Lying

[peggyfromwastate]

We have a problem. Ds9 lies AllTheTime. He doesn't seem to show remorse or anything. He's been punished, lectured, and he just does not get it. He never admits his lie either which I find infuriating.

A google search shows lying is really common, and age appropriate. Some even call it a developmental milestone. I just can not stand it!!!

Any suggestions?

I can't really drop the hammer like my parents did. I won't do that. They overreacted to small lies and made me feel like the most worthless person. I ended up learning how to lie to not get caught--- I still felt guilt but my primary goal was to not get caught.

Ds has self esteem problems already, and I don't want to make him feel like a bad person for lying. Do not get me wrong--- he knows we don't approve of the lies and we do not accept that. I have explained the trust issue many times--- and how every time he lies I trust him less and less. But I don't want him to feel like he's evil incarnate either.

I guess I'm just wondering how any of you have dealt with this?

This is the last lie:: we have a fishbowl we fill with ping pong balls for good behavior. When it's filled we all go on an outing. It was almost filled--- and then ds added about 15 balls to it so that they are falling out. Subtle right? He blamed his sister who is 3'6" tall--- she can't reach up there where the ping pong balls are even standing on a chair like ds does. So... Suggestions? In his mind he's helping the family along by filling the bowl. In my mind he's breaking the "kids don't touch" rule. And the worst thing is the cover up lie. Any punishment with the Ping pong balls will punish all the kids...

This is just one lue. He lies about brushing teeth, reading, going on the computer, eating candy, eating cookies, washing his hands, hitting his sister, playing video games... You name it, he lies about it. I'll definitely have his counselor work with him on this later, but I need ideas about the damned ping pong thing. Ugh.

[Pollyanna]

I remember listening to Dr. Laura years ago and she had the same problem with her son. I tucked her solution away just in case I ever need it.
She told him they were going to do something special (I don't remember the specifics), and then continued to build it up, talk to him about it, etc. The day of the outing she picked him up in the car and when he asked about the outing she calmly repkied, "oh, I lied". He was very upset and she then explained to him that this is exactly how she feels all. The. Time. When he lies to her. She said it stopped the lying and was a last resort type thing because she was at her wits end. There was no yelling or punishment just a realization if what lying feels like to the person you are doing it to.
I'm not sure if you feel this would be too harsh but I think it has the potential to be very effective. I agree that it is normal at his age but also agree it's unacceptable.

ETA: You could also just not ask him questions. Instead of " did you wash your hands" you can say "I know you didn't wash your hands, or you did? Great wash again" . But this method has it's downfalls because trust becomes difficult for both parties.

[Michele]

I'm currently trying the "I know you lied, how are you going to fix this?" routine. I also try to punish the lying with a bigger consequence than the infraction. But when he lies about stupid stuff like teeth brushing, there isn't a guideline in place....which is why I'm trying the "fix it" approach.

[diggitydot]

"You wanna double check that before I look into it?" is how I deal with the leaping lying phase. Gives them the opportunity to rethink their answer or do what they were told to do in the first place.

Yes, it's age-appropriate, but it's infuriating, all the same.

[Phoebe]

DD10 is the same exact way. Hugs to you.

[peggyfromwastate]

Well I think he felt bad about the lie after a while---- when his siblings got mad at him for messing up the Ping pong game. At least he apologized about 50 times at dinner. Then he goes into the "I'm such a bad person" routine. I just want to bang my head on the wall. I'm regretting not buying the rum at Costco the other day when I thought about it... Sigh.

In general I don't see a lot of "feeling bad" for the morality of lying in and of itself. But maybe that's to be expected. Maybe it's all about self preservation right now, and expediency.

I expect the lies about brushing teeth and what not. That's just mostly bc he doesn't want to bother with it. We can manage it by telling him about the bacteria parties on his teeth and how if there is too much bacteria a dentist will have to drill a big hole to get rid of them... Usually a reminder of the bacteria is all it takes for him to "remember" he didn't brush.

I just am unsure how to deal with the "bigger" lies I guess.

Ugh.

[metroguy]

don't have an answer. personally, i thinking lying is not the issue--getting caught is... he should learn to lie better. and at least you only got a lying issue. my dd5 has been stealing from other people. i ask her why, she said--they have lots of (toys/$$) and wouldn't miss it. i try to say it's wrong but she change the subject... argghh.. manipulative kid.

[GrayMatterWife]

I remember listening to Dr. Laura years ago and she had the same problem with her son. I tucked her solution away just in case I ever need it.
She told him they were going to do something special (I don't remember the specifics), and then continued to build it up, talk to him about it, etc. The day of the outing she picked him up in the car and when he asked about the outing she calmly repkied, "oh, I lied". He was very upset and she then explained to him that this is exactly how she feels all. The. Time. When he lies to her. She said it stopped the lying and was a last resort type thing because she was at her wits end. There was no yelling or punishment just a realization if what lying feels like to the person you are doing it to.
I'm not sure if you feel this would be too harsh but I think it has the potential to be very effective. I agree that it is normal at his age but also agree it's unacceptable.

ETA: You could also just not ask him questions. Instead of " did you wash your hands" you can say "I know you didn't wash your hands, or you did? Great wash again" . But this method has it's downfalls because trust becomes difficult for both parties.

I've done something very similar. DS (9) lied to me about something--something TOTALLY stupid to lie about. RIGHT before we were supposed to go out to dinner as a family (we don't eat out much--it was a big deal/special occasion).

So, I didn't get mad. I just changed the subject, smiling sweetly, asking: "OK. Where would you like to go to dinner tonight. I'm out of ideas. Your call. Wherever your favorite place is, we'll go there."

DS: "CHEESECAKE FACTORY!!"

Me: "That sounds great. GIRLS! [calling to his sisters] It's time to go! We're going to the Cheesecake Factory and we'll even get DESSERT!"

[FREAK OUT OF HYSTERICAL EUPHORIA]

DS: "I'll go grab my shoes!!"

Me: "Oh, not you. I'm taking everyone but you."

DS: "But you said 'we'!"

Me: "I lied. …. Stinks, doesn't it?"

And we all went out to eat at Cheesecake Factory. Except DS. Who stayed home. With a PB&J, no TV, no computer and a LONG ASS writing assignment I gave him.

A couple of days ago, he thought about lying. You could tell by the expression on his face. He opened his mouth to answer my question, paused, then asked, "Wait. First…are we going out to dinner tonight?" hahaha! But he told the truth to the question, even though it meant bad news for him.

[diggitydot]

Our kids get into DEEP shit for lying. Far deeper than whatever punishment they were trying to avoid that would come along with the truth. Like a million times worse.

For instance, DD1 lied to us prolifically several years ago about her phone usage. She was easily caught and lost her cell phone privileges for 6 fucking months. After she earned her privileges back, she again screwed up (because she's a kid and kids screw up), but she was honest about it and only lost her phone privileges for a week. That huge difference was was a real eye-opener for her.

Lying is akin to disrespect in our house. Lying to me means you think I'm stupid and *that* is disrespectful.

[Ladybug]

"You wanna double check that before I look into it?" is how I deal with the leaping lying phase. Gives them the opportunity to rethink their answer or do what they were told to do in the first place.

Yes, it's age-appropriate, but it's infuriating, all the same.

I'm filing this one way. Thanks!