What would you do?

[Sheherezade]

My daughter's second grade class is on the verge of mutiny. There are 22 kids in the class. About 6-8 of the families are concerned about curriculum being too easy and discipline issues in the classroom that have resulted in less academic time. Another 1/3 of the class are the families of said-discipline issues. They are also concerned; in many cases, their children have not had issues before and are bored with the work this year. The remaining third are undeclared. I've been getting an ear full of stories from all sides. I've talked with the teacher about my own concerns for my daughter twice now. She's very nice - but on the easy side and permissive. She has good intentions and many years of experience. She's the second grade lead teacher in our school. Many other parents have leap frogged over the teacher and complained to the school principal, the PTO, and the guidance counselor. Some are now suggesting that the group band together and complain en masse. I'm just about the whole thing.

Here's my question. Do you think that I should give the teacher a heads-up about all this? I'm honestly not sure she realizes what level this has reached. Of course, maybe she does - it's possible that the principal has contacted her. Our school is very pro-teacher, so clearly the principal will back her up. I think that's what has the parents in a tizzy. I'm working on the principal that you get more flies with honey....and that it is never good to create an adversarial relationship with your child's teacher. (Particularly at the beginning of the year. ) I've already decided to beef up my daughter's education at home, because I don't think the curriculum is going to move forward with any level of complaint. The discipline issues are a different matter. The class practices collective punishment....and it is breaking my daughter's spirit. I'm on that with the teacher and will soon be talking to the "specials" instructors and the guidance counselor. It's not fair - and it's the primary form of discipline throughout the school. That needs to change.

What do you guys think? Particularly the teachers out there? I'm very uncomfortable with the level of behind the scenes activity about this woman. She's got a good heart and good intentions. (If she didn't I'm not sure I'd feel as responsible to protect her!) Would I be sticking my nose in other's business or fanning the flames to bring up the heated talk that's gone on about her the next time we meet? Or would it help defuse a dangerous situation by letting her take control? Comments please.

My first thought? Not envious! Stuff like that is so difficult. I agree with your stance of not joining one of the groups. However, the group discipline would be a concern for me as well. It's asking too much, IMO, to use peer pressure to regulate the behavior of other kids in the class. (I was just in my daughter's classroom helping out for the first time today. Hoo-boy. Being the senior teacher can get you an interesting classroom mix!)

From what you said...I would approach the teacher directly and say that you would like to discuss this with her, get her thoughts, before it escalates further. With the "escalates further" being about the general groups and not you in particular. Sounds like you might end up talking to those other groups down the road and you should start with her first, IMO.

And, wow, this is early in the year!!

[alison]

My .02: The principal is going to (and SHOULD) initially stick up for the teacher if the parents didn't bring the problems to the teacher's attention first.

wow i'm w/nellie -- not at all envious. and surprised! knowing the district you're in, and the rep it has had in the past (although I have no trouble imagining the posse of parents getting ready to leap frog the teacher).

what is your take on the cause of the problems? is it the mixture of kids in the class / teacher getting a 'harder group' b/c of her senior status? is this 'group disipline' a newer school philosophy? I'm not really a fan of that one, either. If you've got some kids who could really care less and are just looking for the attention, they won't care that they're screwing it up for the everyone else. what do they want? a group of 2nd graders taking matters into their own hands on the playground??

now i understand where your 'mainstreaming kids sucks' comment comes from.

have you spoken w/any of the aforementioned 'groups' of parents? are they organized? are they having meetings? i agree w/alison - if they've not spoken to the parents and jump to the principal, they're asking for trouble. if they have spoken to the teacher and are not getting results, then perhaps it's time to talk to the principal.

as far as warning the teacher ... that's a tough one. you're not happy w/the status quo either, so giving a heads up may only help them get their ducks in a row to keep things as is. if you know the other parents have not addressed the teacher and are planning to go over her head, then I say go ahead an discuss it w/the teacher. you'll probably curry favor -- and possible postive change.

Sorry -- I wasn't clear. By talking about it "escalating further" you can gave a chance to convey the level of concern among parents without being a representative of it (if you would like to give her some warning and you can also find out what her thoughts are). Also, I think it is good that you talk to her before this goes any further otherwise you might get more of a defensive response than you deserve or would be helpful (not your fault, but because of the other parents moving forward).

I agree about there being memories down the road of this too.

If I understand correctly, my daughter's teacher "traded" having some of the more difficult kids for a smaller class size. Thank goodness. I can't imagine having another child in that class. Luckily, though, things seem to be under control...in a loose sort of way....

[alison]

I wouldn't alert the teacher to what's going on behind the scenes. That would put you in an undesirable (and stressful) situation of being...in the middle. I would stay out of this as much as possible, unless it's an unbearable problem that directly impacts your kiddo.

Teachers talk about students. And yes, we do have long memories, and we ask for advice from each other about "trouble" students (at the younger levels, I'm sure it applies to "students whose parents want trouble.") Even though it's college, the students who risk a lot are the ones who go above the level of the teacher to complain to coordinators/directors of programs. They're immediately put on the shit list and have a hard time getting off it. Even though everyone is entitled to be dissatisfied with an instructor, and I welcome criticism (without penalizing students), there's a way to do it and a way that is simply underhanded.

[alison]

Can you tell that I'm going to be director of the language program starting next semester...?

[Sheherezade]

There are 6 second grade classes at the school. 3 of them are grouping kids by ability and giving different math assignments. The other three--including ours--are not. The teacher says that it's just rote learning and drilling - not her bag, baby. This could be true, but I think at this point an extra work sheet or two would probably quell the mob.

The spelling is grouped, but many of the kids seem to be grouped below their ability. I've talked with her about this because my daughter has to put no effort at all in to spelling each week. She had similar words last year. They are only doing one feature and word list every two weeks, so it's very slow progress. It seems like a waste of time. Turns out that spelling evaluation was the teacher's master's thesis material. She WILL take you to the mat if you question her on that one. :> I've backed down. That's a no win.

Reading shows possibility of progress. I slammed my daughter's high reading level down her thoat in the first week by sending in our own books to replace the primers that she was giving DD. DD reads at a fourth grade level - and she was opting to stop reading all together because of the material in class. The teacher has grouped her with similar readers now and they are advancing the material by group vote. Luckily the kids are piping up about the books being on the easy side and each book gets harder.

The discipline is my sticking point of course. I think the atmosphere in the class has gotten nasty. The kids are depressed and anticipate a new round of criticism and yelling each day. DD - who wanted to be a teacher - now cries about leaving for school. That's partially coming from the staff at the school (the music teadher and librarian are on my current hit list ). I have discussed the problem with teacher (she's working on it) and the lunch staff (I got PTO motivated to assist on that front). The specials and the overarching school policy are next on my list. I'm nice.....but I will take them to the mat on this one. No- it isn't school policy - in fact, it's against the kinder gentler school philosophy they've been spouting for a few years. I've just got to get them to look in to it and affect some changes. No one I've talked to has defended the policy -- just claimed that it's not possible to figure out WHO to punish every time. Uhh, I'd settle for some of the time at this point. They basically avoid singling out kids because that's not "self-esteem" building but they've got to avoid mass punishment as well. Tricky, but....must be done.

I don't envy me, either. :>

[alison]

It sounds awful and it's screwy that politics come into play here. I hope things get resolved --for everyone's sake. Especially the kids'.

I'm not trying to defend teachers and schools. I think a whole lot of it is bullsh*t, but I'm just trying to give you a perspective on this before you get knee high in this...

If it were my kid and his/her school, then I'd rather have someone else's parent be thrown to the wolves (teachers, principal, etc.). Even though I'd like to think I'm pro-active, in this situation, it might be best to stay in the wings, on-call, so to speak.

could you get her moved to anoyher one of the 2nd grade classes? you have followed the appropriate steps, you've talked to her (on multiple occasions) & you're still not satisfied (rightfully so, it sounds). perhaps you could go to the principal w/a "this class is deteriorating into chaos, you've got a mob of parents on your hands, my daughter who was quite 'pro-education' is now crying daily, we want her moved - now".

[Sheherezade]

That's my perspective as well Alison. ITA. I'm not up for advancing to the principal or guidance counselor. I'm MORE than comfortable to keep this on a parent-teacher level. Conferences are coming up, so I think things are about to be stirred up again. Recently, the kids got docked a language class for behavior, and that set off the mob because the behavior was taking away academic time. I can see that - but I don't think a petition is going to help.

The disturbing thing is that a parent from last year tells this same story -- and ends with "I couldn't wait for the year to be over!" Me, too.

ETA: Jenn--because of the pro-teacher stance of the administration, that would never happen. Definitely works against you here to scream. Too bad the other parents don't realize that. Most people with "issues" end up opting in to private school the next year. Apparently, that's 30% of the district. Of course, some of that is unrelated to problems with the school. I have known several parent now though that went off to private schools (Hawken, Gilmour, University) after a conflict with administration.

yikes! and while Hawken, Gilmore and University are all FANTASTIC schools, most of them boast a private college-like tuition to go along with them!! CF schools shouldn't be able to totally ignore parent's concerns (especially those that carry over years) just b/c their population is largely affluent enough to switch to a high-end private academy! you guys are paying serious taxes FOR those schools!

so sad to hear that this is not the first year of this kind of problem. and in 2nd grade! is your son's class doing well?

[Sheherezade]

My son is doing great in 5th grade. His third and fourth grade years were also fine --good teachers, all. Our K year was great for DD. First grade we had issues, but I assumed they were related to our teacher being out for half the year on maternity leave. We had a long term sub that usually taught 5th grade. She had lots of trouble with control. The "real" teacher came back in January and then spent a month just working on discipline. It was horrid. I had high hopes for this year -- and frankily, this mutiny is really a buzz kill. I know there are issues, but they are surmountable. If the parents would just chill, the teacher could take the time to teach instead of fending off attacks. I also think she's gotten defensive and entrenched. *sigh* I'm just hoping that DD gets a good third grade situation. I'm trying to figure out how to word my request NOW. They're really tricky. You can't actually request anything......but you can make careful comments that lead the principal to put you in a certain room. :>

Parenting is so much fun.

Recently, the kids got docked a language class for behavior, and that set off the mob because the behavior was taking away academic time. I can see that - but I don't think a petition is going to help.

Ok, that stinks. No wonder she feels beaten down. They don't know who to punish? I'm sure it can't be that difficult to figure out. It certainly isn't the whole class. But, yeah, a group petition isn't going to solve that either. I feel for your daughter. Getting bored in school leads to a drop in performance, which further justifies placement. It's a vicious cycle.

Geez, Angie. This just stinks! October is way to early to be looking forward to next year. Sounds like you have made some headway going out on your own with the teacher, PTO, etc. Keep at it and keep fighting the good fight! Hopefully, she will see that you are being reasonable and advocating for your daughter and that your reaction is more measured and reliable than the mob. And independent of them.

Our PTO organizes parents to supervise recess and lunch (maybe just for the younger grades?). Is that what you are trying? It's hard to keep parent volunteers through the year but it does seem to help.

[Sheherezade]

Yeah.....we have a PTO staff during recess and lunch. I contacted the head of that committee to alert her to the school's staff's request for help controlling noise during dismissal to the playground. We already have the people. They just need to be told what to do. I'm good at that. :> Of course, I've tried going through channels rather than giving them a shout out myself. I'm hoping to see an email with further instruction to all the recess staff soon. Or else.

Our PTO is a huge work force at the school. I don't see why we shouldn't use that power to help when parents have concerns. Personally, I think PTO should be more thatn just free labor and a fundraising arm of the district. I think they should be able to advocate as well. Call me a rebel. PTO staffs library, recess, playground, art room, and the health clinic. They fund the entire music program and by all the computer systems. These are not people the school wants to piss off. (The mob is not made up of active PTO - but I am a very active PTO person and a committee head.) In general, the PTO leaders are the more reasonable involved parents. I think the PTO should be able to help work out issues like the lunchroom understaffing. That's an easy one. But getting the old school teachers to stop punishing an entire classroom? That's going to be more of a political battle - and one that has to go through the principle, ultimately.