Dream school or no debt

[scarlett09]

I say apply broadly. Private colleges may have large enough endowments that they can give applicants sizeable financial aid packages.

I would check out your state's department of education website. Take a look at their higher education section. Some states offer grants and scholarships to those students who stay in state to attend a public university or college. I was the recipient of state grants all four years of undergrad. Although they were about $3K per academic year, they helped to reduce my undergrad debt and my parents' out-of-pocket expenses. ITA with NYCHoosier about FastWeb http://www.fastweb.com - you can set it up to e-mail you when scholarships meet your DD's personal stats become available.

I'm by no means a financial aid expert, but had to learn a bit while working in college recruitment. You will need to become one with FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) http://www.fafsa.ed.gov. You said that your DD is 2.5 years away, right? Well, you will be using your 2011 tax information to file her FAFSA in early 2012 for the 2012-2013 academic year. And you will need to file early each year with the previous year's tax information every year that your DD is in undergrad. She should be filing the FAFSA herself once she is considered independent (which is based upon their definition of independent). My advice is to fill out the FAFSA as soon as your get your taxes done. The sooner the school gets your application, the better. And the higher the chance of receiving a financial aid package before the school's enrollment deadline. During this period of financial downturn, financial aid offices have been slammed with tons of financial aid applications. And, sadly, requests to take a second look at a student's financial aid package because a parent(s) financial status has changed since the FAFSA was submitted.

I would also try to apply to schools that have a variety of subjects to major in. Something like 70% of college students change their majors at LEAST once. If you know she is really set on marine biology, etc., then great! I would also try to make sure that the other programs at the school are well-rounded, just in case she changes her mind.

Ditto to what SoonerTexan said re: grad school. I believe that most grad schools take applicants based upon scores, grades, etc. and not where they went to undergrad. Now I know that there are some exceptions to the rule, but really, its about the applicant's strengths and not what exclusive private school they went to. My cousin went to Bucknell and is not getting into any PsyD programs. Obviously, the +$40K/year tuition to get the "name" on the diploma is not helping her get into any programs. It's her GRE scores that are the problem.

And I would take collegeconfidential.com with a grain of salt. Yes, you are probably getting a lot of "real" information on particular schools. But there are the crazy/bitter parents out there who spend all of their time bad-mouthing a school. We had one such parent doing that about our unit on that website. Her daughter had applied and visited campus once, but wound up going some place else. The mother was a crazy person who was anti-women's rights, as a woman. She kept saying that all of our students were brainwashed feminists, etc, etc. A call from our dean and lot of people on the website put her in her place. There are also helicopter parents out there who will rail against a particular department at the school (residence life, academic services, etc.) that didn't do enough for their precious child, when really it was the child's responsibility to take care of the issue in the first place. Like "I can't believe my baby isn't going to graduate. How could they hold him back? What horrible people, they don't know what they are doing. I'm going to speak to my lawyer." Seriously, if your kid filed the graduation application when he was supposed to, maybe you would have gotten to see him in his cap & gown at commencement.

Oh and the same applies for US News & World Report rankings. They look great, colleges love to put them on their home pages, and applicant numbers increase. But they are not unbiased. Not in the least bit. And a school shouldn't be overlooked simply because it's not in the top 25 in whatever. Because who knows, a school that you are overlooking, might just be the right fit for her.

Take a look at their websites, set foot on the campus (if at all possible), talk to the tour guide after the tour. And some schools also have options that allow applicants to experience a "day in the life" of a college student, where they can go to classes, eat in the dining hall, stay in the residence hall, etc. In the end, it will come down to $$ and where your DD feels the most comfortable, where she can see herself. Because if she doesn't feel comfortable, it doesn't matter how inexpensive the school is, she will be looking to transfer.

Good luck! This thread is making me miss my job and my students. Stupid grad school.

Our plan was to let her apply everywhere, look at the acceptances and financial offerings and let her make the decision from there. The hesitation is that an 18 year old really does not have the foresight to see how a pile of debt will affect their future. Dh and I just go back and forth on how to proceed and cannot even believe we have a child so close to college.

I like this plan to see what her financial aid options look like. One of the dream schools might end up being a reasonable option. I agree too that it is hard for an 18 year old to really grasp how the debt plays out in the future and the "what if" of the dream school but hopefully she will heed your advice as you weigh the options.

[Pollyanna]

DH and I are not completely on the same page about this issue at all. I'm all for minimizing future debt. I can't imagine having six figure debt for too many majors. Also, does your DD want to go to grad school too? This certainly ups the ante.

Dh and I are in similar positions, he really wants them to be able to go anywhere but understands the reality of debt. The practical side of me wants to say that you have to stay in town for undergrad and go elsewhere for grad school (she currently switches between PhD in physiology and med school or both but we all know this can change). Likely dh will stay at his current institution which has a great tuition reimbursement system for all the state universities. Really it seems like a no brainer but when you are in the midst of the decisions there seems to be a lot more gray area

[SuzySunshine]

I voted for #2 but I would let her apply and then see what the packages look like. Some of those "dream schools" have blind financial aid meaning they look at how much the parents can contribute and they subsidize the rest. I had a high school friend that went to Cornell for next to nothing and then came back to a state school for law school.

There are also schools that cap your debt, DH couldn't come out of med school at Stanford with more then 80K debt.

ETA: After seeing what it took for DH to get into a choice med school from a state school and what a hard time I had getting into MBA programs from a state school I wouldn't automatically rule out "dream" schools.

[SoonerTexan]

I would also try to apply to schools that have a variety of subjects to major in. Something like 70% of college students change their majors at LEAST once. If you know she is really set on marine biology, etc., then great! I would also try to make sure that the other programs at the school are well-rounded, just in case she changes her mind.

That's something else--make sure she can actually get into another school within the University if she decides to change her major. OU is different than most colleges--everyone applies to the "University College" and then applies to the Business School, Journalism School, etc. from there.

Some of my friends at other universities have had a hard time getting into the school they want to begin with (for example, engineering or business at UT) or they get two Bs their first semester, end up with a 3.6 GPA and are virtually stuck where they are.

Heck, my National Merit, top 10% roommate couldn't even get into the Journalism school at UT--they told her they only took the top 2.5%

Granted, it's probably only a huge issue at really competitive universities, but it is something to think about

I was just reading an article about private schools offering fabulous financial aid packages. Something I wouldn't have ever known, having gone to a state school and not weighing any other options.

[ladymoreta]

I also voted for the stay in-state and graduate debt-free option. DH and I were in a very similar situation when we graduated from high school. Neither of our parents had any money saved for us for college, so it was completely our decision. We had the scores to get us great in-state scholarship (basically getting paid to go to school here), or we could have gone to our dream schools.

While we still think it would have been nice to go to an ivy league school, we are a lot more financially secure because of staying debt-free in undergrad, and we have a lot more options available to us now (like me staying at home when Baby is born, and hopefully being able to pay off all his medical school debt within a year of him completing residency).

I think that attending a state school in the region you plan to build your career is sometimes more beneficial than attending a higher ranked school in a different region. My professors had a lot of contacts with businesses in Oklahoma and bordering states, and they were able to personally recommend me to hiring managers that they'd worked with for years. A college's name on a resume doesn't always bring that much influence when it comes to the decision of whether or not to hire a student.

BTW - not exactly on-topic and just my opinion, but I highly recommend that if she does choose to go to a school that requires her to take on debt, the loans should be only in her name. In the long run, it is better for her if you and your husband fully fund your retirement before contributing to her college education. (Unfortunately for us, I don't know that our parents will be able to support themselves in retirement anyway, so this is a going concern for DH and me.)

[scrub-jay]

I'd also like to add - it also really depends on the student and how she learns. For me, I really thrived in a small private school where my biochem class had 6 (yes, 6) people. Because it was smaller, I established much closer relationships with my professors. There is one that I keep in touch with - and we literally talked on the phone for 3+ hours last time we talked. I would have done fine at a larger school, but I am extremely grateful for my experience because I think I really thrived.

As a science major, the small campus paid me a stipend to do a research project as an undergrad - my very own (just me and the PI) DNA research project. I was basically published as an undergrad! That was an opportunity I could have never found at a large institution.

Just mentioning this because these were things that came up when my parents and I discussed feasibility. Luckily, the private school offered enough financial aid to even the playing field. Not that I am saying private school is better than public, just different. It is important to consider the student and her learning style in the equation. Looking back, I do not regret my decision at all, I know it was the best one for me. But DH who went to a large, big name university, thrived because it was so different than his high school, where he graduated with 8 other people!

[peggyfromwastate]

I voted the debt free route.

We have 5 kids too, and DH will be finishing his residency when our oldest enters Junior year. Plus, we're in the military system so no huge salary on the horizon, but big enough that we won't qualify for FAFSA.

What DH and I are thinking of doing is offering the kids around 20K a year for 4 years only (none of this 6 yrs for a BS stuff). If they go to a state school and save money, they can come out ahead. If they go to a military school (HooAh) they can come out way ahead. If they want Haaaavaaard, they can accumulate lots of debt.

Mostly I just think it's safer for sibling harmony to keep it to one dollar amount for all kids... But they won't get 20K for NOT going to college and if we see they aren't achieving or aren't going to pass, they'll get cut off from the "daddy financial aid" package...

We've talked about it some, but mostly I'm just going to learn by whatever you do and copy your plan!!!

[ladymoreta]

As a science major, the small campus paid me a stipend to do a research project as an undergrad - my very own (just me and the PI) DNA research project. I was basically published as an undergrad! That was an opportunity I could have never found at a large institution.

I do agree with you about how well you do depending on your learning style, but larger institutions have publishing options as well. At my undergrad, every student who completed the honors program did something very similar to what you described with a professor within their major. (For example, DH did a microbiology research project, and I did an MIS research project on simulation modeling.) The stipend wasn't guaranteed, but all the professors had the option to file for funding. We also got credit hours for the projects. At the end of the project, every student wrote a paper that they could submit for publishing. (I didn't, but it was an option.)

Just defending the larger schools!

My parents gave me the amount they were willing to contribute - $x per year. My first choice was about $15k more than that per year so I went somewhere that fit into the budget they set. They also did not pay for any summer or winter sessions and did not pay beyond 4 years. Since I went 4.5 after changing majors I paid for the last semester myself and one summer and two winter sessions. I have less than 1% of our total school loan debt between DH and myself.

[scrub-jay]

Just defending the larger schools!

Don't worry - also in defense of the larger schools: DH was able to be involved in a research project involving operation of a brand-spanking new FMRI machine, although much stipend-talk happened, he never received any (but also didn't care). At a small school - playing with those kind of toys would NEVER be possible.

[Flynn]

I think it depends on the student.

I NEEDED a smaller school (that cost more) to excel. I NEEDED it. Put me in a few classes wtih more than a hundred people with ONLY multiple choice tests and I don't care how much money you are saving, I didn't retain anything. NADA. It was painful. I did a state school for Freshman year, private school for year 2-4. I learned more in the first month in the smaller school than the whole first year in a state school.

...but that was me.


Another reason why I think it depends on the student is how they are wired. Will they regret getting into "dream school" and NOT taking that road or will they be fine with the "the prudent choice is X?"

My sister had her choice of schools. My parents explained she would have some debt with X or Y choice but none with many others. I don't remember WHY she exactly chose what she chose but I do know it's one of her biggest regrets. If she could do one thing differently in her life she would have gone for the "dream school." She feels (to a certain extent) like she took the easy road. I will go so far as to say she's ashamed of her choice. She's now 33 and she's put this issue to rest but I bet if she could go back, she would change her choice in a minute.


Finally, my DH did his undergrad at Hopkins and he did well. That alone opened quite a few doors that were closed to his state school friends who had test scores and grades above his. I realize he was going into medicine -- but still. He's embarassed how many doors his undergrad choice opened for him.

Just my two cents.

[DCJenn]

I say throw open the net and look at what it brings in. Private colleges can offer amazing financial aid packages.

I went to a tiny college (1200 people) and thrived. My brother went to Maryland and thrived. I went on a tour of Maryland and looked at my mom and we both knew it was a terrible fit.

I just heard a blub on colleges and something like 85% of private college students are receiving some sort of financial aid package.

and I have plenty of friends from undergrad who went to medical school, law school and other graduate programs and it didn't seem to matter that they went to a tiny college. In fact, one of my friends from undergrad is the Chief of Radiology at the hospital affiliated with WVU.

Jenn

ps- I didn't qualify for financial aid until my brother left for college.

[Sheherezade]

Just wanted to clarify my earlier comment that big name schools can open doors (since Flynn brought that up again!)...

I think that grad programs may realize that a degree from Harvard isn't necessarily made of gold - hence state school vs. private elite may not make a difference on grad admissions. BUT.....in the employment world -and the "patient" world, it is embarrassing how much those names mean. You may get a job interview because Mr. Smith read the name "Harvard" instead of "U of X". A patient may prefer to see you because in your online resume they say "Johns Hopkins" and not "Omaha State". That is still an unfortunate reality that we've encountered OUT of the academic world. What the dollar value is on that type of stereotype, I don't know. :huh:

Obviously, there are state schools that have the same name cache. I'm thinking we should move to one of those SOON!