First time

[peggyfromwastate]

I volunteered regularly in the twins kindergarten class and I remember the same geometry unit back then... Except 3 years ago when they were there (same school) they were only supposed to be introduced to 3-D shapes. The teacher was happy if they saw a "ball" shape rather than a "circle". The 3-D shapes were in terms of cube (that's pretty easy), cone, sphere (Ball was OK), and Box (not "rectangular prism"). And it was all done with matching/coloring exercises. And according to the teacher, 3-D is a difficult concept for lots of kids, so if they got it, great, if not, ok.

This homework sheet was like what my kids got in 2nd grade. Just not appropriate for Kinder.

I find it truly puzzling why kids seem to know less *basic* stuff now when they graduate than they did years ago. Maybe it's because they know sooo much techy stuff? We didn't even have internet when I went to high school. Graphing calculaters weren't common either. We didn't quite use slide rules for calc, but you get my drift...

I don't blame the teachers at all. It's becoming more and more clear that elementary school is all about teaching to the test, at least here it is. And the school's fortune is tied to the kids' test taking abilities, so there is huge stress put on the kids for the big tests.

[Sheherezade]

My main problem with curriculum and homework within our public schools is that it is all so inconsistent. The math program from K-6 operates on a "spiral". It did a lot for my understanding of the teaching when this was explained to me. Subjects are brought up once, left for awhile, brought up again, left again, etc. So, my K might get geometry and fractions at a K level...and then get them again at a first grade level.... and so on. I don't like this system of teaching. I prefer to have the topics taught completely and then a new, more advanced topic taught next. That said, I'm not an education expert and the "spiral" design is supposed to work well for kids. I breathe a sigh of relief when my children hit 6th grade and enter the standard pre-algebra, algebra, geometry, algebra II, trig, calculus progression. It makes more sense to me and the I feel that their learning is concentrated and focused. The whole spiral business feels very ADHD to me.

As for homework here, it differs dramatically from grade to grade. We've had years in which there was the standard 10 minute per grade level amount of homework -- and then we've had fifth grade. Man, that is the worst year for homework! Sometimes, my daughter has 2-3 hours. Solid. In our district, we do have study halls. That helps. My son has never played an instrument in the band so he has always been able to have a full study hall. He (honestly) has too little homework by my estimation in eighth grade. My daughter does have band, so she only gets a sporadic study hall (three times a week). I wonder if she will continue to struggle with the extra work throughout her school years because she doesn't get the 45 minutes of quiet class time to do the work at school during a study hall. If so, I hope the clarinet is worth the stress!

I agree with Kelly that it is INSANE that the kids are in school for 7 hours a day and still can't accomplish the little amount of learning each day that is laid out for them. This is the issue that always pushes me towards homeschool. Public school classrooms are just so inefficient. I think that if we were less PC in the public schools, we'd get more done more quickly. For example, I'm a big fan of "tracking" kids starting around 4-5th grade. Maybe later. Still, that isn't done and the utopian goal to have every kid/every level in the same environment makes the job of teaching more difficult. The individualized instruction required by this classroom eats up time. Kids wait while others are taught at an appropriate level. That waiting time is lost time. *sigh* I'm happy with what I see in the high school because it is more like a junior college. There are lots more course offerings and kids can individualize their experience. The problem with public education is that education doesn't work well with a "one size fits all" approach--- and teachers can't customize well when the curriculum is handed down to them from D.C.

[houseelf]

This is the issue that always pushes me towards homeschool.

I have become a closet homeschooler myself who just happens to send her kids to a montessori. It has become clear to me that if you want your kids to know the basics you had better help them out at home because for myriad reasons, it isn't happening at school. I don't mind supplementing my kids' education at all. I call that engaged parenting. It is my honor to help my kids learn. Still, I do mind having homework assigned to ME. Reading minutes, worksheets, and the like are just busy work. Let's be honest, HW before 5th grade is assigned to the parents because a five year is not developmentally able to complete the work on her own. Heck, most primary students aren't even reading well enough to comprehend the instructions on the worksheet until second grade.

Clearly, I'm pretty passionate about this issue. I've been hanging out with my radical unschooling friend a lot lately.

[MrsK]

FWIW, BabyK (15 WEEKS OLD) was sent home from daycare last week with an Easter basket and homework! We had to trace our hands -- mom and dad too, fill out a worksheet with questions like "what's his favorite color?" and "what's his favorite sports team?", send a new photograph of him, and send his "favorite" book to school. I'm all in favor of early education and I love that his program includes enrichment activities, but I really had to restrain myself from making smartss responses on the worksheet.

BTW, I don't think I've ever had to know what a retangular prisim is. Kindergarten geometry should be 2-D shapes.

[scrub-jay]

FWIW, BabyK (15 WEEKS OLD) was sent home from daycare last week with an Easter basket and homework! We had to trace our hands -- mom and dad too, fill out a worksheet with questions like "what's his favorite color?" and "what's his favorite sports team?", send a new photograph of him, and send his "favorite" book to school. I'm all in favor of early education and I love that his program includes enrichment activities, but I really had to restrain myself from making smartss responses on the worksheet.

BTW, I don't think I've ever had to know what a retangular prisim is. Kindergarten geometry should be 2-D shapes.

I commend your restraint on the responses!

[HouseofWool]

So far, we have been fairly lucky with the homework situation. For Caleb, in first grade, he is assigned, nightly, 15 minutes of reading, a spelling list of approximately 10 words and 2 poems (one set of poems per week). Now that he is reading independently, he can do most of the homework with only minimal guidance. That is, he sits in the room where I am working (typically the kitchen, washing dishes) and reads both the poems and a book. But to be perfectly honest, there are plenty of nights where I just sign off on his homework and send him out to play instead. He is 7 and the thought of making him stay inside and work, albeit for a short period of time, instead of building snowforts or riding his bike is just plain asinine. Given the limited daylight hours, just when is he supposed to fit in his 60 minutes of physical play that is now advocated?

My biggest gripe with the math curiculum that is being taught is that they have dumbed it down so much that it hurts. They use all sorts of "soft" "friendly" words like number buddies instead of addends. Is it a bad thing to each kids the correct terms? For addition it is mind boggling. If the math problem is 7+2=? they are instructed to hold up 2 fingers and count from 7 by tapping each finger against their head until they have used all of the fingers being held up. While I don't have an issue with counting on their fingers, they are just first graders, I shudder to think that they will still be doing it against their heads when they enter the workforce. Old habits are hard to break and this one irks me to no end.

I also get that I am fortunate in that Caleb is pretty far ahead of the curve academically. The kid is starting to do multiplication in his head. I also realize that in first grade, the majority of the kids still need the help. But again, why confuse things and use fluffy terminology that they will need to re-learn at some point?

While I have NO desire to homeschool, I can see how parents feel pushed into that decision.

[HouseofWool]

FWIW, BabyK (15 WEEKS OLD) was sent home from daycare last week with an Easter basket and homework! We had to trace our hands -- mom and dad too, fill out a worksheet with questions like "what's his favorite color?" and "what's his favorite sports team?", send a new photograph of him, and send his "favorite" book to school. I'm all in favor of early education and I love that his program includes enrichment activities, but I really had to restrain myself from making smartss responses on the worksheet.

BTW, I don't think I've ever had to know what a retangular prisim is. Kindergarten geometry should be 2-D shapes.

I always fill those out with smart assed answers. Favorite book, hmmm, complete works of Shakespeare, or Soylent Green.

[fluffhead]

I've really loved reading your responses to this topic - it's interesting to see these thoughtful opinions from parents. It sounds like there is a good amount of resentment of "makework," but a recognition that sometimes homework is valuable. I know that I see some absolutely moronic assignments in the lower grades for my kids, but they seem to get some satisfaction out of completing them. I guess there's some lesson there somewhere.
In the HS where I teach, kids are up till the wee hours completing HW. I tell them to try to complete mine, but to stop after one hour. I will say that the poor performers are frequently the ones who don't complete assignments.
Regarding the curriculum, I apologize for characterizing your approach as "dumbing down." I disagree that 3-d figures should be avoided until the later grades - it's the only way to relate geometry to the real world! and BOX is a wonderful word to replace "rectangular prism" !!!
Thanks all for sharing your experiences.
Back to grading papers and cleaning poop.

[HouseofWool]

I've really loved reading your responses to this topic - it's interesting to see these thoughtful opinions from parents. It sounds like there is a good amount of resentment of "makework," but a recognition that sometimes homework is valuable. I know that I see some absolutely moronic assignments in the lower grades for my kids, but they seem to get some satisfaction out of completing them. I guess there's some lesson there somewhere.
In the HS where I teach, kids are up till the wee hours completing HW. I tell them to try to complete mine, but to stop after one hour. I will say that the poor performers are frequently the ones who don't complete assignments.
Regarding the curriculum, I apologize for characterizing your approach as "dumbing down." I disagree that 3-d figures should be avoided until the later grades - it's the only way to relate geometry to the real world! and BOX is a wonderful word to replace "rectangular prism" !!!
Thanks all for sharing your experiences.
Back to grading papers and cleaning poop.

Glad to hear your response on this Fluff. I would agree that using real-world words instead of geometric terminology makes sense in the lower grades. Ball vs sphere, box vs cube or rectangular prisim (which is a new one to me). It is the pattern of dumbing down so many other things that drives me crazy. Age appropriate - yes. Idiot prooof - NO. Teaching to the test is wrong but so is making everyone an A student. I don't know what the right response is, but I do find it frustrating.

[DCJenn]

Honestly, this year our problem is that Nikolai is bored out of his ever-loving mind and therefore has become the class clown. Great. His kindergarten teacher told me at the first conference, "he's forcing me to be a better teacher." I can tell you that I'm researching all of our options if it looks like the supposed "G/T" program for the first graders is BS. I don't need him getting kicked out of elementary school for bad behavior based on his utter boredom. His piano teacher has actually been really helpful because she understands that 1) he's six 2) he does have an amazing aptitude and 3) no, really, he's only six. She has us doing his practice twice a day for 10-15 minutes, once in the am before school and once in the pm. She's also sent home different music books and told him that he can play whatever he wants just for fun, in addition to the songs he's learning that week. I hope that we can find other teachers who 'get' him so well.

Anyway, there's a music and arts magnet elementary school within the district that if first grade doesn't seem to be challenging him, I'll try to move him. His school is the foreign language magnet and I'd hate to lose that but better that then heading down the path of misbehaving = attention. There's always crunchy school, up until 5th grade if necessary.

Parenting- who knew the stuff that would keep you awake at night.

Jenn

[poky]

Saw this today and thought of this thread - I'm guessing it doesn't matter as much in classes where all the kids are roughly at the same socioeconomic level, but I think MOST schools have a mix:

http://www.bakadesuyo.com/does-homew...sen-inequality

[Meenah]

Peggy,
What was the response, if any, you received from the teacher?

[peggyfromwastate]

Nothing really. It's not a big deal- she just gives out the homework but doesn't "grade" it or anything. I'm not even sure she noticed that the homework wasn't done-- I'd written on the homework that it was beyond Luke's ability so I had him circle whatever he wanted...

Sandy, that litle snippet is interesting, but I can't say it's that surprising.

They do crazy math around here, and so my 3rd graders are learning different methods for working out long division and regrouping-multiplication stuff. We, the parents, are sent home worksheets on how to explain to them these new methods of teaching and then we, the parents, are supposed to help them with their homeweork using the new method. Steven is having over 50 problems of long division made much longer by this new method at a time, which takes him about 1.5 hours to do, because he needs to *check his work* long hand also...

I had to force him to stop doing his work the other night-- he was in tears over the frustration of so much stuff. Finally I let him finish the last 15 problems, but I told him he couldn't *check his work*. Enough already!!!

This is the new method.

If you have 8756 divided by 29, you have to round the 29 down to 20, then think how many 20s can fit into 8000, so on and so forth. It adds so many steps, and so many places where you can make a tiny little error. And some problems have remainders so you don't really know if you've messed up.

Sigh.

This is the new method.

If you have 8756 divided by 29, you have to round the 29 down to 20, then think how many 20s can fit into 8000, so on and so forth. It adds so many steps, and so many places where you can make a tiny little error. And some problems have remainders so you don't really know if you've messed up.

Sigh.

That's actually how I do it. It's good for mental math (although I'd figure out how many go into 8600, not 8000), but I'm surprised they're using it as a teaching method. I will say I'd appreciate if our school sent home work with an explanation of their "methods". We get stuff and when the kids ask for help, they get all mad b/c we're not doing it the right way.