College Confusion

[peggyfromwastate]

Parents of kids who are about to start college, or looking to apply, or those of you who just recently finished up, I'm really curious about college now...

DD15 is a sophomore, and she took the PSATs for practice at school (not sure what the deal is there-- I'd assume she gets scored but it's supposedly practice?). Her school doesn't do a whole lot of college track planning, at least not that I can see. There are kids who have it All Planned Out of course. DD is not one of them.

DD right now doesn't know if she wants to go to college, doesn't think she'll have success at college, doesn't see the point really, and has no idea what she wants to do when she grows up.

We have had several deep discussions about all this. Dh and I want her to go to college to have her options open, to be able to explore what she wants to do, and to have a buffer between Living at Home and Living in The Real World. We have tried to explain to her how hard it will be to live off of a minimum wage job-- even if she can get one-- and that she'd have to have 2 jobs just to support the basics. She worked a menial labor job moving crates and what not at a local farm here (yes, there's a farm-- although Dh doesn't think it really counts lol), and she really enjoyed the work. She worked hard and found it rewarding. She blew the entire paycheck on one trip to the mall- UGGS and a few outfits. Le Sigh.

DD's spirit and desire to learn has been absolutely crushed by her stupid math. People here are stupid about math, stupid about math tracking, and stupid about making kids take math that is beyond their skill set early on. We have an entire math course that everyone has to take in between regular math and Algebra and it is a seriously messed up class. It's a math-confidance-killer; my friend who is a mathematician can't understand the curriculum. This course has brought all the kids we know to tears on several times. It's so disjointed. I saw multi-variable Calculus concepts in the curriculum, mixed in with wacky 3rd grade stuff. It's just a horrible course. That was the Start of the End for DD- after that class she has never felt OK with math... and that has infected her attitude about school as a whole.

Fast Forward to now. This is her last year of taking a "real" math class. Dh and I decided Calculus would be just stupid to take, she won't pass it, and there's no point. But she is locked into taking pre-calculus because that is the ONLY math class a sophomore is able to take, seeing as she's been fast tracked in math (so she's taken all the basics- through Alg 2 last year which is a required class here for graduation). Her precalculus class is a disaster. The top score in her class is an 81%. No curve. I don't think she can get out of it-- it's just the end of first quarter now. Maybe at the semester.

Anyway, DD excels in such topics as Art, English, and science (more the life-sciences, not so much physics or chemistry). She really does well in English and Art. She is also very good with people, and she's a very empathetic person. I have talked to her about social work, counseling, even education... She lacks confidance in All Things School due to math, however. She thinks these other areas of study aren't valid, because she sucks at math. I tell her that Art is great- It's harder to get a job, but you have to do what you love! And I have many artists in my family-- many many. But... ugh.

So...

What are the kinds of things that make your kids interested in college? If your kids aren't interested, do you think they should go? Should I look to a study abroad type of thing? I don't like study abroad programs that are loosely defined (like the one I did which was pretty awful), but I just am looking for something she can get excited about?

Any thoughts on this topic would be appreciated-- granted it is a VERY open topic!

No need to address anyting pertaining to my DD either. I love the perspective from the recent-grads here too-- as well as from teachers, from parents in the trenches like I am... Just everyone!

[ladymoreta]

Hmm, good question! Would she be willing to consider the military? That could also serve as a buffer while helping her to learn independence from you guys. Or there's the trade school option - my mom went to barber college, and my dad trained as an electrician. Neither went to undergrad, but they've ended up with better jobs than they'd have had straight out of high school. I kind of agree, though, about not going to college just to go. That's a lot of debt to take on at a young age if she's not planning on using her degree.

[corn poffi]

Hmmm...no real advice here. That curriculum sounds pretty messed up. Pre-calc as the only math class for sophomores? That's crazy!

All I can say is focus on the positives. I am also terrible at math. (as in, I've had at least two teachers laugh at me for my stupidity in the subject). Anyway, English was my thing too. I hated math with a passion and just took the courses needed to graduate. I still loved school though, so the not going to college thing was not an issue. I still got into my first-choice school even with my mediocre-to-poor math grades. And it was a pretty selective school too! I had great grades in everything else, was insanely involved in school and the community, etc.

I ended up graduating from a great college without ever taking a math class! I outsmarted the system and found loopholes.

[diggitydot]

Our oldest is 15 and beginning the college exploration, too. She's pretty driven to get into a decent music program at a west coast school, though. She's been attending an honors music magnet program for the last couple of years and her entire world revolves around music in all its incarnations. Her dream school is Reed, but that shit is WAY beyond our means unless she gets a full ride.

DD1 isn't the greatest with math, but she's passable. She's about a B average, but is only in geometry (algebra was freshman year). Her school district's idea of "fast tracking" kids is to have them begin high school math in 8th grade. So she ended up doing the same exact algebra curriculum 2 years in a row, which seems beyond dumb. However, she is SUPER comfortable with it and is much more confident now than she was when she struggled in 8th grade.

Kiddo already took the SATs in 7th grade through a program that allows younger kids the opportunity to take the test because most state tests don't accurately measure their abilities. She scored in the average range for high school seniors, so she was bummed. She didn't realize that scoring "average" compared to kids with 5 more years of schooling was pretty damn good.

[Pollyanna]

Holy crap Peggy, DD17 is taking precalc now. We made her repeat Algebra I H as a freshman because even though she took it in 8th grade it's not the same as taking it in high school. I don't get this huge push in math nowadays. Seriously, they are going to have the kids taking differential equations in middle school before we know it. I just don't understand the rush. In terms of getting her interested in college I would highly encourage you to check out precollege programs that would interest her. There are tons of programs available from 1 week to 6 weeks that allow students to experience college life while doing something they love. Start looking now because they fill fast. Some you have to apply to and others you just sign up. Feel free to pm me and I can help you find a program she might be interested in and tell you about the one's dd17 did.

[DCJenn]

Peggy- Have her audit a spring semester art class at Montgomery College.

J.

(that's the local community college for those of you not there! There's a Germantown campus, a Rockville Campus and a Silver Spring campus.)

[oceanchild]

The PSAT really is a practice test as a sophomore. It's a practice test as a junior, too, except that they determine National Merit from junior scores, so it can possibly matter. But as a sophomore, definitely just practice.

I was one of those super-gunner overachievers in high school, so my own experience isn't especially relevant here. My little brother, though, was super smart and totally not motivated, and I was sure he wasn't going to end up going to college. What really worked for him was taking lots of community college courses in high school, and getting mail from colleges. From what I've heard, dual-enrollment is only getting more common. When my brother did it, it was through an alternative high school at the community college - I understand it's much easier to do alongside a standard high school curriculum now. And like J and T said, getting a taste of college can really help clarify things.

Once she gets PSAT scores, she will probably start getting mail from colleges. Maybe some of it will catch her eye. My little brother ended up at Whitman (which I only mention because it's in WA so you've probably heard of it). He applied there in like March of his senior year (way late). It was GREAT for him. The small school environment really motivated him and got him involved in school life (which he never was in high school). I didn't go to a small liberal arts college, but everyone I know who did just really sings their praises.

Obviously, there are lots of great options besides going to college. And both my siblings are now doing jobs that don't require college degrees. But both of them are really glad they did go to college. I'd encourage her to really explore her options.

[alison]

Will she be a junior in your new location next year?
I wonder if living in a college town will spark an interest in going to college.

[peggyfromwastate]

I totally think Whitman would be a great fit for her. But... Prob her grades are not good enough maybe a transfer.

[peggyfromwastate]

Lol Alison. I hope so.

She will be a junior.

This makes applying to college a bit trickier because we will be moving to who knows where the summer when she starts college-- just after high school graduation.

I'm hoping to get her to take some comm college classes next year- she's already met almost all of her grad requirements for California schools. It's hard to do anything now living across the country.

Jenn auditing an art class would be great-- I'm sure she'd like that!

I just feel old!!! So old!!!

[alison]

Do you know which high school she'll be going to? There are two that I can think of -- one of which is across the street from campus.

[scrub-jay]

I went to a private school and they give crazy student aid (I got more from private than I did public) and they look at the whole person during the application process.

[Sheherezade]

I'm right there with you, Peggy. My son is also 15 and in 10th grade. He has shown little interest in colleges but does intend to go. He just thinks it is light years away and wonders why I keep mentioning it. It makes me crazy. I've also heard that the college mail makes a difference. As does visiting campuses casually when you are in the area of a college. We hope to do that some this summer to see if we can inspire him to think about it.

He is also on an accelerated math -- he has Trig this year. I don't think they offer a terminal pre-calc here. They have this weird "Fundamentals of Math" class that's the alternate sophomore class to kids stepping off the track. He does well in all his classes and is very academic but that doesn't seem to directly relate to showing an interest in college. Honestly, I think talking about it freaks him out and he avoids it because he doesn't want to grow up and leave. Hell, I don't want that either - but I realize it is inevitable and we best prepare. I think he gets anxious about the whole thing - but maybe he really doesn't even have it on his radar screen yet.

I guess twoType A's don't necessarily breed Type A children.

[Pollyanna]

Here is a pretty good link for summer programs, but by no means exhaustive. http://www.teenink.com/Summer/ If you have a student that is willing to go away for a few weeks then doing one of these programs is worth every penny. Seriously, there is nothing like actually experiencing living away on a college campus to really get to know how you feel about a campus and about living away from home. DD17 first year away she discovered that she could live away from home and could do her own laundry, etc. She also discovered that she did not like the Duke campus at all (I know, horror of horrors, lol). The next summer she solidified her desire to go to Sewanee and also realized that what she wanted was a small campus not the larger one she previously imagined. These experiences just provide so much more insight for a child than a college visit is able to do. It also helps getting into some undergraduate programs (even though they say it doesn't the insiders for some programs will tell you that they want students that really want their school, this is especially true of smaller liberal arts programs).

[SoonerTexan]

I have a lit to say on the subject but I'll wait until I'm off my iPhone. Oceanchild hit quite a bit of it though