Relationship aggression and letting the parents know

[houseelf]

I'm really torn. DD has witnessed MULTIPLE instances of mean girl behavior. Some of it has been directed towards her and some she has seen heaped on other girls. I could give about a dozen examples, but for brevity here are a few: "We're going to the amusement park this weekend, and you are not invited", "If you are going to spend time with G you aren't in our group", "I'm having a sleepover, You are invited but I is not because she isn't being nice."

This went on for awhile and I listened, told my daughter to choose kindness and affirmed that that wasn't a group she wanted to be in anyway. At one point I thought about alerting the teacher because it is a weekly thing. My normal M.O. with school is to make the kids contact their teachers regarding whatever is happening because they need to learn how to figure things out. In this instance, however, I'm contemplating a phone call to mean girls mom who I've only met a few times in passing. Something along the line of, "Hi this is K, K's mom. I was wondering if I could ask you about something. This is a bit uncomfortable for me and I'm sure I haven't heard the whole story, but if it were me I would want to know. K has told me that B has been directing who is in the group of friends and who is not allowed to play. I'm sure that some of this is due to social immaturity, but I was wondering if you knew that some of these things were going on and what your take on it was. Perhaps there is something I can discuss with my daughter..."

Anyway, is this crazy. My running partner thinks this is a TERRIBLE idea. Call me an idealist but I feel like as an adult we have to help these kids learn how to be their best selves. Of course they are socially immature and unaware of how to navigate multiple friends and whether they belong in the group. We have to help them. On the other hand, this plan could totally backfire and make it worse for my daughter. What do you all think? Although this isn't my first kid, this is my first foray into girl aggression. Ideas? Help? Commiseration?

[Ladybug]

In my experience mean girls come from meaner moms. It's learned behavior

ETA: behavior issues can also be secondary to impulse or emotional issues too, but these tend to unfold slowly over time.

I wouldn't call the mom, but I would notify teacher and ask for a meeting with teacher/counselors to discuss antibullying policies and strategies. When there is a problem group identified our counselor will push in and pull out to help them successfully navigate these waters

[scrub-jay]

In my experience mean girls come from meaner moms. It's learned behavior

This was my exact thought.


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[Ladybug]

Added more thought above

[GrayMatterWife]

FWIW, I agree with your running partner. Stay out of it. What could you accomplish other than to make it worse for you daughter? If these girls are bitchy and petty and nasty, they learned it from somewhere--either their parents directly or via the TV/movies by parents' lack of appropriate supervision. That ain't gonna change because you point out (indirectly) to the parents that their daughters are bitchy. Focus on teaching your daughter how to respond to mean girl behavior and how to be a person of character. And how to deal with the rejection she is going to encountering by being that person that you've so amply raised her to be.

[Meenah]

Holy crap, I have no idea. Perhaps talk to the guidance counselor at school??? Of course that could backfire too.

[HouseofWool]

Honestly? I would start with the teacher. I know our school situation is odd, but I have a good rapport with most of the teachers (and a phenomenal one with C's current teacher *ahem*). But, I would start the conversation along the lines of "K has mentioned several times (x,y,z) and I wanted to talk to you to find out if you are seeing the same behaviors."

C has been having issue with a kid in class who is so disrespectful to teachers that C comes home in tears over it. I talked to his teacher and it turns out they are all well aware of the issue and are working diligently with the kid, including regular behavior check-ins with the teacher and the principal.

While it would be awesome if parents could call about things like this (and I too would like to be notified - I can totally see S trying on this behavior for size because she has a leader type personality), I have to agree that these types of behaviors are generally learned at home. And no way in Hades, would I want to get into that conversation with the mom.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I agree on not calling the mom. For all you know, the mom could tell her daughter and the girl will make it worse for your DD. I know it's troubling to think about but it happened to me.

When I was 16, I had plans to stay near school after a dance (60 min drive) but ended up driving home when my friends decided to sneak their BFs into their houses and told me there was no room (I didn't have a BF so I was the odd one out). My parents woke up to find me home and when they yelled at me for driving home in the middle of the night, I told them what happened. I just wanted to drop it, I was mortified that my friends had ditched me and called attention to my single status. My mom, concerned about safety, called the girls moms. Of course they got in trouble for sneaking the boys in and I was a pariah for 6 months. I HATED my mom for not letting me handle it - I had already worked it out at school and my friend had apologized but then my mom called and she got super pissed that I got her in trouble. I just wanted her to let me handle it!!!


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[ides]

Yes. Don't contact the mom. Teach your daughter how to defend herself and behave in those situations. This is pretty normal mean behavior. I had it for several years from approximately age 10 - 16. People and kids are mean assholes.

[Sheherezade]

I'd stick with talking to the teacher or appropriate administrator. I'd only approach the parent if I knew them already and felt that might work. Even then, I'd word it differently - because, frankly, I've learned that my daughter's presentation of things isn't always totally accurate. I've been bitten in the ass before when I've gone to a parent on a less sticky issue and found some little embelishment in my daughter's tale that changes everything for me. (Such fun mid sticky conversation..... imagine the SNL "Never Mind" lady. )

Teachers and guidance counselors deal with girl politics all the time. Some of them are GREAT at handling it. Others, not so much. I've had both experiences. Either way, they are the ones that will see it in action and be able to nip it in the bud or steer the group in a different direction.

[Phoebe]

I'd stick with talking to the teacher or appropriate administrator. I'd only approach the parent if I knew them already and felt that might work. Even then, I'd word it differently - because, frankly, I've learned that my daughter's presentation of things isn't always totally accurate. I've been bitten in the ass before when I've gone to a parent on a less sticky issue and found some little embelishment in my daughter's tale that changes everything for me. (Such fun mid sticky conversation..... imagine the SNL "Never Mind" lady. )

Teachers and guidance counselors deal with girl politics all the time. Some of them are GREAT at handling it. Others, not so much. I've had both experiences. Either way, they are the ones that will see it in action and be able to nip it in the bud or steer the group in a different direction.

ITA. Try the guidance counselor. We've dealt with this crap. The teacher really didn't help at all. This is part of the guidance counselor a job.

[Thirteen]

Yes. Don't contact the mom. Teach your daughter how to defend herself and behave in those situations. This is pretty normal mean behavior. I had it for several years from approximately age 10 - 16. People and kids are mean assholes.

+1

If the kid is a jerk, take away her audience.
"I don't have to listen to this." Teach her that it's okay to walk away from people who do not respect her personhood.


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[diggitydot]

Relationship aggression and letting the parents know

If the kid is a jerk, take away her audience. "I don't have to listen to this." Teach her that it's okay to walk away from people who do not respect her personhood.

Yup, all sorts of this. There's something very liberating about telling an asshole that their opinion is irrelevant, particularly for young ladies.

My first parenting win was when DD1 told some dickbag who pulled the I-won't-be-your-friend threat on her, "Oh. That's too bad for you. I'm an amazing friend and you're missing out," and then turned around and walked away with her head held high.

Unfortunately, some vicious tween and teen girls who becomes asshole adults. The sooner she learns to deal with them appropriately, the easier her life will be in the future.

DO NOT CALL THE MOM. I wouldn't even bother with the school counselor. If it's disruptive to her learning, give the teacher a heads-up on what is going on in the social scene so he/she can keep that info in mind when shit happens there. Don't expect them to do a lot, though.

[Curegirl]

Agree with everyone-no calling the mom. Doing so means you'll open your daughter up for stealth mean girl behavior no matter how many counselors or teachers know about the situation. The mom will take it as criticism of her mothering skills and her child, which will bring up bitchiness that'll trickle down to her daughter and yours. As many of the others said, I think the best thing is teaching your daughter that there are plenty of assholes in the world but only she has the power to walk away or ignore them even if it stings at the time.

[houseelf]

Wow. I think we have almost unanimous agreement here in this thread. This is both shocking and incredibly persuasive.

I have to say that sometimes a wonderful mom can be absolutely oblivious of mean girl's behavior. On the other hand, my childhood friend was MORTIFIED by her mother's gossipy, manipulative behavior. For the most part, however, ITA with Ladybug that generally there is a high correlation between mean girl and mean mom. It isn't an exact science. I was hoping for the best I guess.

My daughter is a 9 year old fourth grader and she goes out of her way to play with the kid that is known to be poor and tutors the special needs kid. She plays with the "weirdos". She also tends to skew young. The perpetrator in this instance skews towards pushing the adolescent envelope.

I agree with whoever said that in their case it was a case that no good deed going unpunished. Doing the right thing has made her a nerd. Of course, this isn't my first rodeo and like Angie said, my initial response is to believe 75% of my kid's side of the story. Generally there is a whole other spin on things.

My running partner's take is that DD will have assholes and bullies in her life forever. Solving this for her doesn't help her learn to cope and can only hurt. I can only be there to listen and advise.

Kids only get harder as they age.