The case of too much psychobabble?

I recently read an article written by a PhD psychologist who believes that our children are having behavioral problems etc thanks to too much therapy and analyzing...I though this was an interesting approach. He basically said that parents today spend too much time trying to figure out 'why' their children are behaving a certain way and then that we make excuses for them...ie, the child is stressed out, lonely, etc....and that instead of being firm with our discipline that we are letting kids off the hook.....He also said that many of the children that are referred to him by parents/teachers aren't mentally ill and aren't having psychological problems...they just aren't being disciplined....

I thought this was interesting because the discipline pendulum has really swung in the opposite direction of what it was when I was growing up. The current 'trend' is that time-out is damaging to a child's self-esteem....this method of discipline has fallen out of favor here and now parents are simply to re-direct their children......I think that's a bit over the top!

Kris
"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be."

Douglas Adams

[houseelf]

I actually got a disapproving look from the teacher of our early childhood education class when I put my son in time out for hitting a playmate in the face. Apparently, the new school of thought is that under a certain age, time out is ineffective and children should merely be "redirected".

I'm really trying to be P.C. here, but come on, how should we teach our children that hitting/biting/kicking etc. is unacceptable behavior? I really don't get this. Perhaps the child authorities will come after me, but my son has also had two swats on the butt...once for running away from us in a parking lot in front of a car and once after he was an absolute terror in the grocery store and he reached up and punched me for not giving him a cookie! (I can ONLY imagine what the other shoppers must have thought about our little tussle!)

But at some level, I am his parent. Hey, I never dreamed that my child would throw tantrums or hit. But the reality is that he is two and he is testing his boundaries. While I agree that society has a stake in how I choose to raise my child, I am the individual who is ultimately responsible for teaching him socially acceptable behavior. I know him better than anyone else. Doesn't this count for something?

Kelly

[DCJenn]

Kelly-

I wish every parent would be as responsible as you are! I
I know that there are lots of theories on child-rearing, but heck- you guys are the ones in the trenches. You know these kids better than anyone else.

My mother now says things like " I should never have hit you guys, I should have taken more time to see what the problem was, etc." I don't think she should be made to feel guilty 30 or more years after the fact for decisions that she made, such as when I was washing the cat in Tide. (at 4. with my 2 year old brother at my side. We got a spanking. The cat survived and had really dry skin.) Knowing me- I wouldn't have listened to "no". I still don't.

I don't think beating your child is what we're talking about here, either. But there are times when you as a parent need to get the message of "Danger" or "Stop" across in the quickest most meaningful way- and in a way that they'll remember.

FYI- We're not allowed to use Time Out as a behavior modification technique. It's considered aversive treatment. So I pay a PhD to come up with behavior management techniques. Some of the parents get really frustrated with us because they know what works for them, but we can't do most of the stuff parents can do in the home. If someone is abusing the telephone, like most teens tend to do, we can't take it away like most parents can. So, we end up using other things some of which can work, some not.

Jenn

This topic certainly gets a rise out of me. I am quickly learning that parenting is going to be one of the hardest jobs that I will ever undertake -and- while I have to say that who knows what I will think when the time is actually here, I can certainly say now that my kids will experience some time-outs and other disciplinary measures. I am not going to tolerate this new wave of kids rule the house/let's be friends with our kids ideology. Sure, my kids will know that I am their best friend and I will make that very obvious to them - but (especially when they are younger) they will also know that when they cross the line, they will be disciplined. A couple that we know is pregnant, also - so one night at dinner we were all discussing our pet peeves of other parents and the number one pet peeve was parents who think that what their child is doing in public is so darn cute. Example: in a Hallmark store, a child takes all of the cards down from one rack and throws them onto the floor. . .the parent laughs and goes now now now. . .message to child: this is cute behavior so keep on doing what you're doing. Another example: in restaurant, kids yell and run around while parents obliviously eat their meal ?!?! message to child: this is acceptable behavior. WHATEVER. Not in this family

[mommax3]

I work very hard to understand my kids and their motives for what they do, BUT just because I understand why Joel is annoying Luke (today's problem) doesn't mean it is acceptable. It does, however, help me figure out a punishment to fit the crime and perhaps helps me to practice preventative parenting in the future (in this case, giving Joel a little more attention because Luke is the oldest and talks non-stop and Joel gets a little lost in the shuffle because the baby gets a lot of my attention, too.)

When Luke (my oldest) was about 2, he would get overstimulated in groups of people very easily and would just melt down at the first hint of things not going his way. He had no "regulator" on his energy and would keep going until he collapsed. This is something my husband and I had figured out by "analyzing" him to figure out what made him tick. I am sure that some of those meltdowns looked like temper tantrums to others, but I was not going to punish a kid who was already at the end of his rope. I would just remove him from the action, even if it meant carrying him away while he was kicking and screaming (as it did, many times.) I finally realized that it was more important to me to be true to my kid than to be a good parent in the eyes of relative strangers.

So, I guess my point is that the analyzing is not all bad, as long as you don't stop there. It is a valuable tool for parents to use to help their kids learn and grow into socially acceptable humans! However, (in my opinion) time outs, loss of privileges, and (at times) spankings are also valuable tools, for the same reasons.

Just my .02!

Sally

[DCJenn]

Jeez- why can't we all just live near each other and just have a really fun time? You know, we all agree on just about everything.

I completely agree that removing either child or the stimulus is a great way of dealing with behavioral issues. That is one technique we ARE allowed to use. (with 1,000 people agreeing on it first, of course!) And really, as one who has emper tantrums quite often, it does work!

Claudia- I know exactly what you mean. And being married to a pediatrician means that they breed like rabbits so therefore all events have tons of kids. Most are well behaved but we have learned to provide babysitting so that the kids have a place to go so they can have fun, too. Most of the parents seem to realize that the kids are miserable in those big events, but there are a few older staff with young kids who seem so dazzled by the fact that they have produced that the poor kids are dragged everywhere.

But- I can comment all I want! I don't have any. (I'm telling you, the eggs are microscopic raisins!)

Later all-

Jenn

[Meenah]

Thank goodness mine are 17 and 18, I have definitely found the teenage years to be easier than the toddler years!! We did use time outs. I have always felt it was important to have my children learn that there are consequences to actions. The older they get, the bigger (and more dangerous) the consequnces get. When they are older and dealing with choices abouit friends, driving, parties, alcohol, etc it is imperative that they understand they have to live with the choices they make. I have always felt that my job since the day they were born was to raise them, love them, nurture them and hope they learn to function in life WITHOUT me, how sad but true. Maybe the fact that they learned consequences as youg children has made the teenage years easier for them. I'm not saying they haven't made poor choices at times, but they had to accept the consequences!! Stay tuned, I still have one more year of high school with Caroline and my story could change at any given moment.
Luanne

Wow...it's interesting that you aren't allowed to use time-out as a strategy, Jenn...

I'm telling you all, this is really a complicated issue. I would tend to agree with Sally about listening to children and analyzing..but having consequences. I think that I have often erred on the side of trying to be 'understanding' of why my children are misbehaving without then enforcing consequences. I over-compensated a lot during training because I felt guilty. For me, there is a real lesson there about understanding why AND disciplining as well.

As to the hallmark cards I hope it wasn't me you guys saw...hahahaha...just kidding! But I have a friend who doesn't have children and she is sooooooo critical of my parenting. She tells me constantly that she would do this or that differently and it drives me batty. She thinks that my children are too wild when they get to playing...the cincher was that my little 3 year old threw up a handful of rocks when we were trying to leave one day. One hit her. I apologized to her and made him apologize to her. We picked the rocks up and put them back where we got them and left...she'll never forget it! I finally told her that I am doing the best job that I can and that I, too, was a much better parent before I had children. It stopped her dead in her tracks, but she hasn't said anything to me since then.

I used to be terribly annoyed by children who were 'out-of-control' in the grocery store, etc (I used to think "get some control")....and now I just think "there, but for the grace of god, go I" Sometimes I've had parents point to my kids and tell their children "look how well-behaved those children are"...and other times...I've been practically dying of embarassment while my children act like raving maniacs....

Luanne, she's a senior already? boohoo!!!!! It goes by so fast!

Kris

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be."

Douglas Adams

Edited by: kmmath  at: 6/26/02 3:30:50 pm

[DCJenn]

Kris-

I know that there are days when even the best child is going to . They might be sick, or bored, or mom might have just had it. The ones that make me nuts are the 'chronic abusers'. I withhold judgement until I've met them at least a few times. (My cousin is the world's best example of this) Besides, I'm doomed, my dad has already wished for me a child ten times worse than I was. I might as well get the juvenile hom elined up at birth if that's the case!

Jenn

And time out can't be used because there have been serious abuses, particularly in large facilities, of people being being placed in unobserved time out and having fatal seizures and heart attack, or of staff abusing them when no one is looking. So, it's for a good reason. That and it was used as an easy way to not have to deal with someone having a behavioral problem. and those are 90% of the time attempts to communicate but we staff are too stupid to figure out what the problem is!

I was just giving you all a hard time! Actually, my mom chuckles every now and then, shakes her head and says "payback" with a big smile on her face!!!

Kris

"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be."

Douglas Adams

gee...I hope no one took that all wrong :/ I was just goofing around Sorry guys!

Kris
"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be."

Douglas Adams

[Meenah]

My mom smiles and says payback too
When my second daughter was born the nurse from the nursery brought her to me and said good luck.
Luanne

[DCJenn]

My parents want to warn all of the parents of the little red-haired girls they see on the street but then they figure no one warned them!

and my best friend is a redhead too, so combined? We were (are) quite the twosome.

[Meenah]

See my post dated 6/26/02, then read my post on 6/30 titled "At Loss". How quickly things can change.
Luanne

Wow Luanne....they can change in a heartbeat.

I think we all take life for granted sometimes. It is hard to be vigilent about enjoying every day and living in the moment....and hard to enjoy the moment if you are thinking that it might be your last.

You have given me reason to pause and be thankful for the opportunity that I have right now to be at home with my children..I truly am grateful that I can do this.

Kris
"I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be."

Douglas Adams