3rd grade math help

[peggyfromwastate]

Ugh.

Every time I have to do word problems with my 3rd grader I want to just die. It's so hard. So frustrating.

This is an example of a problem:

Bob has 3 bookshelves that hold a total of 27 books. He adds a fourth shelf and now has 36 books. If he adds 2 more shelves, how many books can he have total?

Luke has no clue what to do. None whatsoever. These kinds of problems always just kill him. On Wednesdays he has an entire sheet of word problems, without fail. He can plow through regular math problems, but word problems are so tough. And way worse now that he's expected to know how to do subtraction, addition, multiplication, and division.

Any help? Should I get a tutor? I don't know how in the world to explain these to him. We try drawing pictures, we try using real object, but he just ends up crying and I end up coaching him step by step how to answer these problems... It's not productive.

Ugh. Help. Kill me now...

For what it's worth, I don't remember problems like this with my other kids. Not sure if it's a California thing or if they were just able to solve the problems without any assistance...

[L.Jane]

The long way I would do it is like you said, drawing pictures. Have him draw three bookshelves. (Three rectangles.) Have him divide the 27 books between the three book shelves (you can use the 'one for you, one for you, one for you method until he reaches 27). Then have him see how many books are on each book shelf (this should come out to 9. Have him draw a fourth rectangle and add the nine books to that rectangle. If he counts those nine with the original 27, he will have 36. then do this again with two more shelves... Its a retarded way of having him do division/multiplication. A better word problem would be, if I have 36 books and 4 book cases, how many books would I put on each shelf so that all shelves have an equal amount of books? How many books could I have if I added two more bookcases? The wording in that other one is just confusing.

If you already do all of this, then yes, I would say a tutor, because sometimes kids just dont like to listen to mom... I always had to have a tutor because of this. Also, there might be more issues with the word problems. A tutor might be able to figure out where he is getting stuck.

[Michele]

Do you think he would understand algebra? Completely skipping the drawings? 3b=27 4b=36 4b+2b=? My dad started teaching me math like that pretty young and I grasped it and wondered why they wouldn't just use formulas instead of wordy paragraphs....certainly not all kids think like that, but maybe he does??

[diggitydot]

Could it be all the extraneous language causing a problem? I notice with our little guy (who had a language disorder) that regular equations are easy, but word-based problems throw him for a loop.

I usually help our little guy with these types of word problems by walking him through things by first figuring out which info is necessary and which is not. Then I show him how to search for clues in the questions that tell him what kind of information they're seeking -- ie, difference, how many, total, etc. He can usually work it out after this point.

[spotty_dog]

I see this problem not as complicated division and multiplication, but rather of pattern recognition. Can you give him a similar but simpler problem? I just quizzed my (math-obsessed) DS with this one. "Joe has two TOTALLY FULL bookshelves. There are 6 books on the two shelves. Then he adds one more bookshelf and when it's TOTALLY FULL, he's got 9 books. Now how many books can he fit if he adds ONE MORE bookshelf?" DS saw the pattern and took for granted that each shelf had 3 books, so he told me he would figure it out by counting on from 9. "Ten, eleven, twelve!"

If "3;27" and "4;36" don't spark something for him, then I'm thinking maybe times table practice (maybe even do a little bit of fun quiz/drilling before homework time?) might be on the docket. I used to be opposed to rote memorization, but with DS we're finding that sometimes it can be fun, useful, and rewarding just to KNOW at the tip of one's tongue all the ways to add to 19, for example.

On the other hand, I'm still anti-homework. Extra practice of a well-covered topic I kind of get, but relatively new coverage of an unfamiliar topic is simply not homework-appropriate IMO. So my reaction to a child bringing home homework that they were really lost on, would be to be a bit frustrated; at this idealistic stage where my kids are still small, I would like to say my next step would be to affirm the child and return the homework undone, perhaps with a note to the teacher. I know your DS feels anxious about his grades and homework completion though. I'm sorry.

khanacademy.org?

[peggyfromwastate]

I had to email the teacher for another issue-- so I just asked about these word problems too.

She always says he's "grade level" for math, but I consistently see him really struggle with word problems.

Last year in standardized testing he was strong in charts and analyzing graphs. This year? Totally can't do it. Just doesn't get it and if he doesn't get something right away he gets totally frustrated and upset. Anxiety kicks in and then it's very hard for him to do anything.

He pretty much had his times tables down but I let him use the cheat shear during homework. It speeds up the process.

I wonder if this does come from a tutor or someone if they will be able to help him see these problems as fun--- or at least help him find creative ways to solve them.

The problems that say "explain your reasoning" are really really hard for him as well.

Sigh.

This has not been a stellar afternoon!!

[Deebs]

What about letting him use manipulatives? Little blocks or even Legos can be used to represent the objects. A tutor might help, and it might also help take a load off of you.

[peggyfromwastate]

I like the idea of Legos as manipulatives. We used the abacus for addition and it did help.

I also like LSWs approach of who the hell cares?? Lol.

I have a very tough time with a lot of the problems because they are poorly worded. They should say that he has an equal number of books on each shelf, but they don't. I know my ds doesn't just jump there. When he was drawing out the diagram to visualize the problem he tried putting all the books on one shelf. I told him to split it up evenly bc I saw where they were going, but his mind doesn't see every book as being the same size/width/height so his mind doesn't automatically put equal books on each shelf.



You guys have given me a lot to think about!!

And my dd17 is not a math person at all--- I have come to peace with that. Even though math was really easy to me and dh, I see that it's just not intuitive to everyone and that's just fine--- really all the math I've learned helps me not at all. I'm still spending most if my time on elementary school math anyway!!!

[GreyhoundsRUs]

http://assets.pearsonschool.com/asse...ph_24324_1.pdf

Word problems suck and are very difficult unless you have a decent number sense (which I don't expect a 3rd grader to have). The above may help him organize information. Manipulatives only go so far - you don't want piles of 100 Legos, plus kids tend to lose count and get frustrated.