Second Child

[Gwendolyn]

This is inspired by the book discussion about the Two Income Trap. For those of you with two or more children, do you work outside of your home? If you do, how do you handle child care?

We are talking about trying for a second child. I currently do contract work (adjunct and residencies), and constantly ask myself, "will this job cover at least the child care involved and then be worth the time away (financially, experience, networking, etc.)?" Often I am close enough to a "no" answer that I am not sure how it would work with a second child. DH still has two years of residency and then another one-two years of fellowship. It isn't like we are really close to the end. We both really want another child, but we have vowed to make the responsible choice.

Any words of wisdom?

[PrincessFiona]

Honestly, I think it depends on your fram of mind. If you are hoping that you'll be able to have two children, pay for childcare and churn a profit....then you'll likely be disappointed. If you are willing to say "for a year or two I'll be working to basically pay for childcare, but I'll be keeping myself 'in the door' professionally and it will eventually pay off" you'll be ok. I do believe that the time away spent gaining experiencing and doing networking is valuable in the sense that you will continue to reap benefits professionally.

You may find that you can come up with some more flexible work solutions while you have an infant and until your oldest gets into school...that will allow you to continue to 'earn' money and pay less in childcare expenses.

We did it both ways, really....we had 3 children during residency and I was at home for awhile..then I went back to school part-time.....This gave me a lot of flexibility and the opportunity to branch out into a diff. field. When #4 came along, I was working part-time at our state u...and I remained there despite the fact that at the end of the day, I actually 'took home' about $50/month.

I was able to slowly build things for myself professionally and at the end of the day it led to a rather enticing job offer for the Spring semester that would have been much more lucrative and would have made me much more independent. I turned it down for a variety of other reasons.

At the end of the day, there are really no easy choices here...I hope you'll keep us updated on your decision-making process....

kris

Honestly, I think it depends on your fram of mind. If you are hoping that you'll be able to have two children, pay for childcare and churn a profit....then you'll likely be disappointed. If you are willing to say "for a year or two I'll be working to basically pay for childcare, but I'll be keeping myself 'in the door' professionally and it will eventually pay off" you'll be ok. I do believe that the time away spent gaining experiencing and doing networking is valuable in the sense that you will continue to reap benefits professionally.

You may find that you can come up with some more flexible work solutions while you have an infant and until your oldest gets into school...that will allow you to continue to 'earn' money and pay less in childcare expenses.

What she said.

I have found the childcare issues to be more of a concern and harder to manage with two.

[Cumberland]

I teach at the local U, and have fortunately gotten involved in distance learning ( aka teaching in your PJs at home). I am 60% of a full time job but on a given week am on campus about 10 hours, and have holidays, weekends, the summer and a month at Christmas off. I am so grateful for my job situation as I have no clue how we would do it without both incomes. I am due just as the semester ends, and will have the summer off so the new baby with be 3.5 months old before going to daycare. My DCP is a wonderful person and I have had no complaints other than the commute- 20 minutes in the opposite direction- we have thought about getting a nanny but I am too afraid to make the switch from our current situation. Lke everyone else has said, it is all about what your job and childcare situation is. Of course, I havent had to manage with two yet, we will see how it all unfolds.....

[PrincessFiona]

I think Kris summed it up perfectly, as always.

I need to print that out and hang it up on my wall!

kris

[houseelf]

I'm going to err on the side of honesty here. For a WOHM, two plus kids is a whole different ball of wax than one. Don't get me wrong, working a job outside the home with a single child presents challenges enough to make anyone think of quitting. Two kids can mean exorbitant childcare costs, twice the potential sick days and/or other needs that conflict with work (i.e. the Tuesday 11 a.m. Valentine party at school), and potentially two different drop offs. Add a residency in this mix and holy cow, it is a potent recipe for living with near disaster everyday. (Sorry if this is too brutal).

I know that this post is my chance to sell you on this scheme and I'm supposed to be all rah-rah-rah, but the truth is that I don't know how we do it. I should also admit that I have an absolutely fabulous (and I mean fabulous) job which still pays out some money after childcare for two and keeps me in the profession at some level. I would have to have a nanny or a backup support system if I worked any other job. Seriously.

In contrast, my neighbor has three boys and is VP of a local bank. I, of course, used this as an excuse to beat myself for not being more successful professionally.

Then I found out how she manages this feat. Her retired mother comes to her home everyday to watch her kids, do the laundry, and get the kids off to school without charging her daughter. I have another set of neighbors who work full time as nurses. They have worked out their schedules so that the drop offs and pick ups are evenly divided and the kids only have to go to day care three days a week. Let's just say that neither of these options is plausible in our situation.

Do you have family help nearby? Can DH make any accomodations whatsoever, even just one day a week? Does your employer appear to want to accomodate you? Do you have expectations about sibling spacing? Are you getting older in the fertility game? I would really do some soul searching. A baby is always a blessing, but there do appear to be easier times to have one than residency.

We were/are in the exact same boat as you. We need my income and there was no possibility of just "swinging" it on a resident's salary for the next 5 years. At the same time, the ol' fertility clock was a ticking and we didn't want a decade between our kids. Soooo, we are making this circus work somehow. But there are days when I wonder how much longer we can keep this up. I'm not searching for a job when we move in 18 months. I have put my foot down and we will pull out a Visa to finance the two years of fellowship. It scares the bejesus out of me, but we'll get through.

I hope this is what you were looking for? You may have been seeking commiseration or hope and I'm not sure that I offered either.

Kelly

[Gwendolyn]

Thank You Kelly

I guess I need both.

DS is 2.5 and in a dream world of spacing, we would have a baby by now Fertility is fine for a while, but I truly don't want our children to be 5,6,7 years apart. DS was a welcome surprise, but has thrown out any spacing planning...life happens

I am fortunate that adjunct faculty work happens only a semester at a time and other residencies at elementary and high schools are even shorter that that. So if any situation stinks, I don't have to endure it for very long.

We could not afford for me to not work, but I am worried that I would be paying money in child care to go to work, not even breaking even. With the stress of residency, the last thing we need is to be fighting even more about money and how I need more support from my husband.

Misery to me would be having another child and that being the straw that breaks the camels back. Some days I feel like we would do fine and no time is a good time to have another child, so we should just do it. Others I worry.

It is a super important decision, and after the difficulty of coming to terms with an unplanned pregnancy, we were relishing the thought of getting excited about the process, and celebrating instead of scrambling to figure out how it would all work out. That is still four years away...but we (I) can't wait THAT long.

I just feels like others don't agonize about it the way we are and are doing well and are happy.

[Vanquisher]

If fertility isn't an issue, let me just post in report of the large gap spcaing between kids. I will expound on it if you want me to, but I will keep this short.

I wouldn't have it any other way! I absolutely love, love my 6 year gap, and I honestly don't understand why more people don't do it this way. Truly, it is awesome.

Having two while in residency is really hard. I work from home, and I barely make any money. Working outside of the home, I doubt I could find the flexibility or salary required of me. If I truly wanted a career, I really don't think I could do it. See the having it all myth thread in the archives.

Good luck on your decision. I honestly think that if you can wait, you ought to consider it. If you can't, then you have to make a big decision. What is more important, you know?

[houseelf]

In some ways, unplanned babies are the best way to have them. There is none of these overrationalization about when and why. You just let life take over. Our first was a blessed surprise and we never looked back. There were some rollercoaster moments but it worked out great.

DD came at the perfect time too. Except "planning" was an excuse for me to overanalyze everything and second guess myself. Even though two can be a challenge, I absolutely would not change a thing. She is the light of my day and I'm tickeled pink to get to know her. I can not imagine not having her. Go hold someones newborn for awhile and all rational thought processes will go out the window.

In other words, you will make your life work. It just works out somehow.

Best of luck.

Kelly

[Vanquisher]

Go hold someones newborn for awhile and all rational thought processes will go out the window.


Kelly

Oh, Kelly, that's a bad idea!! Even for those of us who are DONE (so, so done), holding a newborn gives anyone that twinge of awwwww, cute, I could do this again. No, I absolutely forbid this. Of course all rational thought process goes out the window when you are holding someone elses newborn!! Sheesh, way to set her up to make the decision for her. Saboteur!!!

[houseelf]

Yeah, but you never regret the kids that you have. Ever. I believe it was Crystal who said you only regret the ones that you don't have. So true.

Kelly

[Vanquisher]

That is true. Very true. Heaven knows that my kids were not had at the most opportune times for us financially and professionally. I would not trade them for the world, but, I stand by my assessment that you cannot make this decision holding a newborn. It clouds the mind. Inset newborn voodoo mind tricks emoticon here.

It may not always be the best time to have a child, but almost no one has children at the best time. You have to do what feels right. THings will work out, but you have to, if it comes to it, be willing to make hard choices and big decisions, and you will. I'm just saying that if time is not an issue, the large gap can be so wonderful, and it may work out for her.

On the other hand, I am a big propenent of having kids (within reason) over money concerns and career aspirations. No one, when they die, wishes they had worked more.

It's a balance, and a hard decision, but you cannot make that decision holding a newborn!!! :>

[Gwendolyn]

Yeah, but you never regret the kids that you have. Ever. I believe it was Crystal who said you only regret the ones that you don't have. So true.

Kelly

I was on the phone with DH while reading...he says thanks kemosabe

Holding a baby right now has almost enough power over me I might spontaneously impregnate!! :!

Thank you for all of your thoughts...I think we are at a place where we would both be happy if I got pregnant, but DH is afraid of taking responsibility for making the decision! What is it about their job that keeps them from any decision making at home...sometimes he can't even get the energy to decide what he wants to eat!!! (sorry side rant)

[DCJenn]

Hey-

So, first let me give the caveat that we ARE the fertility nightmare twins and therefore adopted at a mind-boggling expense ($45 grand all together)...

but I was seriously thinking about doing it again and had convinced my husband to think about it but now that Nikolai is nearly two? I'm done. I'll do whatever I can to support kids in orphanages but adopt another one!

There are some definite positives about only one child, the least of which is your family is inifinitely more maneuverable. (one kid to place in school, one kid to worry about sending to college, fewer diaper years, etc.)

I had a friend tell me about her decision to only have one was based entirely on the fact that she loved to hang out with her husband and really wanted to be able to concentrate on her child and her spouse. and ended up with a great, independent, smart daughter who is now done with college and my friends are kicking back enjoying each other's company again.

If you really want another, then you'll figure it out, but one is always an OK option, too.

Jenn

[Meenah]

What is it about their job that keeps them from any decision making at home...sometimes he can't even get the energy to decide what he wants to eat!!! (sorry side rant)

That is so tru and so funny!!!
Luanne