Tween School advice

[houseelf]

I have hungrily read the college confusion thread. I'm a couple years behind you all in this. Give me your best advice on guiding my kid through curriculum choices, tracking, and testing. What have you learned along the way that you can share with me? Reading that thread makes me realize that I know nothing about this stuff. Help. My sons' friends were over the other night and I found out that their older brothers have all had tutors just to keep up with the AP curriculum. Uh, when did this phenomenon start happening?

Also, give me your thoughts about middle school and high school sports teams. What do you wish you knew about try outs, schedules, preparing for this level of team sports, etcetera? Do you really have to do more than just rec league to be able to make the cut for M.S. or H.S.? I'm not a fan of select teams but it feels like you almost have to do it at some level just to allow your kid to keep playing. Remember when kids seamlessly played three sports a year instead of just one year round?

Holy crap, I know nothing about any of this. Hit me with everything you got. If you've got any good reads for the upcoming teen years, I'm all ears.

[BonBon]

All I have to say is I'm going to put my head in the sand. You parents of older kids scare the pants off me.

[Meenah]

I would encourage any and all sports, because it keeps them occupied after school and on weekends, if you know what I mean!!!!

[diggitydot]

I think a lot depends on the district. When we were in AZ, the school was VERY quick to test both girls for their talented and gifted programs. They both missed he cutoff by a couple tenths of percentage points, but their teachers ended up giving them more difficult/advanced material to keep them challenged. In our current district, the girls were put into advanced/honors programs very quickly. Both are now attending honors magnet schools that are good fits for them and their learning styles.

Teams sports issues are also regional. Girls volleyball where I'm from is SUPER competitive even at the middle school level. Here, it's not all that competitive until high school or college. Football, baseball/softball, cheer, and hockey are ridiculously competitive once they vacate the womb around here. It's kinda crazy.

A lot of kids play league sports outside of school and do physical conditioning year-round. Our oldest (HS sophomore) played softball for a few years and like it for a while and was really good. She soured on it after hitting high school. She just wasn't into the year-round conditioning and fund-raising. That, and she kind of stopped hanging out with the same group of girls that she started playing ball with in middle school. It just wasn't fun for her, anymore.

DD2 (6th grade) has done track and is now in Lego robotics. They didn't have to try-out for track, but had pretty rigorous try-out for robotics. Their school is not typical for this area. She's at a high honors magnet school that has an insane selection process. The kids at this school are wicked smart. A little iffy on the social end of the spectrum, but scary smart.

[diggitydot]

Oh, what ALL the kids' coaches have said is that effort beats talent every single day. DD2 is not speedy at all, but she worked her ass off and helped keep other people amped up. She's a natural cheerleader and her teammates and coaches LOVED her for her attitude.

[Sheherezade]

Stop the roller coaster is a good read for dealing with teens emotionally. I'm just about to dive back in to that for the perspective on a teen girl this time around.

So far, my son is doing fine in his first AP class. No tutor needed. The AP load is crazy here though with lots of seniors taking 5 AP classes their senior year. I think it's pretty standard here to have a few AP classes each year after hitting 10th grade.

My son is in soccer. He stopped playing club in 6th grade when the overuse popped his ACL. *grumble*. He has played JV each year and hopes to make Varsity next year. Fingers crossed. The club play makes a huge difference. This year 4 freshmen from club teams went straight on to the Varsity squad. Of course, they get less play time and are ganging with the seniors so maybe that's not an achievement you want, honestly.

[houseelf]

No, I don't have any expectations that he plays Varsity as a freshman. I just want him to make the team. This is where I am unable to "see" where he is, you know?

It really feels like things have changed a lot. I have to say that part of this may be where we live. Competitive parenting is de rigeur here. We moved here for the excellent schools and we got excellent schools....because parents push, push, push their kids in good and sometimes bad ways. Even the educators will tell you here that the reasons the kids do so well is the parents. It is heaven and hell all at once.

[Ladybug]

I don't have kids there yet, but I do see a lot from my nursing perch here in the school. It's highly individual. Some kids want and can swing it all. Others start to show physical symptoms...fatigue, chronic headaches, anxiety, hives, eating disorders, depression, drugs, etc. I will probably tell my kids to go for it, with an understanding that if we start to see physical/emotional symptoms we will sit down and discuss how to make life healthy again and assess priorities. That in itself is a critical life skill that we hope to instill while they are still under our roof and guidance, so I don't think it's a bad thing at all if we go through that process together and it's not something that I would want to avoid totally. I don't think I'll approach this with a goal of "success" but a goal of helping them to learn how to manage their stress, expectations of themselves and their schedules. I work in a highly competitive academic environment, and we have parents that place unrealistic expectations on their children and it creates a lot of stress and mental health issues at early ages. Really.early.ages. I think without this job I might have been one of the parents so I'm really grateful for this experience.

[Pollyanna]

In terms of taking "high school" classes in middle school, if your child does not breeze through it in middle school with near 100% on absolutely assignment and test I would make them repeat that class in high school. I know people gasp at that idea but kids are being set up for failure thinking they are fully completing high school curriculum in middle school. There is no rush to be in the highest math/language, trust me. Carrying that over into high school, how does class selection work? Will your children have to be on an AP track and only take AP or will they be able to pick and choose? DD17 will finish high school with 7 AP classes, which is not near the number many kids will have but she didn't want to drop band in order to have more APs. She felt in the long run band would be better for her than 5 more AP classes. Our friends just went to a college visit at a large well thought of state university and were told that they don't care about strength of schedule, just GPA (this is just in terms of grades and coursework, obviously they factor in other items on your child's CV).

In terms of sports it really depends on your high school. If you don't play club soccer you are not likely to make the team at our high school. At my friends school, they tell them straight out that if you are not on a club team will will never move beyond varsity. They actually separate the kids on the first day of try outs. If your child is fine with that and realize they won't play senior year (seniors may not be on a JV team) then I would not worry about it. Of course they don't have to play on every club team but having some athletic ability will help. Middle school is a great time to try out different sports to see what they might like in high school. Around here middle school sports are pretty low pressure so it's a good venue for experimenting. We have told our kiddos that we would like them to have a sport and a fine art in high school. DD17 has dance and band, DS15 has football/baseball and band (this will likely change to photography/videography next year). This allows them to develop in more areas than just academic or physical. One thing coaches like about the club team kids is that they know how to work their asses off. Not that you have to be on a club team to be a hard worker, and not all club team members are hard workers but it's just a steep learning curve for kids who are not used to 15 hours of practice/week. Most importantly, encourage your child to try as many things as he can in middle school.

The number one thing about navigating middle school is love your child and be really patient. These are hard sucky years for every kid. They are stuck in between, some still wanting to be little and others ready to be in high school. They are all of a sudden having to deal with teen pregnancy, drugs, sex, suicide, cutting, etc. It's a lot for them to process. If you have a good kid, let them be a good kid, let up on the little rules (screen time, etc) and focus on the big stuff, namely safety and morality. Switch up home chores (and maybe even eliminate some) during times when you can tell they are overwhelmed. Talk, talk, talk, and be in tune with what is going on in their lives. Focusing mostly on safety and morality means you aren't nitpicking about a clean room or spilt water by the dog bowl. They need lots of hugs (even when they don't want then) and a safe place to land when they come home. Doing all of this and getting them in a good emotional and mental place when starting high school will go much farther than having the "right" curriculum or sport.

[samssugarmomma]

Tara -
You are so wise! You kids are so lucky to have such great parents. I hope that I can be like you when my kids get there.

Kate

[Phoebe]

I am reading this with interest, but wanting to hide with Bon Bon in the sand.

[peggyfromwastate]

I've been waiting to respond until I have my computer... Too much to type on the phone lol!

Cracks knuckles....

Just kidding.

As far as tracking kids. I was NOT PREPARED at all for the early tracking and the hard push on math in our area. I think this might be a trend-- pushing math so that in order to be "on grade level" you have to actually be "one grade ahead". What a self esteem builder for the younger grades. Just awesome.

As far as middle school, listen to your kid and try to see if they really are OK with the track they are on. We tried to change Kate out of her fast track in 7th grade (she was in Algebra, which goes on her high school transcripts, and she was struggling). They wouldn't let us change. I remember sitting in a conference with all her teachers (think firing squad) and every single teacher told me that she was not performing to her capability. They *knew* she could do more, but she just wasn't. I was so disheartened. I didn't even think to ask the OBVIOUS question-- "What TANGIBLE thing does she need to work on?" I wish I had turned the tables on those teachers (seriously, 7 teachers all facing me semi-circle. Just obnoxious.) I am sure they would not have had any actual steps in mind. Just me riding her ass harder at home? Just me going nuts over a "B" or a "C" on a project? There was little guidance offered to her or to me in middle school. But when I did advocate for her to be in a different math track, I was shot down. "This is the right math for her. She just needs to work harder." This could be a valid argument, but she WAS working on it at night. She was crying over math daily. I wish I had advocated harder for her to be tracked right in math, though.

As far as going to a competetive school, I will tell you that when we finally settle in an area at The Job I am going to sacrifice square footage in my house to get into the BEST school possible. It's the peer group, baby. Kate went to middle school at a VERY highly competetive magnet school. It's super tough to get in, but she scores very well on standardized exams and is a beautiful writer when she wants to be. Her essay was good (yes, an essay for an application to a middle school magnet program), and her teacher recs were good from elem school. The magnet environment was good for her, because in spite of her teachers constantly complaining that she wasn't working up to her potential, her peer group was for the most part on the ball. True, lots of them were Asians, and the family honor pretty much depended on their GPAs, but in general the students were all just more serious.

For high school, she didn't want to continue on the magnet track. We were disappointed in the magnet at that point-- there was a big budget cut and magnet programs were being slashed, and Kate wanted to take art in high school but with the magnet program she had ZERO electives. Plus the magnet was a 45 minute bus ride away, and what a monumental PITA that is.... So we went to our local high school instead. Our high school is a lower-performing high school for our area. It's the school with a lot of teenage pregnancies, some gangsters, other problems like that. This school is not ghetto, though. There are some rough kids, but not many. Mostly they are wannabe gangsters. Most hard core gangsters have washed out of high school and are just out there selling drugs by high school age. The school is nasty and falling apart (literally). The peer group is less focused. Some of them want to go to college, because they want to "get out" of the cycle. There are a lot of Black students, barely any Asians (Asians will move to a different zip code rather than send their kids here), and lots of Hispanics. Kate is made fun of daily for being White. Most of her friends are not white. It's just the mix of the school. It doesn't bother her. She likes the people. The PEER GROUP is not focused on college as a whole. They are focused on day to day, gossip, and the next pair of Air Jordans that they want to buy. Most of them don't look beyond the weekend. That's just the way it is. Not a focused peer group. This leads to some of her disillusionment about college, etc. Keep in mind from our high school, a lot will end up going to college. Just living in this area, it's a smaller percentage than the schools around us. I want to say that something like 70-80% of her school's high school graduates do go on to college, but I'm not sure. I know that the really good academic schools in my area have a rate of around 85-95% though.

OK--

So, as far as your kids, I think that since they are in the highly competetive district, their peer group will help them to focus earlier on for college and what not. Same goes for AP classes. Kate is taking one AP class, and it's an entirely different peer group from those she normally hangs with, and these kids are more focused as a whole. They are interested in world politics, are good readers, talking about college, etc. She doesn't like the class, but so what. I would not say the work is overwhelming. I would say it's worthwhile to take an AP class because they will learn to READ info (she has nightly reading to do) and to take notes on that info-- these basics are sadly not taught well in the basic HONOR level classes. I don't know about having a tutor for AP classes. If needed, I guess. But probably not worth it to me. I plan to have her stick to AP classes in the areas where she's already "solid" and sort of interested in the topic at hand. I wouldn't force any of them to take AP classes in a subject they don't like. It's not going to make them like a subject, but it might kill a GPA.

SPORTS!!!

Kate did rec league soccer starting in 5th grade. It was a fight to get her there. She didn't do any sports in middle school through the school, but middle school sports are not a big deal here. Most people are doing rec leagues or formal teams by then. This past year she played soccer on the school JV team. I would agree that without her being a travel-team level soccer player (year round soccer) she will never make the Varsity squad here. And that's OK-- she's ok with that. The JV team was the right level for her-- she had the comfort and knowledge with the game needed to do well and have success. She would get killed in Varsity. She's just not looking for a college scholarship, and seems like most Varsity players are really really good.

Ironically, even though we live in one of the craziest regions for swimming, our high school does not cut for joining the swim team. I remember her first swim meet last year when I realized that Steven (at age 9) was faster than many of the kids who were swimming. I think most of the "awesome" swimmers live in a different zip code too lol. Although our team captains were very very good-- All American swimmers, etc.

Anyway, for sports, I think it just varies.

What is the crazy popular sport in the area? Is that a sport C wants to play? If so, I would say look to a rec league first. The WILL scout out athletes from a rec league (I have seen 8 year olds scouted out to the next level of competetive team for soccer, and the parents of the little phenom are told things like "it's just not fair to the other players to have your player here with them-- little johnny is too good for this league.") If your kid isn't scouted out, and/or if you don't want to go the crazy competetive sports route, just don't.

Another thing I have seen is a lot of injuries. On kids 12 and under. On Steven's swim team, one girl had a total shoulder surgery for some tears this past summer. She's back in the water now, though-- she's 10. I saw a 9 year old boy who broke his arm back in the water at 1 week doing drills, and had the (special ordered 800$) cast removed after 3 weeks (vs the 4-6 the doc wanted) so that he could get back in the water. I have seen concussions... SO MANY concussions!!!

Anyway, sorry for this rambling diatribe....



As all things parenting, follow your mommy instincts and you will be fine. Try to not listen to the uber competetive parent next to you bragging about what their little superstar is doing. And... This is a hard one.... Try to let your kid make choices and live with the consequences. I struggle with seeing my kids as extentions of myself. I swear I am more embarrassed by DD's grades when she gets bad grades than she is. I feel like I've failed... It's so hard.

Be there to talk, and to listen, and to take away the cell phone when needed, and to enforce texting limits (ATT smart limits are working for us...).

High school now is way harder than it was when I was there. That's my opinion, and I blame the internet and social media!! LOL.

[houseelf]

This is such a fantastic thread! (I read it with delight: Yeah there are others out there! And also dread: Holy shit, it is as crazy out there as it seems)! Please, keep talk, talk, talking!

Academically, my gut says he's on the right track in advanced math. Once in a blue moon, his advanced math overwhelmed him, seriously maybe two timesr which I believe is more of a product from coming from a montessori curriculum rather than a failure to comprehend. This year advanced math has been pretty manageable. This is only 6th grade, so I understand this can change on a dime. I appreciate the heads up that this is something to continually watch. Like Ladybug, I could be an obnoxious parent here so I need to check my ego at the door and make sure that the curriculum fits the kid.

Regarding sports, to put it delicately, so far I'm pretty certain we have no future NCAA athletes. His true love is lacrosse, even though dear ol' mom tried to direct him to less aggressive sports. Gee, honey, doesn't tennis sound like FUN! He took a rec class once a week and was like, Yeah this is cool, whatever. (Yes, when did "whatever" begin to constitute a response?) Fortunately, his true love sport, lacrosse, doesn't cut in our district. (Yeah small town schools)! Besides liking the sport, it is kind of how he makes his buddies. He enjoys soccer but my gut says that he'll never make the cut for the school team unless he has some club exposure. I need to ensure that club is what HE wants, however. This is what I'm having a hard time teasing out. I don't want him to have any regrets later on about not being able to continue with a sport he enjoys because he was ill prepared. On the other hand, I know that he has mentioned cross country, and this doesn't cut either. There is a back up plan.

I agree with Luanne that occupied teens with goals tend to do better. I just don't want to superimpose my ego on any of my kids. It is a very fine line. I want my kids to know that I love them regardless of their accomplishments (although accomplishments are great!)

Socially, we've already had some wobbles, but I guess that is middle school par for the course. It is a helluva lot harder to experience the second time around. He had a major close buddy break up this week. I have also already learned that at this age, they know who they want to hang around. Mom can only steer so much. I'm going to hold off saying too much socially because I'm under the impression that groups of friends change around a bit. I'm still waiting to see how this all plays out.

I've monitored his media somewhat. He alleges that he's the "only" kid not allowed to play mature games and the house rule of no weekday gaming is lame. "Whatevs, Cade". I really don't allow sassy teen/tween dramas in this house at all. I don't like that model of adolescence. I have literally read author after author from multiple disciplines who decry the media influence on kids and teens. Yet there we all are at the pool singing Lady Gaga with my seven year old inquiring "Mom, what is a menage a trois?"

God save us all.



I'm going to label myself old here by stating that things really are more intense and start earlier nowadays. <sigh>

[peggyfromwastate]

I thought it was Katy perry with the manage a trois... Or maybe gaga and Katy perry were in on it together! I'll have to ask the 15 yo. Just kidding.

Here lacrosse is big. Kate wanted to play and I said- why? We don't play lacrosse out west. Idk. Probably they do. But the concussions I mentioned? Lacrosse is a big concussion causer Probably more than football.

I wish we still had the system where you can have 3 sports. Now it seems that those who do more than 1 have their specialty sport and then their hobbies. They will not achieve excellence in the non-primary sport bc the competition is too stiff! I don't know of any exception at dd15s school. Her school is big though- I think around 2000 students.

[Sheherezade]

We have three seasons for sports here. Our problem is that all the same kids play all three sports -- they definitely have a "jock" click. I wish it was a little more evenly divided.

The friends thing is hard for us here, too. My DS had a great friend in middle school. Good kid, good family - they hung out every stinking day. Then, a month before high school started his mom stopped by to tell me that she was sending him to a private school. She didn't know how to break it to the boys. Sadly, they don't see each other anymore. He has made new buds, though - but no one super close. Freshman year he totally isolated himself in the weekend and afterschool hours outside of practices. This was probably a good thing because that's the first year we started hearing about kids we know getting stopped for drinking and drugs at parties. I personally believe he pulled himself out of socializing until he knows how to deal with those types of situations. They are everywhere. We are in a very high performing district with a high socio-economic bracket -- but we have drug dogs sweep the school now. It's out there. And these days, when they mention names, I KNOW who the kids are. That's a little freaky for me.

I wish my kids did more activities. I haven't pushed them. They do the required "one sport or activity" per season that I've imposed on them - but they are both home bodies. If anyone has a solution to that, please let me know. They just don't seem to catch fire with any new club/group/sport.

My only academic planning story comes from something that happened this year. DS (15) decided he'd like to push himself and double up on sciences. He likes science so he planned to take Honors Chem and AP Physics. This, along with Honors Trig, Honors English, Spanish 3, and AP US History. Somehow, this didn't seem like a bad idea to me -- in fact I was happy he was pushing himself because he always does well without trying very hard.

Weeeelllll.....it took 2 days of that schedule for me to see we were making a mistake. He was up until midnight trying to figure out the Physics and upset about it. I ended up telling him that there was no shame in realizing he was over his head early -- in fact, that was probably more mature than struggling for weeks and ending up with bad grades in the other classes as well. He went to his counselor and reworked his schedule to put AP Physics off until next year - and took an art class for his Fine Arts requirement. Our high school is run very much like a small college with a certain number of credits required to graduate - and certain credits of each type ,etc. There is a lot of flexibility in their scheduling and there are a LOAD of electives. I'm glad he's trying some out now. His grades so far are solid and he told me that he thinks he could have handled the Physics if he'd stuck with it -- but I think he's a saner kid without it. No rush.

He absolutely loves AP History. It's fun to watch him get so opinionated about things like the Federalists and Woodrow Wilson. LOL The teacher is one of those inspiring types you remember forever. I'm pretty sure right now he trusts him more than me. Try to get those teachers for your kids if you can!!