the first time around. Diapers add up, as does formula (one reason I breastfeed). The rest of the expenses (clothes, toys, food) have kind of absorbed into our budget so we don't really notice them all that much. We tend to spend much less on ourselves, and eat out less (or when we do eat out it is fast food as opposed to nice restaurants) so we haven't really "felt it" all that much. Also, since I work from home, for the first several years I was bringing in an income without spending a dime on childcare. I now do spend about $300 a month on childcare, which is kind of minimal compared to the cost of regular full-time childcare. If I worked outside the home, that would have been a huge factor to consider when figuring out the price of having a kid.
We've been really lucky in that we've got the only grandkids on both sides of the family and both of our parents lead a pretty comfortable life. They've been extremely helpful in buying things for our kids, such as clothes and some of the "big ticket" items that they have.
I think it's smart that you guys are thinking about these things ahead of time. We just decided to have kids and jumped in with both feet without actually considering what it would cost us. We might have made some different decisions regarding the house we bought and other purchases had we known we were going to have 3 kids in 5 years and that one of our goals was for me to stay home.

[PrincessFiona]

You're discussing What I would tell you, Michelle, from the perspective of a mom of four is that the cost is dollars is really....not that important and it is also hard to estimate. Did I say that the cost was not important? I did...that's because when you get to that point you won't think twice about the fact that you aren't able to buy yourself those new shoes (ok maybe you will) you will simply buy the onesies, diapers, etc, etc without thinking about the financial sacrifices that you are making.

Getting pregnant is generally speaking free unless you decice to bless a child through adoption or need fertility treatments. Living with an infant is also free...at least in a financial sense...the emotional cost is something entirely different... I'm writing this on about 4 hours of sleep...(can you tell!!). The cost of buying 'stuff' for your child will really depend on your expectations. Are you a wal-mart crib kind of girl or do you prefer to go to the top-end stores and throw your wallet out there? I accumulated the baby stuff via second hand shops, garage sales 8O and wal-mart....and shopped for some niceer clothes, etc at the big sales at gymboree and the gap. (I don't buy it unless it's at least 50% off!)

As to the deciding factor when it comes to the money aspect? I don't think we considered anything other than what it will cost to send our children to college and how we can best begin preparing for that.

I think it is really human to want to plan everything and do it 'right'. But at the end of the day, nothing about motherhood is really plannable...starting with conception....and lord knows my plans for labor and delivery never went the way that I planned that they would!

The only thing that I will add in terms of cost, Michelle (yes, I must get sleep) is that if you really are planning on doing a surgical vet residency you might want to consider starting your familly when you are done. Not because of the money...and not because I think it would be wrong or bad to put your child in daycare or hire a nanny....but because the cost in emotional and sleep dollars is so high.

Off to take a nap.......

[Michele]

Thank you for the info so far. After reading your responses, I think I should offer up some more information....I was trying not to say too much because we're not all that sure about a lot of things and we're scared to actually admit openly that we want to have children sorta now.

Our thoughts on some issues:

our tenative plan
2005 - Start trying to conceive Spring of 2005. I graduate in May2005 and Russ will finish his 3rd year then. I get a full time vet job until delivery, stay home for ~2 months and then work part time.
2006 - Russ graduates and starts hellish intern year. I work part time.
2007 - same, full time if possible for me.
2008 - maybe #2


$$$$$
I will owe ~80K in student loans (no deferment if I work right), and he gets about 12K/year in student loans for living expenses. (I get about the same amount and ~24K is what we currently live on. We're not all that frugal right now....we slack because there's always some left over.) Once he graduates we can defer his payments because he'll be a resident. As a resident he'll make about 30K. A fulltime vet job will pay 45-50K. Part time will depend on my hours. The plan is to save up when I am working FT to help cover the 2 months off and PT.

my vet surgery residency
To do a residency would mean waiting to have children for at least 5 years. Neither of us really wants to wait that long. I really want to have a family...it's definitely always been a goal. Vet sx wasn't always a goal. If we wait the 5 years, it's possible that it will become longer...because we'll move and...really I have no good excuses, I just want to have children sooner than later. Oh and everyone else is doing it.

To have children now means I would wait to do a residency. Russ' big concern is whether or not I would actually go back and if I didn't would I regret it. I don't know the answers to this. Family has always been more important to me than everything else. Not just having a family, but being part of my family. I think I would go back, or at least train as a surgeon and just get really good at it....in 5 years it's very possible that more private practice surgical residencies would be available...and it's possible that if I found a specialty clinic in our area, and they were willing, a surgical residency could be created for me there. (The rules are still different in vetmed! )

buying stuff
We're spoiled. My parents and his parents and the grandparents and the unlces and aunts will buy us tons of stuff! We received so much for the wedding, that I know they'll buy us a lot of the basics...crib, strollers, highchair, carseats....I know I shouldn't count on it, but my mom has saved my highchair through 4 moves including a serious house downsizing.

fertility
I'm not worried about my fertility. I was an accident. My mom was 31 at the time. My paternal grandmother had 5 children from when she was 26 untl she was 42. Russ's mom had some trouble, but it was her trouble not Russ' fathers (she could conceive but couldn't maintain a pregnancy.)

If fertility becomes an issue, I think we would just wait until we could afford the treatments, adoption, etc. We didn't talk much about it but I don't think we'd try much longer than a year. Though once I'd got my hopes up for a baby, things might be different.

breastfeeding
I plan on it, but I know you can't always predict....I've heard about mastitis (huge factor in the dairy industry!) and not producing enough...

diapers
Cloth vs disposable...I know nothing about cloth diapers excepth that I've heard they're cheaper...sounds disgusting though.

college eduacation
Florida Prepaid and not caring. Russ and I were both paid to go to college b/c of scholarships and our parents did the prepaid thing. I don't care if my children go to college. I think too many people go now. I also think that after being a two doctor family for a while, we should be able to afford college if the situation arises....Right now, both of us think "if they want to go to college they will get scholarships to go, or they will work to afford it, or they won't go."

miscellaneous thoughts
I want to have my breasts reduced. I want to breastfeed. I have a consultation scheduled, but from what I've researched, you should wait until after having children to have the reduction.

Working as a vet in Gainesville could potentially suck. I have been struggling with whether or not I even want to be a vet anymore and we couldn't afford to have me not work. It's possible I could not find a full time job...though I'd probably be able to find two part time jobs and some relief work. It's also possible that no one will hire me pregnant...I guess that's always a concern.

Costs of childcare so that I can work part time. I'm hoping my sister will still not know what she wants to do with her life and will still be in town to babysit a lot (once a week) and hopefully that means I would only have to pay for childcare 2 days a week to be part time?

Of course all of this assumes, that I turn out to be normally fertile and my future child will be normal and I will have an easy pregnancy and will have an easy delivery and not require any additional testing/hospital stays. If anything abnormal occurs, I think we could lean on our parents. I suppose I should have this strong desire to be totally independent, but really if we were striving for total independence we wouldn't have gotten married when we did, we wouldn't have a mortgage on this townhouse, we wouldn't have two cars, and overall we wouldn't be where we are.

I guess the more specific questions I have are how much more is your budget per week/month now that you have children versus when you didn't and where is the money going?

[fluffhead]

diapers
Cloth vs disposable...I know nothing about cloth diapers excepth that I've heard they're cheaper...sounds disgusting though.

We used (and plan to use) a diaper service. Cost-wise, I think this might be a bit cheaper than disposables. It's not disgusting at all, and is tremendously convenient.
Even with disposables, you need to shake off any solids into the toilet (though many people seem to ignore this), so then putting it in the garbage, or in a pail, what's the difference really?
And then we put the bag of soiled out once a week, and the little diaper elves bring us new clean fluffy diapers! It's amazing, we never even see the little guys.

[PrincessFiona]

Long, Sorry!

Michelle, (this is long...sorry)

Sorry for my bizarre answer before....I'm soooo sleep-deprived. I'll take a better stab at these questions:

Student loan payments are deferred (I believe) for several months after you graduate...then you can add another year of deferment if you have just had a baby....You may consider consolidating now (if you haven't already) to lock in a low interest rate...I locked in at 3.5%....and chose a plan for my loans that makes my payments initially very low...They go up each year, but are manageable right now. They will double in 3 years, but by that time I may be working more hours and will be able to pay them.

In regards to working part-time....I don't know if you read my post about this, but it is extremely (underline that twice) difficult to find part-time childcare for an infant...You may be shocked to discover that you will have to pay full-time even if you are working part-time...and that can run you between 150-250 a WEEK depending on where you live 8O Bye bye money!

I just want to have children sooner than later. Oh and everyone else is doing it.

8) Peer pressure, eh! I didn't know where you stood on the residency thing...I know you had been talking recently about diff. sx programs. I didn't mean to interject my .02 on that topic...sorry.

To have children now means I would wait to do a residency. Russ' big concern is whether or not I would actually go back and if I didn't would I regret it.

An honest answer here, Michelle....Whether or not you end up deciding to go back is something you will eventually grapple with and if you choose not to, you probably will have moments of regret. I remember after Andrew was born putting in a deferral and thinking "I'll go back some day"....and then life kept on marching on while that someday got farther and farther away. I would be lying if I told you that I don't have times that I regret it...there are days when the house is a wreck, the kids are driving me to drink and my pretend 2-4 hour a week career brings me to my knees. I have fantasized about running away from home 8) or saying to he!! with it all and applying to grad school and finding a good daycare program On a really bad day, I have been known to shut the door to my room and have a really good sob. I've been jealous of my husband's success at the same time that I've been immensely proud of his accomplishments. This weekend he told me that without me supporting him he would be nothing...I cried...tears of joy...tears of envy...tears of a mother surviving on a few hours of sleep

At the end of the day, balancing career and motherhood is the million dollar question that many of us debate privately in endless phone conversations with each other, contemplate in the bathtub while the kids pound the door to be let in, but deny publically as being an issue for fear of being branded a bad mother.

My someday never really emerged, and I have now come to terms with the idea that it never will. That's ok with me now, Michelle, but it took years for me to get to this poing. My MS in mol. biol. was meant to be a building block for me to get back into the med school track after so many years of absence.....and what I realized when I went back was that I don't do well at juggling that many spinning plates. I was miserable being so stretched and busy and I believe it made my children miserable too. I also discovered that I really enjoyed the lab work (even when I wasn't getting the result that I wanted and had to redo) and that there were other options for me professionally.

Another thing I'm realizing is that I tend to get involved in a project and not be able to let go. Here I am working only a few hours a week...but I got involved in the creation of a new lab and went into the lab every night last week to get it to work (which it didn't )...this tells me that I am not ready to jump back into the career life with both feet...because I let projects become all-consuming.

Motherhood is not what I thought it would be...and yet it is more than I could have ever imagined...If I could go back and do it all over again, I would become a mother again in a heartbeat...but I can't say the same about going to school and developing a career. So as hard as it is right now and with the risk of never landing where I want to be professionally, I will embrace motherhood with all of it's challenges and the role of mother (despite my own imperfections) and will try and keep that career fire burning for the time that I'm ready to step out and try again!

buying stuff
We're spoiled. My parents and his parents and the grandparents and the unlces and aunts will buy us tons of stuff! We received so much for the wedding, that I know they'll buy us a lot of the basics...crib, strollers, highchair, carseats....I know I shouldn't count on it, but my mom has saved my highchair through 4 moves including a serious house downsizing.

Count on having to buy very little on your own for baby#1....if you hold onto all of that you won't have to buy much for any future babies.

fertility

I'm not worried about my fertility. I was an accident. My mom was 31 at the time.

Hopefully that isn't an issue for you .... the only thing that I will say is that everything leading up to having a baby (including the birth) is the easy part

breastfeeding
I plan on it, but I know you can't always predict....I've heard about mastitis (huge factor in the dairy industry!) and not producing enough...

Breastfeeding is such a personal decision and whatever you choose will be good for the baby. I'm too lazy to not breastfeed. I can't imagine getting up in the middle of the night to warm a bottle....I'm not sure about cow's and mastitis 8) but I've only had one friend get mastitits and she was able to get treatment and continue nursing.......though I understand it was not pleasant for a week or so .

diapers
Cloth vs disposable...I know nothing about cloth diapers excepth that I've heard they're cheaper...sounds disgusting though.

We tried cloth diapers for exactly one week....that was enough for us. We figured we were wasting more water washing them than were saving by putting them into a landfill 8O (lazy!) Diapers cost between 9.99-15.99 for a package that lasts between 7-10 days or so....With diapers and wipes and cream you will probably be adding $50 to your monthly budget....at least.

[

b]college eduacation[/b]
Florida Prepaid and not caring. Russ and I were both paid to go to college b/c of scholarships and our parents did the prepaid thing. I don't care if my children go to college. I think too many people go now.

As long as you stay in Fl then you're fine. We have put a lot of thought into this question and I think it almost deserves another thread. We feel that it is our responsiblity as parents to provide our children with a college education, technical college degree or some form of higher learning to prepare them for a career. Too many people are going to college now, but without a college education or some type of specialized training, your children may end up relegated to the ranks of the "would you like fries with that" profession. Sorry to be so blunt. Feel free to tell me to be quiet!

miscellaneous thoughts
I want to have my breasts reduced. I want to breastfeed. I have a consultation scheduled, but from what I've researched, you should wait until after having children to have the reduction.

Wait until you've had all of your children, Michelle...just my .02. Even if you don't breastfeed, pregnancy hormones change your breasts....why pay for surgery twice to fix 'em up

Working as a vet in Gainesville could potentially suck.

That's true...having lived in gainesville and been to the vet with our dog numerous times, we heard plenty of stories about it being extremely difficult to find a job there and with the competition pay was down...Are you sure that Russ will match at UF and that you will be staying in Florida long-term?

Costs of childcare so that I can work part time. I'm hoping my sister will still not know what she wants to do with her life and will still be in town to babysit a lot (once a week) and hopefully that means I would only have to pay for childcare 2 days a week to be part time?

Plan on having to pay someone and refer to the above comments about finding part-time childcare for infants..

I guess the more specific questions I have are how much more is your budget per week/month now that you have children versus when you didn't and where is the money going?

[/quote]

I'm not sure, to be quite honest...but here is a running total of our purchases last month (from memory)

Diapers/wipes/cream.....$50
onesies/sleepers.....$22 (he's growing like a weed)
Preschool for Alex $184 (4 mornings a week)
Shoes for Alex ($14) Wal-Mart
Math tutoring for Amanda ($80 8O )
Boyscout event for Andrew ($25)
Prepay on b-day party for Amanda ($50)

These are the obvious costs.....If you are thinking of baby formula...muchos expensive.....Add to this list our food bill which is easily $150/week....

kris

[Rapunzel]

I am very glad that Jenn posted how much having a baby costs if things don't go according to plan. It brought home to me how incredibly dedicated a person has to be to become a parent through adoption. It's also good to have numbers floating around in my head if we ever decide to adopt. Thanks for laying it out for us!!

Jennifer

[mommax3]

Michelle,

You have gotten great responses and I don't have a whole lot of new stuff to add, but having family support close by is HUGE and will probably make at least the first baby fairly painless as far as your budget goes.

We lived close to all our parents when we had our first (until he was 2) and had the only grandchild(ren) on both sides until 2.5 years ago......that translated into lots of baby equipment, clothes, and babysitting, as well as emotional support that is just as important (or more) as the first things I mentioned.

Just like most other things, you can go the cheap route or the expensive route when it comes to buying stuff that babies/kids need. Most people I know do elements of both, depending on personal preference and what is important to them.

I think when it comes down to it, if you know that having children is important to you, you need to have them (as long as you know that you can pay the bills) and figure out how to work everything in (or not!) as you go. Parenting is an unpredictable ride and there is no way to know exactly how it will go.....even now that my boys are not babies, there are still more unknowns than knowns in the rest of my parenting journey.

Good luck, whatever you decide, and keep us posted!

Sally

[peggyfromwastate]

As for costs of the "stuff" I would recommend you look at the book "Baby Bargains" just to get an idea of costs- they estimate things like 600 diapers a week for newborns.

I think that perhaps they estimated 60 diapers a week for newborns?? Anyway, Jenn, if you all are stocking up on 600 diapers a week in prep for your baby, you probably don't need to buy any more!

I would say that if you want to have a baby, go for it. Really. I wouldn't worry about the urge to return to do a vet residency or whatever. That will come. Look at Kris back at school! I always feel an urge to continue my education after the baby hits about 18 months or so-- when the baby gets more independent, I feel more independent too. Anyway, it will work itself out, and if you have the support of your husband, I just don't see how you can go wrong... Anyway, best of luck!

[Flynn]

You have received some fantastic information here!

I would just add that the book, "Baby Bargains" (you can find in any run of the mill bookstore) helped us budget and put our money where we really felt was important. It also gives you helpful advice on like what products it's ok to buy used and what products you need to have new for safety reasons. Example, cribs and carseats should always be purchased new. I know people who got them used and didn't have a problem but if you did have a problem, your child might be dead so is it worth it? Stuff like that.

It's essentially the "Consumer Reports" of baby stuff but gives user friendly grades and what parents prefer etc. It helped us find our crib, carseat, and stroller -- three of the most important purchases. If you think they are all the same -- think again, especially with strollers!!! They have so many makes and models it gets mind-numbing!!!

I would also agree with the advice that says "see how it goes" with regard to work, school, and childcare. You can only plan for so much before a baby is born and the idea that you are going to love this creature more than yourself (and yes, I too love my labradors but this is different) is kind of hard to measure. Regardless of your choice you will wonder if you made the right choice.

I stay home and based on my husband's hours I firmly believe it's the right choice for us, but I do wonder what it would be like to work part time. I am lucky to be able to make this choice and not be forced into one or the other. I have friends who stay home due to child care costs when they wish they were working. They just can't afford day-care. Sad state of affairs -- but this is another issue.

Good luck!!!

[houseelf]

Great dialogue! I have to throw in my .02 here and reiterate that the cost of childcare, especially quality childcare, is a HUGE factor. If I wanted to work at all outside the home, the only way to afford it was to either earn a serious salary (and probably work all the time) or have a huge space between kids (note the 4.5 year age span) in my children. I am fortunate because I have landed an exceedingly family friendly job in my career, but everything comes at a cost. I have to be honest because 38% of my take home pay will go to childcare the first six months after my maternity leave until my oldest goes into all day kindergarten. 8O I, too, have an unmentionable amount of student loan payments and the monthly debit from our account is downright painful.

With all of this being said, nothing has brought me more joy or fulfillment than my munchkins. You can not predict how your life will be re-prioritized. I would have never believed that I would have such a strong desire to be with my kids as much as humanly possible. I only tell you this because a surgical residency may not allow you the flexibility which you will somehow desire even though you may not be able to see it now. (However, I doubt that you lack the foresight that I did. )

Anyway, go for it. You will never regret it.

Kelly

[Michele]

So with all of your advice, we've had a few more discussions and...

If I have job secured by this time next year, we are going to start trying!

It's kinda hard having my energy focus shifted so much...from trying to play the residency game to now trying to find a job, but it's fun. And we're both really really really excited about our decision. We still ahve enough time to change our minds, but enough time to plan and try to make sure we've got some idea of what we're doing. The hardest part for me is not being able to tell anyone in our offline lives! My friends just wouldn't understand and would be totally unsupportive (actually Russ and I have one friend that we told, just to get a reaction - she's one of those people who doesn't judge anyone and doesn't talk about anything to anyone - she was happy.) I'm glad I have you all! Thank you so much!

[Meenah]

Since I am on the other end of the child rearing (two in college) all I can say is they cost alot!!!! It has been worth every penny. The best thing I have done in my life is my daughters.
Luanne

[DCJenn]

Oh, just for information's sake- the Adoption Agency just sent us a chart laying out what we will pay on the Russian side of thing- $13,800. Which doesn't include airfare, hotels, taxis, food, etc.

Luckily the military has a small amount of money that you can apply for, and there's a tax credit for adopting, and some states have a small grant for adopting "special needs" children but in no way do they come close to $13,800.

Adoption- not for the faint of heart- or wallet.

Jenn