Gifted education

[spotty_dog]

I think some of you have been through this, with kids who seem to need something "more" than the standard school curriculum...

My DS is working well ahead of the other first graders in all areas. I have no idea if he is gifted, and honestly, IQ is much less important to me than grit, character, and other intangible traits. That said, I am beginning to wonder if getting him formally identified would help his teachers understand his different needs, and if it would help us also as parents. His sister is actually quicker than he is in many ways, so I am also looking ahead to her kindergarten year and beyond when I consider getting involved to press for differentiated instruction.

I never really considered this before, not only because DS didn't start exceeding academic expectations until this school year, but also because our school district is so small that they didn't have any resources for what our state deems "Highly Capable" students. However, as of last fall, new state legislation dictates that all districts have to offer highly capable services to students K-12 who qualify for them, and that they have to have a clear identification procedure in action by the beginning of the 2014-15 school year. Fortunately, new state funds are also being released to help support this legislation, so identifying kids should hopefully help the district over all.

So I guess what I am wondering is, how much have you had to advocate for your kids? How much have you had to do outside of school, like paying for outside testing? And how has identification helped your student to have a more successful school experience? I know a lot of you have chosen private school as the more flexible way to provide your student with challenging curriculum...I'd love to hear more about how that option came into play as well.

[Deebs]

As we've moved and I've looked into school after school, I've come to realize every state, city, district handles gifted students differently. Here, kids are grouped by ability to some extent, but there is no formal gifted testing until third grade. That said, my kindergartener gets pulled out of class twice a week for reading with a reading specialist, is piloting a math curriculum for high achieving students through a grant written specifically withDS in mind, and is challenged daily. I will be nominating his teacher for teacher of the year this year, as she clearly works her tail off to meet his needs. DD was not challenged at all last year. I had her tutored to keep her in touch with her K teacher, but also to keep her challenged and interested in academics. This year, she's back to having a teacher that gets her and her abilities. I guess I'd start with having a conference with the teacher to see what options are available in your area.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JaneDoe]

My kids' school seems to address kids who are academically beyond their peers by pulling them out of class and having them do projects with kids of similar academic level under the supervision of a teacher's aid. For instance, my DD is well-beyond her peers in reading. Last year, she was assigned to a school "book club". There were about four third graders in the group and they were assigned books to read and questions to answer. They would meet once a week to discuss the books and questions. This was in addition to her regular classroom reading work, which she would just blow through without any effort. This year, in fourth grade, they do more independent reading and book work. The teacher assigns her books of a much higher reading level.

We've considered having her tested for TAG, but so far I've been very happy with how the school is challenging her so I just haven't pursued it.

[Pollyanna]

Gifted education is so hard. Really it's a moving target from child to child. Is your child the average genius, or way beyond the teachers, or just advanced slightly beyond the peers, or only gifted in one topic, and on and on.

Our experience with gifted education was fine. Nothing to write home about and I'm not sure how enriching it was but it did help our kids that experienced it identify themselves as very capable academically. That belief of "I can do this" may be more valuable than the actual lessons that were taught. This was through a public school system that was very focused on the higher end learners. If you have a kid that really wants and needs to be pushed all the time or will get in trouble if they aren't pushed this system will not be enough for your child. Dd19 loved being pulled out because regular class was boring to her . DS17 did not like it because the group of kids he had to be with we're not kids he liked to be with. It wasn't worth it to him. There is a social dynamic you can't deny.

I don't know of many private schools geared toward gifted learners. Catholic schools are a big old "no" in that area (K-8). Folks needing gifted assistance should avoid your standard parochial school. Dd11 is planning on homeschooling 7-8 for this reason and because now she feels behind. AZ has an amazing charter school that is for gifted kids. Parents and kids alike love it. We have a private school here that creates an individual curriculum for each student. This is great for kids at all levels but you pay a premium to essentially be tutored by very highly qualified teachers. So some private schools may be a good option but most also are not equipped to handle the gifted child in a way you or he may need.

Adding enrichment at home is great, if you can manage it. For us there is simply no way. School plus extracurriculars fills the entire day and making them drop something they love to enrich their schooling would make them hate learning. But that is our family. Other folks may have more time.

My friends child is off the charts. So much so the school called her and said, "he is beyond us, call the University", this is at age 10. She was so upset because she wants "normal" for him. He is now bored on a full time gifted program because she doesn't want to have him start college and she feels unequipped to handle homeschooling. Our kiddos are bright but are not even close to that type of true giftedness. It makes it easier to create an experience that works for them. We never did private testing because the kids were tested in school. But you may want to test earlier and for that I think you need to go private. Take the results to the school and see what they can help you create for your kiddos.

To be honest (and this is none of my business), I could see you being an amazing homeschool mom. I really could. You yourself have a natural love and passion for learning. I'd want you to teach my kids!! Like I said, it's none of my business and you weren't asking about homeschooling but I would consider it if your children are already ahead of the pack.

[spotty_dog]

As we've moved and I've looked into school after school, I've come to realize every state, city, district handles gifted students differently. Here, kids are grouped by ability to some extent, but there is no formal gifted testing until third grade. That said, my kindergartener gets pulled out of class twice a week for reading with a reading specialist, is piloting a math curriculum for high achieving students through a grant written specifically withDS in mind, and is challenged daily. I will be nominating his teacher for teacher of the year this year, as she clearly works her tail off to meet his needs. DD was not challenged at all last year. I had her tutored to keep her in touch with her K teacher, but also to keep her challenged and interested in academics. This year, she's back to having a teacher that gets her and her abilities. I guess I'd start with having a conference with the teacher to see what options are available in your area.

The teacher is already going above and beyond, and I'm really grateful for her. I don't really care much that he's not advancing academically or being challenged at this point. It's only first grade and we do a lot at home. But I do care that he is getting bored and frustrated. His teacher was instrumental in forming a new first grade reading enrichment, offered to about 10 kids across the four classrooms and supported with Title I funds; she arranged her classroom volunteers so that the highest reading group can get the most small-group attention daily (always being assigned to work with a volunteer while the teacher handles the other 18 kids); and she's gone to extraordinary lengths to keep DS from completely stagnating in math by pulling in all kinds of resources that he can work on independently. But with 20 other kids in the class to worry about and with him the only one working at his level, there's just not time in the day for him to get any kind of direct instruction from her. That's why I'm thinking that, with the new directive to provide opportunities to all kids, the school might be able to scrape up funds to get a similar enrichment opportunity for math. I just don't know where to start, whom to contact, or whether rocking the boat will even pay off.

[spotty_dog]

Gifted education is so hard. Really it's a moving target from child to child. Is your child the average genius, or way beyond the teachers, or just advanced slightly beyond the peers, or only gifted in one topic, and on and on.

Yes, exactly! There is such a range of needs, and such a range of classroom expectations, that the same student could end up being pigeonholed in so many ways across different educational experiences.

Adding enrichment at home is great, if you can manage it. For us there is simply no way. School plus extracurriculars fills the entire day and making them drop something they love to enrich their schooling would make them hate learning. But that is our family. Other folks may have more time.

This is my issue as well. This year it is working because we have limited extracurriculars and maximized time away from school. We can take a week or a long weekend to "homeschool" and my kids love it. Afterschool time is increasingly cramped though and I know this is only going to get worse, so the need for "school time" to count is growing.

My friends child is off the charts. So much so the school called her and said, "he is beyond us, call the University", this is at age 10. She was so upset because she wants "normal" for him. He is now bored on a full time gifted program because she doesn't want to have him start college and she feels unequipped to handle homeschooling. Our kiddos are bright but are not even close to that type of true giftedness. It makes it easier to create an experience that works for them. We never did private testing because the kids were tested in school. But you may want to test earlier and for that I think you need to go private. Take the results to the school and see what they can help you create for your kiddos.

This is part of my dilemma. My kids are not profoundly gifted, this I'm pretty confident about. On the Ruf scale, DS is starting to look like a 2 to 3, DD a 3 to 4. And they're easygoing kids, no serious acting out or making demands or anything. Poor DS just comes home and shrugs and says, "We just did review again today," and goes about his business. But if he's engaged, he lights up, and he deserves more of that.

To be honest (and this is none of my business), I could see you being an amazing homeschool mom. I really could. You yourself have a natural love and passion for learning. I'd want you to teach my kids!! Like I said, it's none of my business and you weren't asking about homeschooling but I would consider it if your children are already ahead of the pack.

Well, shucks. I know I've mentioned this is something I'd really like to do. In fact, my bias is to say "nobody can teach these kids as individually as I can." I'm trying to quell that bias and look on the bright side of the public school opportunities instead. It's definitely among the options I'm exploring though.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with your kids!

[diggitydot]

Even within the same state, each district treats gifted/talented differently than another. It's really weird.

We have three kids in different parts of the gifted-to-special-needs spectrum. Our last district was extremely proactive in accommodating advanced kids and were decent with special needs kiddos. Our district in AZ? Not so much. They also sucked at working with special needs kids. Our current district offers AP classes in the HS, nothing in the lower grades, but is ah-mazing for special needs.

It's so weird how different each district is from one place to another.

[Sheherezade]

At least here, there is a move to try to do more for the high end of normal kids because of "value added" assessments. The usual form seems to be advancing the curriculum and selecting out the kids that need more in order to actually add a full year of learning to whatever their existing base is at the start of the year. Of course, this is coming at the same time as common core and that is making the curriculum a muddle. It is frustrating.

FWIW, I think the worst years for kids that are gifted but not Gifted are from 4-8. They will get bored if the school doesn't do more that normal to challenge them. Once they hit high school, there are usually options like AP, college programs, etc. Before fourth grade, usually teachers can provide a little individualization and do because kids that are younger all tend to be more far apart within the classroom.

Have you considered something like Montessori? If we had stayed in Philly, I would have had my kids in the elementary Montessori system. I didn't like the preschool and K program (go figure, most people LOVE it) but I did like the single classroom groupings of kid 1-3 grade, 4-6 grade and that idea that the kids within the classroom advanced within that tier of learning at their own pace. It seems like it would allow a more advanced kid to dive in quickly and deeply to some things and keep the boredom at bay. All that said, I'm guessing you don't have that option in your area since you live in a tiny place. At least, it wouldn't be easy.

For kids that are Gifted with a capital G, I don't know what I'd do. That's an entirely different ballgame. It's funny because there is only one in the senior class that my son and all his friends readily identify with "he's a genius". He clearly blows his peers away intellectually now -- and he wasn't in our gifted pull out as a little kid. You just never know....

If you can do the enrichment, that's probably the easiest way to make sure his needs are getting met. Again, it won't conquer any boredom in the classroom though, so I'd keep a watch out for that. I think kids that have the joy of learning beaten out of them by boredom are such a tragedy.

[Pollyanna]

Angie couldn't be more right about the grade levels. 4th - 8th can be really rough if you're bored. Middle school can be a down right waste of time. Our oldest kids found middle school to be a joke even though they were in a blue ribbon school that tried to challenge the students. DS17 however loved the social aspect so was fine coasting, dd19 in retrospect wishes she had homeschooled middle school because it did a huge number on her self image that she still struggles with and the academics were mostly average except for a very good literature teacher.

Angie is also correct about high school. Kids really have a chance to take as challenging a schedule as they'd like. If they plan it right it's a good prep for college (especially junior year).

[spotty_dog]

At least here, there is a move to try to do more for the high end of normal kids because of "value added" assessments. The usual form seems to be advancing the curriculum and selecting out the kids that need more in order to actually add a full year of learning to whatever their existing base is at the start of the year. Of course, this is coming at the same time as common core and that is making the curriculum a muddle. It is frustrating.

See, with ours being a Title I school, the emphasis is more on helping the disadvantaged kids not be so behind. I feel like, at least through the elementary level, that's where all the resources and attention go.

FWIW, I think the worst years for kids that are gifted but not Gifted are from 4-8. They will get bored if the school doesn't do more that normal to challenge them. Once they hit high school, there are usually options like AP, college programs, etc. Before fourth grade, usually teachers can provide a little individualization and do because kids that are younger all tend to be more far apart within the classroom.

Interestingly, I feel like we'll have more options as early as middle school because it's on the same campus with the high school, and there is precedent for students to be able to cross over to the other building to take upper level classes as needed.

Have you considered something like Montessori? If we had stayed in Philly, I would have had my kids in the elementary Montessori system. I didn't like the preschool and K program (go figure, most people LOVE it) but I did like the single classroom groupings of kid 1-3 grade, 4-6 grade and that idea that the kids within the classroom advanced within that tier of learning at their own pace. It seems like it would allow a more advanced kid to dive in quickly and deeply to some things and keep the boredom at bay. All that said, I'm guessing you don't have that option in your area since you live in a tiny place. At least, it wouldn't be easy.

There actually is a Montessori-inspired private school here that goes up to 8th! Unfortunately it's a 30+ minute drive...$6k/kid/year tuition...yadda yadda. Not a first-string choice, unfortunately -- the level of desperation that would drive us to consider it would probably drive us to homeschool first.

For kids that are Gifted with a capital G, I don't know what I'd do. That's an entirely different ballgame. It's funny because there is only one in the senior class that my son and all his friends readily identify with "he's a genius". He clearly blows his peers away intellectually now -- and he wasn't in our gifted pull out as a little kid. You just never know....

Yes! The qualifications that lead a kiddo to be placed in a special program in elementary don't necessarily apply to the same kids who have a fundamental need for a different kind of enriched instruction, and neither group are necessarily the same kids who will be successful in academics and in life for the long run. And yet none of these is the norm...I don't think there even is a norm.

If you can do the enrichment, that's probably the easiest way to make sure his needs are getting met. Again, it won't conquer any boredom in the classroom though, so I'd keep a watch out for that. I think kids that have the joy of learning beaten out of them by boredom are such a tragedy.

On Friday there was a substitute that didn't understand some of the extra procedures in place for him. He was made to do the regular math and not permitted to do his extra online reading practice when he had zipped through his reader. It was SO frustrating for him, he was just down in the dumps saying that PE is the only interesting thing left to him, and it made me feel a little more the knife-edge we're walking just to keep him from shutting down, and how lucky we are that the teacher is working so hard for him. :\ I think that's why this is on my mind this weekend.

[Ladybug]

Have you looked into the john Hopkins CTY program? Our school has accepted credits (math, science, etc) from JH CTY so the students would skip regular science and work online with john Hopkins. You have to test to qualify for the program. It would give you a structured program with transferable credits at home.

[Vanquisher]

Alexia is gifted with a capital G. Her measured IQ when tested was 153. Ryan is also gifted, but not as profoundly so.

I have found that there is some benefit to their being labeled as gifted, being in the gifted classes, and their teachers being aware of their giftedness, but not much.

I do think it is worth the testing. They do it for free here. Lexi was the earliest they'd ever tested in her district at the time. She was two weeks into Kindergarten, and knew right away she should be tested.

They have handled it differently everywhere we've lived.

This is from her test. She was 5.

Anyway, mostly I think it's been a god thing. We do have to supplement at home.

[spotty_dog]

Thanks Heidi, I actually had you and Ryan at least partly in mind posting this, I seemed to remember some hiccups with him getting coursework to meet his needs around elementary school, but I didn't know that Alexia was in a similar situation. Thank you for sharing! That description is hilarious! I appreciate your honesty.

Ladybug, I've heard of CTY. It's not cheap though. Nor is Stanford's EPGY. But it's nice to know they're out there, and recognized, especially at the upper levels when our sleepy town might top out for course options.

[Pollyanna]

Duke also has a program. Vanderbilt has a weekend option for gifted students but I think it's only for local folks.

[HouseofWool]

"Her apparent confusion about the testers lack of knowledge..." That is so spot on for her. I snorted I was laughing so hard!