School conferences.....HEAVY SIGH!

[PrincessFiona]

OK reallly...awful question here....

Do you think that Amanda's...birth...might be the reason for her struggles? She had the cord wrapped around her neck and was born with an apgar 3 and then 10 min later only had a 7....I actually woke up this morning at 5 am worrying about this and couldn't get back to sleep....NOT...that I can change anything about it now.

She was deprived of oxygen before being a vac. delivery.....maybe she has brain damage?

kris

[Sheherezade]

Come ON!!!! Get a grip woman! She's fine! If you haven't noticed or had any deficits diagnosed before this, I doubt there is anything wrong. And i just don't see a specific brain injury leading to "lack of science facts" comprehension. Writing, reading....maybe. But science? No.



(Were is the emoticon for slapping someone???/)

Angie and Sally both had really good (and much more constructive) advice than I did. I can't believe I didn't mention the effect I'm sure your illness / pregnancy is having on her! I think Angie's observation is especially accurate.

Perhaps there is a montessori summer program you could use rather than the summer school? If Amanda seems to particuarly respond to their methods, that might be the best way to fill in the gaps. Even maybe using a montessori school all the way if there is one available in your area...

Good luck. I'm sorry I sounded so harsh. I know what I was like -- but I was also older than Amanda, and hadn't had general concept issues before.

[PrincessFiona]

It's not just science, Angie. She was in *gulp* special ed through 3rd grade for math and she had an awful time learning things like the alphabet, etc. She was in special ed for math and reading in k and grade 1...:! I'm so embarassed to admit it.

It's not just science...it's every single subject. Her report card was a sea of C's, D's, and F's....with a couple of B's and A's sprinkled in for the 'feel good' factor.

But...a good slap is always good.

kris

[Sheherezade]

Well. If she has deficits across the board, I'd start looking for some specific problems. Is she "with it" at home? I'm sure you know what I mean. Does she respond to complex instructions when they hold value for her? Or does that confuse her? I think "brain damaged" is such a loaded term. I fell on my head when I was 3 and lost my sight for a few days. Honestly, I'm probably "brain damaged" myself. (No surprise to anyone here, I suppose. ) I wouldn't get bogged down in why she is having trouble, but if the birth experience gives you an avenue of study then I might pursue testing for specific learning issues. Can you find a good educational psych person? Maybe you could look through the university system there for references. I don't think whatever is going on would be "garden variety". You need someone looking for zebras not horses. I still think that you can try other methods while investigating this physically. In the end, it's probably best to do this in a low key manner. After all, the last thing the girl needs is more reason to think she's damaged or stupid. Poor kid. I think the teacher has done enough of that already. Stay calm, gather your data and be a patient and caring mom. There are so many things that could be wrong beyond the physical. (Wahoo! What fun! ) Well, now that I've spread that little bit o' sunshine....I'll let you stew for awhile.

[Rapunzel]

Kris, from my place here, far away over the internet it seems like Amanda is a tactile learner - a VERY tactile learner. She had to physically touch the sugar, trace the letters, and have the positive reinforcement experience of physically licking the sugar from her hands to learn the alphabet. If that doesn't say tactile learner I don't know what does. Additionally she is learning geography by physically cutting out the shapes. That's a tactile learner.

I don't think, given the information you have, that she has a learning disability - she has a learning style that is not the average learning style for a girl. I think she's throwing everyone for a loop because she doesn't pigeon-hole nicely into the way a girl is supposed to function. She isn't primarily a verbal/auditory learner like most girls are. And, she may not exactly be a visual learner either.

This is a problem that I was reading about in Newsweek recently - that female public school teachers don't know how to teach to tactile learners (which are predominantly boys) and, thus, those types of learners (mostly boys) fall through the cracks, think they are stupid, are labeled as "difficult", etc.

Honestly, Kris, it sounds like Amanda is as frustrated as you and Thomas. And, she doesn't sound like it's a problem as in a learning disability or lack of intelligence or something. I think you might have a very, very tactile learner on your hands that thrives on physical involvement in her learning process.

[Rapunzel]

Kris, I'm going to research tactile learners today and send you some stuff via pm. Read through it and see if it applies to Amanda. :---

[PrincessFiona]

I fell on my head when I was 3 and lost my sight for a few days. Honestly, I'm probably "brain damaged" myself.

wellllll...now that you bring it up. :>

I think I've veered away from the testing because of issues you addressed, Angie. Generally speaking, it's been my experience that any child that goes in to be 'tested' comes out with some dx. And...it isn't a surprise at all that if the child goes to a diff. doctor, they can end up with a diff. dx even with the 'objective' tests available. I guess you could say that I have little faith in the system.

At home, I notice her to be very curious. She asks a lot of questions and seems to understand what is said. She IS more interested in computer games/socializing and make-up/puberty than...math though...

She is also very artistic..she draw and writes very well.

That was the one thing that I was able to bring up at conferences. Amanda was identified at one point by one of her teachers as being a very talented writer. This child writes up a storm, too. I asked the teacher how her final grade could be a C in language arts with her writing and the teacher basically said that they have very strict guidelines about what kind of writing is acceptable. They work from the standpoint of teaching specific paragraph structure and that Amanda 'refuses' to stick with it. In front of Amanda, she told me that Amanda just 'rambles'.

That is true some of the time, but I have to say that some of her stories are fabulous too....

I guess we'll figure something out. I don't want her self-esteem to be negatively impacted by this anymore....it already is...and I'm going to have to find a way to work on things with her. I've already put in a call to the principal because I'm going to ask that I get a 'home copy' of all of her text books.

kris

[PrincessFiona]

Kris, I'm going to research tactile learners today and send you some stuff via pm. Read through it and see if it applies to Amanda. :---

Thank You!

kris

[Rapunzel]

I pm'd you with more information, but here's a list of characteristics of a tactile/kinesthetic learner:

-Remember what was done, not what was seen or talked about.

-May be athletic, like swimming, cooking, running, eating, sailing, dancing, working out, massages

-May have had or are having difficulty learning to read

-May appear slow if information is not presented in their style

-Touch and movement are important

-Are poor spellers

-Are not avid readers

-Love games

-Attack things physically (fight, hit, pound)

-Impulsive

-Learn by imitation and practice

-Don't hear things well

-Touch things to get a sense of them

-Like to dress comfortably

-Like to talk about feelings

-May unconsciously touch people a lot

http://www.octc.kctcs.edu/tlc/Learning% ... rners.html

I'd have Amanda take some tests to determine how she learns best. She wants to learn, she CAN learn, and you want her to learn - desperately. The issue is figuring out how she best processes the information she is given. Once she understands how her mind works best she will be empowered. She needs that confidence it sounds like....

Kris,

Sorry about the rough time (for you and Amanda). Lots of folks have given good advice.

My two cents (worth about that much) is to support the idea of seeing a good child / learning psychologist. As others have said, it would serve the dual purpose of helping Amanda explore her feelings (school, your health, etc.) and be an avenue to get some tests performed that may give Amanda the best chance to start addressing needs that are specific to her.

I work with a child psychologist who is worth her weight in gold and if you can find someone like that in your area, it would be so great.

If I could be frank, I wonder if instead of not having "faith" in the testing / psychologists / diagnoses, if your biggest fear is really having a correct assessment of her needs which may come with what we perjoratively term a "label" and what that may do to your and to her self-esteem. Yet, there obviously are esteem issues and achievement issues that have and are going to be there -- diagnosis or not. But the possibility of a professional diagnosis and a plan outweighs any risks - IMHO.

[Vanquisher]

If I could be frank, I wonder if instead of not having "faith" in the testing / psychologists / diagnoses, if your biggest fear is really having a correct assessment of her needs which may come with what we perjoratively term a "label" and what that may do to your and to her self-esteem.

I know a few women who battled and battled against having their kids tested for fear of having them slapped with a label. These moms now tell me that having their children labeled is the best thing they ever did for them. Now these kids have access to all kinds of help, and now that there is a "diagnosis," they are able to concentrate on specific things they can do to help their children thrive.

That isn't to say that there weren't bumps and hardships and diagreements along the way. I have some friends with children all over the autism spectrum, dylexia, and one child that no one can figure out. His mother, bless her heart, really tries. This child is a behavioral nightmare. He is super gifted and smart, but they can't figure out why he is so socially inept. All kids have their issues, some more exaggerated. Some kids issues are more "acceptable." My kid has a nervous breakdown everytime anything he perceives as negative happens.

My point is, I think you need to start over with her. Figure her out, and help a good professional figure her out. When you have figured her out, then you can concentrate on how to help her, and how to help her school help her.

[PrincessFiona]

If I could be frank, I wonder if instead of not having "faith" in the testing / psychologists / diagnoses, if your biggest fear is really having a correct assessment of her needs which may come with what we perjoratively term a "label" and what that may do to your and to her self-esteem.

I'll consider that.

I basically base my feelings on my experience with Andrew though. When we moved here, he struggled to adjust and he was also having difficulty with putting on his snow pants and boots. The school called a meeting complete with social workers, etc and they insisted that we take him to a psychiatrist and a psychologist. The psychologist was basically an idiot that told us if we didn't stick it out in therapy with him, by the time he was in middle school he would be a defiant 'lost cause'. We heard all kinds of potential diagnoses and it was just...frustrating. I actually carried some of that with me for years after that, worrying anytime something went wrong that there might really be something wrong with him. I'm sure Sally could give everyone an earfull about my "do you think he has...." discussions if we had a down period.

We didn't even bother with the MD after hearing from other moms/dads about their child's ADHD diagnoses from the same guy...and subsequent other dx from other doctors. We got an ear full that year about other people's experiences. One of the moms we talked too had taken her child in to be evaluated for ADHD and had...of course...gotten the dx. She started him on Ritalin (that the school nurse had to administer at lunchtime). The child stopped being able to eat, had difficulty sleeping and started having dramatic mood swings. After about 6 weeks of "playing with doses" etc, mom said "enough is enough" and took him off of the meds without telling the teacher. She explained to the school nurse that they were going to the 'extended release' tablet and that he wouldn't be getting a dose at school.

Interestingly, the teacher then noted incredible improvements in the child's behavior and 'attention' and there was never another problem during the year. Mom was furious. This child, also is in the 5th grade now and has never had another 'attention' referral or problem.

We pulled our child out of therapy, ticked the school off because we didn't start him on ritalin...and today he is a happy, healthy 5th grader (middle school) who made straight A+'s this time around on his report card. He has no signs of ADHD, defiance or any mental health problems...at all. He is a sweet, caring boy who went through a difficult adjustment after the end of Thomas' fellowship and our move, etc.

If I had listened to the school and gotten him on medications (I shudder now when I think of this) or listened to the therapist and spent lots of time in therapy 'stigmatizing' him...would we be at the good point that we are today?

Regarding stigma: How much worse could it get? It might even be a relief to come up with a 'reason' instead of feeling bad about things that have been happening...I don't think I'm really that worried about that particular issue. If anything, Amanda has already been stigmatized by being targeted for Title 1 services in the early years and being in summer school a time or two.

Unfortunately, my bad experience with my son does color my current perception.

I just got off of the phone with the tutor who has been working with Amanda on Math. She is a 1st grade teacher at the school and she has known Amanda since she was her first grade teacher. She told me she feels that Amanda is a very tactile learner...that teachers generally don't end up having time to address that particulary style of learning, that we should have been informed long ago about these problems, and...that in her work with Amanda she actually has seen her being far ahead of her math group...not behind. She suggested Amanda might be bored or...that she is suffering from an attention problem that we could get assessed...though she said she hasn't seen it in her weekly work with Amanda.

She also told me to ignore the math summer school form...that this is a standard thing that they send out to kids who have a certain IOWA score, etc. The irony...Amanda only had 1 year where her Iowa scores were bad...since then she has done well.

I don't know. I'm going to try and take my own emotions out of it and give your post some honest thought, Kevin.

kris

[PrincessFiona]

btw...don't feel obligated to respond if you're not comfortable. This thread ended up revealing way more information than I intended it too. Sorry about that.

kris

[Rapunzel]

I think a child psychologist would be a great idea if this was a psychological problem but the chances are that it's not. I'd bet money that this is a learning style that Amanda has that her teacher(s) don't know how to address (out of ignorance or laziness). A female kinesthetic learner is NOT a common animal. They are seeing behavior problems where there are none. And, in fact, might be CREATING behavior problems by trying to label Amanda with labels that don't fit. I'd only send her to a psychologist if she has a suspected psychological problem. Right now it looks like she is behaving within a normal spectrum and just needs to learn, well, how to learn - how she learns best to be specific. Listen to her tutor - that person spent a great deal of one-on-one time with her teaching her according to her specific abilities. That's a person who would have insight into this situation most certainly.

I think as moms it is easy to get worked up emotionally over our children's perceived failings or problems - to blame them on ourselves or wonder if past seemingly tiny events came back to smack us (and them) upside the head. And, in the process, we overlook the simple, non-dramatic solution to what is probably not a big deal. I've done this - I still do it, in fact! Being a mom = feeling guilty most of the time it would appear.

Seriously, look into her learning style before you take the huge step of going to a psychologist and possibly having her negatively (and incorrectly) labeled and/or contributing to her lack of faith in herself.