Parenting the Strong Willed Child

[MsSassyBaskets]

Has anyone implemented the plan from the book "Parenting the Strong Willed Child"? We're running out of patience with DD's behavior and need to set some better parenting ground rules for consistency in discipline. She's always been strong willed, and we love that about her, but with all the changes in our lives lately it's beginning to manifest as whining, tantrums, and noncompliance. I like the first several chapters of this book because they focus on reinforcing positive behavior and ignoring benign negative behavior (boy was I practicing this yesterday when she was screaming "bootie butt!" at the top of her lungs for 15 minutes straight and laughing hysterically)... But then we get to the time out section. We've never really done time outs. We do "let's take a break in your calm down spot" during tantrums, but we don't punish bad behavior or noncompliance. We respond to misbehavior by saying no, explaining why something isn't allowed, and redirecting. Tantrums get "calm-down time" but this is in her room with toys and comforting objects. Let's admit it, we're softie parents.

But we've reached a point where a) she knows what's not allowed and she's doing it anyway, and persisting; and b) she's noncompliant with basic daily tasks like allowing me to wash her hair in the tub, allowing me to brush and braid her hair before school, brushing teeth, getting dressed, staying in her seat for meal times, etc. Those are the biggest offenses - she runs away, throws tantrums, rolls around on the floor when I'm trying to do her hair, etc. So pretty mild as misbehavior goes - she's usually not hurting anyone - but those are also essential daily tasks and I'm not going to reward her by letting them slide. She has to get out the door to daycare every day, clean and put together. So we have daily battles about it, and the battles seem to be getting worse lately, and she's digging in with more tantrums when she doesn't get her way.

I don't usually like to go all-in with specific parenting philosophies, and this book rubs me the wrong way in just a couple ways - the heavy reliance on time-outs and the lack of attention to emotional management - ignoring tantrums doesn't really teach your kid to manage their emotions, does it? But I'm at a loss for other tools. Wondering if there are other options or styles that might help here. I think we literally need a list for me and especially DH to follow, because our inconsistency really is the big problem here.

[civilspouse]

It all sounds like normal behavior. It always seems to me like we go through stages where we are struggling a ton with misbehaving and then things will improve for a while and then repeat.

I love the book Positive Discipline. It seems like it would fit perfectly with your style. They highly discourage punishment with timeout but use cool downs like you describe. I think they have one geared specifically to preschoolers too.

I will admit I am far from a perfect parent. In the heat of the moment I will send my kids to their rooms in anger but it’s usually more to give us some separation and keep me from losing my calm or keep them from hurting each other.

It sounds like you are doing great. Parenting is hard.


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[MsSassyBaskets]

I think it's the noncompliance that I'm struggling with the most, because it's not covered by "calm down time" or ignoring bad behavior. I can manage the tantrums pretty well without getting upset. But she doesn't mind at all - 90%+ of our instructions are ignored. When something is essential, we have to physically force her to comply - catch her, hold her, and wash her hands after going potty, for example. We can't, and don't want to, physically force her to do most things - it doesn't exactly work for things like brushing teeth and hair when she can just clamp her jaw or throw herself on the floor. Nor is it sustainable or positive. Letting her have her way just reinforces the behavior. I'm at a total loss for how to get her to do these things without just breaking her spirit. I'm not a "fun mom". I'm not good at making things into a game or goofing around to distract her into doing what I want. But repeated time-outs just feel like breaking her spirit and demanding obedience. I'm really torn.

[Thirteen]

Remind me, how old is she? (About 3?)


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[MsSassyBaskets]

3.5. Yes, I know this is completely normal behavior at this age. But we still have to get out the door to school every day...

Remind me, how old is she? (About 3?)


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[civilspouse]

The book I mentioned goes into a lot more than time outs. I was just saying if you don’t like they idea of them it might fits with your style. It sounds like a lot of power struggles. Here’s a blog post from the author about brushing teeth and some ideas to improve it.

http://blog.positivediscipline.com/2...again.html?m=1

We did a morning routine chart with DS and it worked really well. He helped make the chart and loved going back to it to see the next step.


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[Thirteen]

3.5. Yes, I know this is completely normal behavior at this age. But we still have to get out the door to school every day...

I was asking due to what advice would be age appropriate — trust me, zero judgment.


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[MsSassyBaskets]

Thanks, I'll check it out!

The book I mentioned goes into a lot more than time outs. I was just saying if you don’t like they idea of them it might fits with your style. It sounds like a lot of power struggles. Here’s a blog post from the author about brushing teeth and some ideas to improve it.

http://blog.positivediscipline.com/2...again.html?m=1

We did a morning routine chart with DS and it worked really well. He helped make the chart and loved going back to it to see the next step.


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[MrsK]

Parenting the Strong Willed Child

Lambie is “strong willed” and we are in an uncooperative phase with her now. She is a year older than your daughter. A few thoughts...

There is a difference between tantrums and emotional disregulation. I have a child with emotional regulation delays. He has a low frustration tolerance and poor social skills. He misunderstands social situations and becomes angry or cries easily. There is a loss of control that is different from a tantrum. We work with him (and my other children when appropriate) on social scripts, belly breathing, etc. to address emotional disregulation.

These tearful meltdowns are a lot different than tantrums. During a tantrum my children might be verbally abusive, hit or kick with the intent to injure, attempt to negotiate, check in to see if I’m annoyed or embarrassed. The tantrum is less about how they are feeling and more about how I am reacting to it, whether I will be manipulated. The tantrum would likely stop if they got their way. The child is in control whereas a child who is emotionally disregulated has lost control and they are oblivious to their impact on those around him. Tantrums are punishable behaviors. I tell my children that it’s okay to be upset/disappointed/angry. It is not ok to be mean or destructive.

With Lambie, I pick my battles (ignore benign behavior). I know that I’m simply not going to have the will to win every battle so I choose only to fight those that are essential. Dressing and hygiene like you describe fall into those categories. Somethings that work for her...

- I leave the room. If I’m trying to dress her, comb her hair, brush her teeth and she’s not cooperating. I tell her that I’m going to go and she can handle it herself if she won’t let me help. Oftentimes, she is being uncooperative because she is trying to assert her independence. So, I give her her independence. She usually begins backpedaling when I make that announcement. Sometimes, she’ll continue to be rotten when I return. Then I repeat my ultimatum and I go. Lately, she has managed to dress herself at times or she’ll seek me out to apologize and request my help after a few minutes. Either way, I get what I want and she feels like she has some autonomy.

- I engage her in competition. She is *very* competitive. So, if I tell her we are having a tooth brushing contest and get my toothbrush too. She will try to best me. Or, I pit her against her brothers and encourage her to dress quicker then them, etc.

- I reward her for compliance. I keep a glass for each kid in my kitchen window. I add rocks to the glass for every “mitzvah” or good deed they perform at home. So, getting dressed timely, brushing their hair, brushing teeth, clearing dishes, picking up toys, doing homework....basically, anything that makes the household run easily. Since there are 3 kids, I’ll count out the rocks from time to time and reward the kid who has the most rocks. So, if I’m handing out cookies, the kid with the most rock gets one first. Or if we are going to watch TV, whomever has the most rocks chooses. If I had one child, I’d offer a special reward when the glass is full of rocks.


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[MsSassyBaskets]

Good suggestions, thanks! I think we're dealing with tantrums here, with a dash of frustration intolerance. Outside of the home, she is emotionally hyper-regulated - she would never throw a tantrum at school, and often bottles things up until she gets home and lets loose. Usually tantrums happen after we say "no" or don't do something the way she wants, or we try to do something she doesn't want. DH was on the receiving end of a screaming, crying, stomping fit this morning when he put her plate on the table for breakfast (she wanted to do it herself, I think?)... She's getting better at expressing herself (screaming "no! I didn't want you to do that!" in the midst of her tantrum...) so we can usually tell what the frustration is.

Unfortunately, if I were to leave her room and tell her to get ready on her own, she would just go play and would refuse to comply again the next time I came in. I'd never make it to work on time. Competition and reward do work OK for us - I'm thinking some kind of reward chart is probably in our future.

Lambie is “strong willed” and we are in an uncooperative phase with her now. She is a year older than your daughter. A few thoughts...

There is a difference between tantrums and emotional disregulation. I have a child with emotional regulation delays. He has a low frustration tolerance and poor social skills. He misunderstands social situations and becomes angry or cries easily. There is a loss of control that is different from a tantrum. We work with him (and my other children when appropriate) on social scripts, belly breathing, etc. to address emotional disregulation.

These tearful meltdowns are a lot different than tantrums. During a tantrum my children might be verbally abusive, hit or kick with the intent to injure, attempt to negotiate, check in to see if I’m annoyed or embarrassed. The tantrum is less about how they are feeling and more about how I am reacting to it, whether I will be manipulated. The tantrum would likely stop if they got their way. The child is in control whereas a child who is emotionally disregulated has lost control and they are oblivious to their impact on those around him. Tantrums are punishable behaviors. I tell my children that it’s okay to be upset/disappointed/angry. It is not ok to be mean or destructive.

With Lambie, I pick my battles (ignore benign behavior). I know that I’m simply not going to have the will to win every battle so I choose only to fight those that are essential. Dressing and hygiene like you describe fall into those categories. Somethings that work for her...

- I leave the room. If I’m trying to dress her, comb her hair, brush her teeth and she’s not cooperating. I tell her that I’m going to go and she can handle it herself if she won’t let me help. Oftentimes, she is being uncooperative because she is trying to assert her independence. So, I give her her independence. She usually begins backpedaling when I make that announcement. Sometimes, she’ll continue to be rotten when I return. Then I repeat my ultimatum and I go. Lately, she has managed to dress herself at times or she’ll seek me out to apologize and request my help after a few minutes. Either way, I get what I want and she feels like she has some autonomy.

- I engage her in competition. She is *very* competitive. So, if I tell her we are having a tooth brushing contest and get my toothbrush too. She will try to best me. Or, I pit her against her brothers and encourage her to dress quicker then them, etc.

- I reward her for compliance. I keep a glass for each kid in my kitchen window. I add rocks to the glass for every “mitzvah” or good deed they perform at home. So, getting dressed timely, brushing their hair, brushing teeth, clearing dishes, picking up toys, doing homework....basically, anything that makes the household run easily. Since there are 3 kids, I’ll count out the rocks from time to time and reward the kid who has the most rocks. So, if I’m handing out cookies, the kid with the most rock gets one first. Or if we are going to watch TV, whomever has the most rocks chooses. If I had one child, I’d offer a special reward when the glass is full of rocks.


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[Thirteen]

When it’s control-related, I simply remove either myself or the individual from their intended audience.
I’m also a big fan of love and logic approaches, sprinkled with natural consequences. (Obviously, this is not the case if we have a safety compliance issue: I don’t let them run into the street or away from me in a crowded space)

Yes to visual charts and inflated rewards.


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[MrsK]

Good suggestions, thanks! I think we're dealing with tantrums here, with a dash of frustration intolerance. Outside of the home, she is emotionally hyper-regulated - she would never throw a tantrum at school, and often bottles things up until she gets home and lets loose. Usually tantrums happen after we say "no" or don't do something the way she wants, or we try to do something she doesn't want. DH was on the receiving end of a screaming, crying, stomping fit this morning when he put her plate on the table for breakfast (she wanted to do it herself, I think?)... She's getting better at expressing herself (screaming "no! I didn't want you to do that!" in the midst of her tantrum...) so we can usually tell what the frustration is.

Unfortunately, if I were to leave her room and tell her to get ready on her own, she would just go play and would refuse to comply again the next time I came in. I'd never make it to work on time. Competition and reward do work OK for us - I'm thinking some kind of reward chart is probably in our future.

I have also done, “the bus is leaving!....I’m your ride so you better be ready when I am. She has once or twice rushed to the car with her clothes in her hands, gone to school with her hair a mess, had to sit on the sideline because she refused to get ready for swim class or dance, etc. She doesn’t like it. It’s a logical consequence.

I also try to give her choices I can live with. I’ll offer two dresses (or the dress I want and an alternative I know she will refuse) so she feels like it’s her choice. If she refuses to choose, I tell her I’m counting down from 5 and if she doesn’t choose, I’ll choose. I do the countdown when she’s non compliant in other ways too. For instance, with the refusal to dress, I may say “I’m leaving for 5 minutes. If you don’t do it yourself, I’m doing it for you when I get back.”


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[MrsK]

Good suggestions, thanks! I think we're dealing with tantrums here, with a dash of frustration intolerance. Outside of the home, she is emotionally hyper-regulated - she would never throw a tantrum at school, and often bottles things up until she gets home and lets loose. Usually tantrums happen after we say "no" or don't do something the way she wants, or we try to do something she doesn't want. DH was on the receiving end of a screaming, crying, stomping fit this morning when he put her plate on the table for breakfast (she wanted to do it herself, I think?)... She's getting better at expressing herself (screaming "no! I didn't want you to do that!" in the midst of her tantrum...) so we can usually tell what the frustration is.

Unfortunately, if I were to leave her room and tell her to get ready on her own, she would just go play and would refuse to comply again the next time I came in. I'd never make it to work on time. Competition and reward do work OK for us - I'm thinking some kind of reward chart is probably in our future.

Also, with tantrums....K2 is an angel at school and has tantrums at home. He cuts loose with me because he trusts me. There are times that I’ll ask, “would you speak to your teacher like that,” “what would your friends think if they saw you now,” or “what do you think would happen if you did that at school.” He is a high social monitor so it clicks for him when I remind him that his behaviors are not socially tolerated. I’ve also asked gone with the Dr. Phil question....”So, how’s that working for you?” They are old enough to know that I’ve never given in to a tantrum so it’s not an effective strategy. Just something to keep in your back pocket for when she’s older.


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[PrincessFiona]

Lambie is “strong willed” and we are in an uncooperative phase with her now. She is a year older than your daughter. A few thoughts...

There is a difference between tantrums and emotional disregulation. I have a child with emotional regulation delays. He has a low frustration tolerance and poor social skills. He misunderstands social situations and becomes angry or cries easily. There is a loss of control that is different from a tantrum. We work with him (and my other children when appropriate) on social scripts, belly breathing, etc. to address emotional disregulation.

These tearful meltdowns are a lot different than tantrums. During a tantrum my children might be verbally abusive, hit or kick with the intent to injure, attempt to negotiate, check in to see if I’m annoyed or embarrassed. The tantrum is less about how they are feeling and more about how I am reacting to it, whether I will be manipulated. The tantrum would likely stop if they got their way. The child is in control whereas a child who is emotionally disregulated has lost control and they are oblivious to their impact on those around him. Tantrums are punishable behaviors. I tell my children that it’s okay to be upset/disappointed/angry. It is not ok to be mean or destructive.

With Lambie, I pick my battles (ignore benign behavior). I know that I’m simply not going to have the will to win every battle so I choose only to fight those that are essential. Dressing and hygiene like you describe fall into those categories. Somethings that work for her...

- I leave the room. If I’m trying to dress her, comb her hair, brush her teeth and she’s not cooperating. I tell her that I’m going to go and she can handle it herself if she won’t let me help. Oftentimes, she is being uncooperative because she is trying to assert her independence. So, I give her her independence. She usually begins backpedaling when I make that announcement. Sometimes, she’ll continue to be rotten when I return. Then I repeat my ultimatum and I go. Lately, she has managed to dress herself at times or she’ll seek me out to apologize and request my help after a few minutes. Either way, I get what I want and she feels like she has some autonomy.

- I engage her in competition. She is *very* competitive. So, if I tell her we are having a tooth brushing contest and get my toothbrush too. She will try to best me. Or, I pit her against her brothers and encourage her to dress quicker then them, etc.

- I reward her for compliance. I keep a glass for each kid in my kitchen window. I add rocks to the glass for every “mitzvah” or good deed they perform at home. So, getting dressed timely, brushing their hair, brushing teeth, clearing dishes, picking up toys, doing homework....basically, anything that makes the household run easily. Since there are 3 kids, I’ll count out the rocks from time to time and reward the kid who has the most rocks. So, if I’m handing out cookies, the kid with the most rock gets one first. Or if we are going to watch TV, whomever has the most rocks chooses. If I had one child, I’d offer a special reward when the glass is full of rocks.


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Everything you say is good advice. I just hD to chuckle though. When my kids were younger, we did marble jars until I discovered Amanda was stealing marbles and putting them in her jar.

Kris


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[SoonerTexan]

Oh man...that age. DS2 is just getting out of that and DS3 is diving right into it. I always forget how hard it is until an old Facebook post will remind me! My oldest had her moments, but DS2 really threw me for a loop.

FWIW, time outs never really worked for us. Yes as a "you need to go calm down by yourself, spend some time in your room alone and play." But "You will sit in here for 5 minutes as a punishment" resulted in the child openly rebelling and/or stewing something fierce. I found my boys (especially my middle child) responded best to distraction or just sitting and rocking it out if they were really melting down. Sometimes it was me holding onto a thrashing child for dear life rocking them and telling them, "I know you are feeling upset and you want to go but we cannot leave until you calm down and I cannot allow that behavior"

One thing I did take away from a book I read a long time ago and things my sister (who was the defiant child) has told me is to remember that the big feelings they are feeling (loss, anger, being scared, feeling out of control) are absolutely real and valid, even if the reason is illogical or the result of something that she just has to do (go to do school, get in the carseat). You can still validate those feelings and not be giving into the bad behavior. My kids always responded extremely positively to this sort of reaction from me. The key is it required time and a lot of emotional control on my part and I struggle with that.

But you're right, sometimes you just have to go to bed/leave the house/make it through the restaurant and you cant do what you would like to. I will freely admit I didn't always (and still don't) handle that well. Sometimes picking up the screaming child under your arm and making your way out the door is the unfortunate only choice, so don't feel bad about that.

Other things that helped:

--Giving them choices ("which of these two shirts do you want to wear" "Do you want to brush first or do you want mommy to brush first")
--Sticker charts. I'd print out a piece of paper with a table of square and a picture of the prize they were earning at the top. Stickers are earned based on whatever we are working on at the time. For a long time with DS2, it was just making it through the day intact. They could also lose stickers too. That was a loss they really felt hard and tried to avoid.

If it makes you feel better, last night I got my nearing 3 year old to let me brush his teeth by asking if he wanted the buggies to poop on them and make boo boos (cavities). So I brushed his teeth while yelling, "DIE BUGGIES, DIE!" The things we do...