The great grade debate

[PrincessFiona]

I alluded to this a bit in the callroom, but...I want to discuss this as a 'parenting' thread.

My daughter (grade 4) is failing music. It's not just that she's failing music...she is FAILING music. They have taken two exams and she failed each of them. Then, her teacher gave her the opportunity for a make-up exam for each test...and she failed those too.

I saw one of the exams...ok...it was not 'Montessori'-style thrilling, but it wasn't impossible. She had drawings of all different kinds of instruments banjo, violin, cello, etc etc and asked the children to identify them. I think Amanda got the...piano right.

What bothers me about this, is that Amanda doesn't CARE. "Music is stupid" she says...and furthermore "Papa failed music, so what is the big deal".

And it's true...thomas failed music in highschool. It was required for him and his final exam was to have to sing a solo. Unfortunately, he is terribly tone deaf, and the teacher thought that he was making fun of her when he sang his solo (truly...don't quit your day job, Thomas) and that is why he failed. He has told Amanda to 'not worry' about music in the past and basically he does not care that she failed music.

Well...I care....because in my eyes...correct me if I'm wrong here...this is about a larger issue...namely attitude. I explained to her that there are a lot of things in our lives that we have to do that we think are 'stupid' but we have to jump through these hoops in order to get to our goals...I also told her that no matter what we do, we have to do our 'best'...and that I was concerned that she was setting a precedent for herself that was not a good one.

Both she and Thomas kind of looked at each other with that "music really IS stupid, but let's just nod and say 'ok' to mom" look and then she said "ok"....

help....what can I do to impress upon her that it is not ok to just 'fail' at something we find unimportant?

kris

[DCJenn]

That's a tough one because that is the exact attitude that I had for math. and I did end up choosing my college major based on whether I had to take math or not. (I ended up taking Statistics for the Pathetically Stupid Social Work and Psych and English Majors)

I could never, ever get myself worked up enough to do anything BUT pass. (d- in high school Algebra, having had to repeat Algebra one and getting straight Cs and Ds throughout the rest of my illustrious math career. Even my lab science in college was ecology- we played outside!)

Sorry, can't help.

Jenn

I do agree that it is setting a poor precedent to say 'music is stupid' and not be concerned with a failing grade. Understanding and participating in music lends to better math comprehension, and lots of other good stuff that I can't quote right now (glad we're not in debates). Plus, it will give Amanda the impression she can pick and choose what to work on.

It's not as though this test required actual music skill, and her failure might be due to an ingrained lack of rhythm or tone deafness (for which actual failure would be unfair). From all other reports Amanda sounds like a very intelligent child, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect her to pick out a cello, banjo, etc. --- especially given a 2nd chance.

Thomas needs to back you up on this. Otherwise, you'll always hear back "Papa failed music."

We lost privelages with low grades in my house. May not have been internally motivated but it worked like a charm. I don't think that's too different from the real world, so it's a lesson in itself.

Filing away for future reference...

[DCJenn]

Wouldn't have worked for me, and in fact didn't work for me. Amanda reminds me so much of myself where you have to want to do it- or not. External reinforment meant nothing.

Jenn

[Sheherezade]

I think she needs an attitude adjustment, too. (My poor kids!) I have a problem with not trying in class - no matter what the class. It sounds like the test was more music theory/history. I can understand Thomas failing if the test was based on ability. I don't think that's fair - not everyone has musical talent. Still, I think everyone can learn a viola from an oboe as well as they can learn their two times tables or that Dickens wrote David Copperfield. I agree that you are fighting a losing battle if Thomas isn't behind you though. If he disagrees, then I'd probably leave the music thing between the two of them. I don't thing I could push the issue at school or at home if my child had the clear support of the other parent. I'd probably make my argument clear to both and make it clear that DH was responsible for discussing his views with the school.

Maybe you could offer Amanda some reward for "just getting through" music? If you told her that we all have to do stuff that sucks sometimes and you sympathize with her, would she be interested trying to get a different reward beyond a better music grade? Like.....musical theater tickets? Or a date out with mom and dad on her own?

[SueC]

I agree that you need Thomas to back you up. It doesn't sound like the teacher had unrealistic expectations for her. I like the idea of some type of reward to hunkering down and getting through it. Boy Kris, you've got your hands full with that one! Keep reminding yourself that all of this strong will she has will serve her well in the future!!

[Flynn]

I'm with Annie...take everything away she values. Find something that works. Not trying is unacceptable --- whether or not she thinks it's stupid.

You need Thomas' support on this for sure. What's he thinking?

What's going to happen in 9-12 grade when the grades count towards college and an F means perhaps not getting into a school she would othewise be able to attend? Thomas won't be laughing then.

Some schools don't take kids who have ever had less than a C. I've seen it happen. A kid has all Bs, B+s, and a few As, PLUS a D and an F and they tell him/her that they took the kid with "consistent" grades. The GPA is the same -- but the "effort or work ethic" suffers when a college admissions person sees a D or an F.

You and Thomas need to be a united front on this. Can he get on board with DD getting a minimum of ...whatever you guys decide? It sounds like the test was a bit of memorization. That's EASY!!! C'mon!!!

[peggyfromwastate]

Kate has struggled in Music class from time to time. This year (4th gd) she has a teacher she really likes, so she is getting an "O". In the past, she's gotten a "S" or a "S-". She also refuses to do her math. She refuses to learn her basic math facts, and she could care less if she fails a test. (Of course, they don't give "F's" here, they give "E's"....)

Anyway, we have taken to doing flashcards every night, and we have Flashcard Friday!!! 8) Isn't tht fun... On Flashcard Friday 8) she earns 5 cents for every answer she gets right, and she has about 3.5 minutes. (We are progressively cutting the time down). This is for basic multiplication, next we move to division, etc. I anticipate doing square roots when she's in HS and everything... You could devise flashcards for identifying the instruments, too. Maybe you could incorporate some CD stuff too-- we have a book that has all the orchestral instruments described (it's a cartoony-type book) and it has an audio CD that goes along with it which highlights each instrument-- developing the auditory recognition of instruments, linking with a visual image and words... I also like the "Little Einsteins" series on the Disney Channel. It's geared towards little kiddos, but Kate seems to like watching it too. They feature instruments and works of classical music, too. Mostly it's auditory, though.

Good luck! I have officially classified Kate as an "underachiever" and it drives me nuts. Mac and I are both "overachievers". I just can not wrap my brain around the idea that someone would be perfectly fine turning in an exam half-finished, because she got bored. It drives me INSANE!!!!!