School bus safety

[Sheherezade]

I wondered if anyone had any information on this topic. In our community the children do not take a bus to school because the district is urban, small and walkable. For field trips, school buses are used. They have no seat belts or broken seat belts. Sometimes some seats have belts and others don't. My son (7) is about to go on a field trip 2 hours away on MA highways by bus. I am a little uncomfortable with this!!!! Not to mention that it took the child a year or so to de-program from ALWAYS putting on the seat belt in the car. I read some school bus safety design info on the web; there was talk of the egg-crate design and lack of need for seat belts. I wondered if this extends to 60-70 mph travel on highways. Also, in a separate part of this issue, we have been told that people who do not want their children on the school bus will not be allowed to drive them themselves. The child cannot go. Is that legal? I am sending my son (the trip is a rite of passage at the school), but am very uncomfortable and angry with the way the school is handling this. Any thoughts?

Angie

[Auspicious]

Re: School bus safety

Not to mention that it took the child a year or so to de-program from ALWAYS putting on the seat belt in the car.

I'm not clear on this sentence. You mean it took a year to train him to wear his seatbelt every time?

I read some school bus safety design info on the web; there was talk of the egg-crate design and lack of need for seat belts.

Did the site give any stats about children injured in school bus accidents per year? It seems like almost no school buses have seatbelts, and yet you never seem to hear about kids being injured as passengers in a bus. It was my understanding that because buses are so much larger than pretty much everything else on the road, you were unlikely to be injured inside one. Once I came upon the aftermath of an accident between a car and a Mack truck, and the car was a crumpled mess, but the truck only had a dent the size of a volleyball in it. It was pretty impressive.

My vote is that everything carries some small risk with it, but the risk in this case is miniscule and acceptable.

[houseelf]

The school bus thing makes me uncomfortable too. I have a real problem with the fact that I can be pulled over for the exclusive offense of my kid not being buckled into an approved car seat properly placed in the back seat while the schools get away with mandating that kids get on school buses without seat belts. It is ridiculous! Statistically, getting into a vehicle is one of the most dangerous things a school age child can do. We make McDonald's put a warning on their coffee cups that, hey, ohmigosh, it is hot, but we don't require seat belts on school buses. Anyone else confused by this incongruent logic?

As long as I'm on the school transportation rant.... : I also take issue with the fact that in many districts, if a child came on the bus to an event they must ride the bus home, even if his or her parents want to transport them in the family car. Ummmm What?

Stupid lawyers are ruining this nation.

Kelly

[SueC]

Gosh, I don't know but that would make me nervous too. I pretty much drive to all of my daughter's field trips (she's only in pre-school btw) because I'm reluctant to let some other parent drive her. That is nuts that they won't let parents drive. Then again, you really don't hear much about serious injuries incurred by children while in school bus accidents.

[Sheherezade]

I knew that sentence wasn't clear Julie!!!! I mean he and his friends were SHOCKED that it was ok to get on the bus and not wear a seat belt. He was 5 when he first rode one, and the teachers had to explain to all the kids that it was ok to not be buckled up. They were still nervous for the kindergarden year -sometimes buckling in if they could find a belt and trying to make broken buckles work. I witnessed this because I went along on all the kindergarten field trips. Now, parent chaparones are not allowed (since first grade) but that is a different rant.
There was a school bus accident in the community adjacent to us two years ago. 14 7th graders were killed when a bus rolled over on a school band trip. There was also a rather bad accident in NJ around 5 years ago in which 11 fatalities occurred. It did not help matters that our school ran a bus safety drill with the 2nd grade in which they detailed these accidents to express the importance of paying attention. Accidents are rare, but they do occur. It seems that after a tragic accident, the community gets motivated to make changes. They have changed the buses in the adjacent community. As with so many things, it comes down to money. It is very expensive to upgrade a bus fleet. I am trying to get more info on what happened in our neighboring community politically.. It makes me nuts currently because I live in a VERY high rent district literally. They argue about the quality of the marble used in the public library wainscoting. Seems school buses could be more important!!!!!!

Angie..

Angie

[Sheherezade]

I know I'm ranting here----but I just want to express that I know life has risk. Everything comes down to a risk benefit analysis. I am sending my son on this trip because I think the benefits are great. Still, I wonder if school bus risk doesn't increase in certain situations--i.e. high speed, highway, etc. I think all the data I've seen is for all school bus transport. The average residential routes have got to make up 90% of that data....don't you think? I want to know if anyone knows more specifics about safety. (I'm not really asking if anyone here has that info, but if you do, great ) I think we should find out if it would be safer to charter a "real" bus for long highway trips. When I went to school trips that were far away (state competitions, etc) we often had a bus with real seats and belts. Again I know that money is an issue, but as I've said in this community it really isn't. Makes me crazy---I should probably back off my caffeine intake until this trip is over!!!!!

Angie

[Auspicious]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound patronizing! (Did I sound patronizing? I have now officially lost all ability to interpret tone over the internet. ) I agree that risk benefit is the way to go on this, but I would definitley feel differently about the statistics if there had just been a bus crash in my community.

All I've got in the way of statistics is this, which definitley makes it seem that a kid is safer riding a school bus to an event than being driven in a passenger car, although I have no idea about school bus vs. charter bus.

http://66.218.71.225/search/cache?p=Mas ... =628&icp=1

The safety of buses in comparison to other motor vehicles:

Each year, 23.5 million children are transported by school bus to and from school related acitivities. On average, eleven of these passengers die per year in school bus related crashes. In 1995, twelve passengers died in school bus related accidents, while 8168 children died as passengers or drivers in other types of motor vehicles7. The 1995 transport fatality rate per 100 million passenger miles for a large school bus was .127, while the transport fatality rate for the same number of passenger miles in an auto or truck was 1.0318. In the 426,000 fatal traffic crashes that have occurred since 1985, less than 1300 have been school bus related9. Sixty percent of these fatalities were occupants of other vehicles involved, thirty percent were nonoccupants such as pedestrians, and eleven percent were school bus occupants (two percent drivers, nine percent passengers)10. See Appendices B, C, and D

That was a very interesting study, Julie. I also pulled this paragraph from the same study that outlines the effectiveness of seat belts compared to other safety methods:


"Compartmentalization has been proven to be very effective in increasing the safety of school bus passengers, especially in frontal crashes. Areas of concern where passenger safety in collision could be improved by the installation of seat belts are rollover and ejection. In situations of rollover, however, the primary cause of fatality and injury occurred in the initial collision prior to the rollover where the cause was not displacement from a seat. The displacement is what would be addressed by the additional safety measure of the seat belt. Ejection is rare, however, seat belts would decrease ejection by holding the passenger in place, thereby reducing fatalities and injuries caused by ejection. It is also possible that safety of passengers could decrease with the combined use of compartmentalization and seat belts due to the increased likelihood of back, neck, and spinal injuries caused by insufficient space between seats for belted whiplash effects. The safety benefits of seat belts also depends highly on the usage rates of seat belts in school buses. If the use of seat belts is not mandated and usage rates are low, seat belts will do little to improve the safety of passengers. In comparison to other safety methods such as higher seat backs, school bus monitors, crossing control arms, electronic sensors, mechanical sensors, stop signal arms, external loudspeaker systems, and pupil education programs, seat belts reduce school bus related fatalities the least, though they prevent a significant amount of injuries."

I remember hearing also that one reason why buses do not have seat belts is because in the event of an accident, they could hinder evacuation efforts.

I'm not so much concerned by lack of seat belts on buses, but rather by the number of pedestrian deaths caused by school buses. I personally knew a 5 year old who was killed by her own bus. When she got off the bus, her schoolwork flew in front of the bus. When she tried to retrieve the papers, she was run over. There have also been several cases of children whose clothing got stuck in the bus door and they were dragged by the bus. There are 300% more pedestrian fatalities related to buses than passenger fatalities. I think more money should be spent on adding electronic sensors & better mirrors to the front ends of buses.

As far as chartered buses with seat belts, I would think school buses are far safer than these. I don't know the statistics, but it seems like there are many more deaths to chartered bus passengers than to school bus passengers each year. I am most concerned with the integrity and skills of those drivers. I live near LA and there are a lot of chartered buses that go to Las Vegas. All too often I hear of people killed in chartered bus accidents because the driver was either speeding or fell asleep behind the wheel. I don't know if I have ever heard of a school bus driver doing either of these.

[Sheherezade]

Thanks for the info. FWI both accidents I mentioned involved rollover and excessive speed on bad (snowy) roads. Poor judgement by the driver I guess. The study you site is I think similar to what I read about "egg crate" design and high seat backs, compartmentalization etc. I looked at that info before my son started regularly travelling on buses around Boston for field trips. It was what initially made me decide it was reasonably safe. THis is the first long all highway higher speed trip. Don't the number of cars on the road and car accidents vastly outnumber the number of school buses on the road and school bus accidents? How do they equalize the data for fatalities (more cars==more fatalities regardless of risk) for this? Not trying to argue, just trying to see what the data says (maybe I should sit down and read it huh???) BTW I completely agree about pedestrian issues. Since we don't have school buses for general transport in our neighborhood I haven't had to deal with this. Still as a regular Boston pedestrian (with pedestrian kids) I know what you mean!!! That's really dangerous. When I was in New York, we used to say walking was a martial art.....

Angie