Announcement

Collapse

Facebook Forum Migration

Our forums have migrated to Facebook. If you are already an iMSN forum member you will be grandfathered in.

To access the Call Room and Marriage Matters, head to: https://m.facebook.com/groups/400932...eferrer=search

You can find the health and fitness forums here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/133538...eferrer=search

Private parenting discussions are here: https://m.facebook.com/groups/382903...eferrer=search

We look forward to seeing you on Facebook!
See more
See less

Curious about a Muslim perspective on dating???

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Curious about a Muslim perspective on dating???

    All of this this talk about boyfriend/girlfriend relationships and dating, reminded me of an editorial piece, written for Muslims (living in the west), that feel the pressure to allow such things for their kids. I share it so you can get an idea of the way I feel about this topic, although I do not judge ANYONE for their choices...to each their own. I just thought I'd provide a window into how a lot of Muslims view the subject... again I only provide this for the sake of Islamic cultural enlightenment ( if you are even curious).


    An Anti-Teen-Dating Diatribe
    Mohja Kahf

    Teen dating: What demented dunce invented it? Aunty Mohja wants to know. What possesses U.S. consumerist culture to promote it as the norm? Let’s send a boy and a girl, their horniness joyfully newfound but woefully untamed, into the dark of a theater or the back of a car, unsupervised. Let’s urge them to contort their emerging personalities around what makes them pleasing to the other they wish to attract. Let’s expect them to go through relationship after relationship in their teens, getting jaded before they’re out of high school. What species of parent permits such perversion? A dayyuth, in Arabic, is a person who gives someone sexual access to a member of the family: a variety of pimp. Aunty Mohja is just innocently pointing out this word.

    Teen dating supplanted family-based courtship in the U.S. fifties. Sure there was dating before, but only for adults. Whole industries spawned to support teen dating, and now the entire culture seems to assume it is a universal human right.

    Cotillion pressure begins early in Aunty Mohja’s Southern hometown. Mothers gussy up eleven-year-old daughters in strapless gowns to be pawed awkwardly by boys at a school dance where lights are low and paper decorations evoke adult notions of “romance.” Fathers grin and push seventeen-year-old sons out the door with car keys and hotel reservations for this bizarre ritual called “prom.” Oho, Aunty Mohja went to American high school and knows all about prom night.

    This, but delicate sensibilities are shocked, shocked, at traditions of teen marriage among some sectors of Muslims. Aunty Mohja is not saying early marriage is best. But compare the two customs, both acknowledging teen sexuality. For Muslim parents to provide a nubile woman with a reliable life partner, with whom she can build a home as well as satisfy her sexual desires—someone who bears witnessed responsibility if she conceives a child, in a union nurtured by surrounding family—this is oppressive, while parents providing ill-prepared teens with the means for furtive groping amid all sorts of conflicting messages about what they are to do in this badly set-up ritual, that’s benign?

    Some folks uphold the implications of teen dating brazenly, like Aunty Mohja’s neighbor: “Sure, we knew exactly when our son lost his virginity. On our sofa. At sixteen. We didn’t mind.” At this cavalier depravity, Aunty Mohja shudders.

    Yet there is an undercurrent of discontent even among reg’lar Americans, not just nutjob inassimilables like Aunty Mohja. Aunty Mohja detects it when her co-worker sighs, “It’s hard on a mom to watch her fifteen-year-old boy behave like a cad when girls fawn over him.” She hears it when a friend notes that his fourteen-year-old doesn’t pursue extracurricular activities because most of her after-school time revolves around her boyfriend. Many Americans documented in books by Wendy Shalit and others, do not agree with the mainstream culture’s celebration of casual teen sex. Some Americans whisper to Aunty Mohja that they were traumatized by teen dating, and don’t even like the practice but acquiesce because it is the dominant mode. Muslims can liberate Americans from this entrapment by modeling healthy lives free of teen dating.

    “How will boys and girls ever find life partners?” Bogus! A) Life partnering is not what teen dating is about. B) Teens don’t need to be put in contrived romantic rendezvous to develop relationship competence. C) The teen dating scene cultivates the shallow opposite of life-partnering skills, privileging pretty girls (fat girls, back of the bus) and swaggering boys (shy boys need not apply).

    Family-based or community-based courtship, on the other hand, excludes no one automatically because of looks, valuing character instead, and screening candidates not for kissing talent but for shared values. Graduates of the Western teen scene, having failed to find lasting relationships despite diligent dating, pay impersonal internet match services to do the kind of screening Muslim families and communities lovingly provide to their youth for free.

    “Arranged marriage!” someone will scream. Everything that isn’t untrammeled teen dating is not therefore arranged marriage. Also: What’s wrong with arranged marriage?

    “No individual choice! Arranged marriage is basically arranged rape! Another part of Muslim women’s oppression!” Please. Every social practice has its fraction of cases that abuse its intent and need reform. Masses of marriages are arranged every day having nothing to do with this caricature. Does it occur to fanatic foes of arranged marriage that most arranging parents actually care about their children’s happiness and therefore strive for matches that suit them, seeking their daughter’s and son’s input and choice?

    “It’s only natural for adolescents to be interested in sex.” Some teens may be naturally curious about death, but that doesn’t mean they should be given the key to the gun cabinet and a fresh box of shells each weekend and sent out to practice.

    Don’t go thinking Aunty Mohja is a Puritan or a Victorian, those bogeys dogging U.S. sex culture. Aunty Mohja is a product of Islamic tradition, in which sex is a must for everyone, to be had early and often, but with proper care. Aunty Mohja says sex education should give boys and girls, at appropriate ages, full disclosure: facts and science at school and, at home, knowledge of the morals and emotions that go with sex. Give them diagrams, books, handheld mirrors for private bodily self-exams, says your Auny Mohja.

    She ventures that wisdom traditions the world ‘round do not advise treating the body and its orifices casually. Orifices, which the Quran calls furuj, naming even male organs after the form of the vagina, are worth tender respect. The beginning of their sexual use requires gatekeeping and ceremony in nearly every wisdom tradition. Aunty Mohja urges that youngsters postpone partaking in the feast of the body with another person until such sharing can be entered in good faith. Those who cannot contain themselves have recourse to masturbation, a choice totally within fiqhi approaches to horniness, although the favored Muslim prescription for aiding abstainers is frequent fasting.

    Aunty Mohja hears her liberal friends guffaw. Absolutely, abstinence. Youth who fail the challenge of chastity must be offered not punishment but compassion, complete restraint from gossip, and bracing encouragement to get back on the wagon—and their respect for limits must be restored. Fear of early fatherhood and motherhood, STDs, and infection by HIV/AIDS are great—and realistic—tools for encouraging abstinence. Until the foolish become wise, and gain developmental maturity, or at least an honorable sexual outlet, they should be urged to abstain. Urged by every ethically sound ounce of parental authority and community pressure available. “Ethically sound” does not include honor killing! which is not shariah-based, nor is it exclusive to Muslims. Honor killing violates Islamic values of individual responsibility to God, not tribe, and must be uprooted.

    Sharing your orifices is an act worthy of awe and glory, not like swiveling a cotton swab in your ear. Aunty Mohja wants everyone to have good sex. And she refuses to recognize as good sex the cotton-swab casual kind that is only good physically, scratching an itch. Good means good, on every level, orgasmic to cosmic, flesh coming together with spirit, all are one one one, and there’s a reason why you’re screaming “Oh God oh God.” Good sex, God blesses. Good sex partakes in all that is La ilaha illa allah. It arrives at the climax of the Oneness of What Is Real.

    That is what is worth striving for, not contemporary Western casualness about sex. Not this gullible groping, snotty one-upping business of teen dating. Maybe Muslim traditions and cultures don’t have all the answers in our changing world—that doesn’t make teen dating the answer. Aunty Mohja hopes her tetchy tirade will fortify spineless Muslims who think they have to high-five teen dating to be the nice liberal sort of Muslim.





    Mohja Kahf is a celebrated poet, novelist and a faculty member in the University of Arkansas’s The King Fahd Center for Middle East &
    Islamic Studies.

  • #2
    Suz: LOVE this. On so many levels. You should read the book "Prude." Thanks for sharing!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Deleted
      Last edited by PrincessFiona; 05-05-2011, 08:06 PM.
      ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
      ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

      Comment


      • #4
        Fantastic article Suz! Thank you so much for sharing!!
        Wife to PGY4 & Mother of 3.

        Comment


        • #5
          One of our big sticking points about having kids is this subject. He is and I'm not. He wants them raised in Egypt when they get to this age because of this issue. At the local Islamic Center they've been speaking about this subject of raising the second generation kids in the USA and how to approach it. It's hard enough with an international and bi-cultural relationship. I'm thinking we'll see what happens because he hasn't been here enough years to know where we may end up or even if we can have kids.
          PGY4 Nephrology Fellow

          Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there.

          ~ Rumi

          Comment


          • #6
            Kris: I love that you talk frankly with her. I'm glad to hear she is cut from the same cloth as her mama & can continue to resists the urges or pressure to succumb to experimenting.

            I too was a late bloomer. I didn't even have a boyfriend until I was 16& was of legal age (18)when I lost my virginity. It was rough as a young adult woman, I am so glad I didn't enter those waters any sooner. Once I converted to Islam(age 21), things just became so much clearer for me. I truly hope & pray, that because I have been on both sides of the fence, that I will be able to guide my children wisely. You all give me a window into the life my kid's friends grow up in, which is very valuable in helping me to be sensitive to the atmosphere they will inevitably share w/their non Muslim peers.
            Last edited by Momo; 05-06-2011, 09:18 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Cinderella

              feel free to utilize the article for your husband's Islamic center...after all it was written for Muslims by a Muslim.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Shazam View Post
                Cinderella

                feel free to utilize the article for your husband's Islamic center...after all it was written for Muslims by a Muslim.
                Thanks Shazam. I'll give it to him to look at and pass on. I'm kind of shy about passing it on myself to others there as I wouldn't know what their reaction would be. The majority are refugees from all over the world so it's quite a mix.
                PGY4 Nephrology Fellow

                Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there.

                ~ Rumi

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think it's a great article. I don't agree with everything 100%, but I dig the vibe. I'm cool with simply letting kids be kids for a while, which includes their teen years.

                  Our oldest is almost 16 and has had a couple "boyfriends". Which mainly consists of them hanging out at our house with her younger siblings, myself, and a less-than-friendly DH who begrudgingly endures their temporary presence if only so as to impress upon them at any given time that he knows several ways to hurt people without leaving visible marks.

                  We too have exceptionally frank talks. I think you kind of have to with teens. Hry're not stupid, just kinda clueless.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    BTW - this is kind of a tangent, but I'm curious what our Muslim peeps think about Irshad Manji.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I must be very naieve because I think that dating at 16 or sex at 18 would hardly be considered late blooming.
                      Wife and #1 Fan of Attending Adult & Geriatric Psychiatrist.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Deleted
                        ~Mom of 5, married to an ID doc
                        ~A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He was my boyfriend @ 16 but I didn't date. My first date,alone w/boy, as when I was a senior in HS; he was a freshman @ Butler (a university guy)! We actually had a platonic "relationship" on & off for a couple of years in HS.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I had my only serious boyfriend at age 15, and we had sex and I had lots and lots of sex w/ lots and lots of boys after that. I never 'dated' any of them and I never wanted to. I kind of viewed them as toys. Fun to play with but when I was done, I was DONE. I didn't go to prom except for w/ the First boyfriend (he was a senior and captain of the football team, after all) (and gay as it turns out) I hated every single second of high school except for a few rare moments and none of those people really meant anything to me. The boys were so stupid and boring. Truly, why anyone would want to have spent any actual time with them (like as people) was beyond me. I knew my ticket out was to get to college and all would be well. and as it turned out- it pretty much was. and those few girls that have 'friended' me Facebook? One of them told my friend that they were so happy that I finally had my 'own little family- you know, with a husband..." to which my friend replied, "are you SERIOUS?" Because yes, as it turned out, they all thought I was a lesbian, while I was sleeping with half the football team and most of the wrestling team.

                            I have no regrets BUT...it's not exactly what I'd like for my kid to do. There were girls who did a lot less than I did and had the whole 'reputation' thing. I don't know why I didn't. Maybe because the girls thought I was a lesbian and the boys knew I honestly didn't give a shit about them. They knew I wasn't going to call, come over, ask to wear their football jersey, etc. I wore the football jersey every weekend of my buddy who had the same last name I did and was a fellow redhead. and who was gay. He had a girl wear his jersey, and I had a big burly guy as my defender. Worked out well for both of us.

                            Maybe I've just been a calculating bitch my whole life. I don't know. of course, my beloved husband has pretty much the exact same story except all of the 'girls' were friends of his sisters who were 7 and 8 years older than he was. He was 15 and she was 22. So, there you go.

                            I wouldn't want to parent a teen today and I dread the moment when Nikolai wants to date. Right now, girls are gross and kissing is disgusting so hopefully he'll stick w/ that for a while.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This article has been in my notes section on FB for quite sometime.Reading Chrisada's post,about the coupling of younger children is What prompted me to post this. The truth is that we ALL have different experiences and tools to help aid us in rearing our kids. I'm a 41 year old mom of little people(8,7,5&4) and that is what consumes me. I posted this in case anyone was curious...this is an article written for muslims by a muslim. It was somewhat shocking to me when I first read it... but ITE it resonated w/me because of my faith. Remember I only posted it to illustrate a Muslim perspective...I only know of one other person on this site that it may or may not directly speak to.

                              Please know that I would Never passive agressivly post something so personal towards anyone on here...
                              I always hold back and feel like I am " out on a limb" when I share.
                              I think I shared this article, w/an admin,once (in a PM)only because I thought she might find it facinating.
                              Last edited by Momo; 05-06-2011, 03:06 AM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X