Cookie Ingredient Question

I'm going to bake some oatmeal raisin cookies for a colleague as a holiday treat. I've made them before from the recipe on the side of the oatmeal box and they turned out fine.

However, I want to do two things differently for his batch and am wondering the impact these changes might have on the final product.

1) I want to use the Betty Crocker recipe which doesn't call for shortening because I don't think we have any in the house and I don't want to buy a tub of shortening for this alone. Betty says I can substitute 4 oz. of applesauce for the shortening. I believe Betty also asks that I increase the cinnamon and vanilla if I do this -- why is that? But more important how might applesauce vs. shortening influence the cookie?

2) My friend loves them less sweet and always says that people who bake them for him simply reduce the sugar. Betty's original recipe asks for 2/3 cup of granulated sugar AND 2/3 cup brown sugar. Instead, I was planning to simply use 1/2 cup of granulated and 1/2 cup of brown to reduce the sweetness. Thoughts?

Thanks!

[DCJenn]

Kevin-

the shortening will add moisture and fat to the cookies- applesauce will just add moisture so the cookies might be less tender but they will have good flavor.

The applesauce will also add sweetness to the cookies, so I'd reduce one of the sugars but not both. The sugar also adds volumes to the dough so you don't want to reduce it too much.

I'm sure that the additional spices somehow chemically change things to make the cookies more tender without the shortening.

Let us know how they turn out.

Jenn

[Vanquisher]

Baking is tricky, my friend. Applesauce can be substituted for oil, but it can alter the consistency of the final product by quite a bit. In such a large quantity, I would be wary and more apt to substitue butter. Shortening tends to make softer cookies that are more puffy. Butter cookies tend to be flatter, but have that yummy butter flavor. I would use softened butter. I think this could be substitued without much problem though. I really don't think the applesauce would work. I usually only substitue applesauce for vegetable oil.

Less sweet cookies? What?? I don't know anything about that, but I think cutting down on sugar would also change the consistency of the cookies. Maybe someone else can help you here. I also think that if you substitute too much in a recipe, it can go poorly.

[DCJenn]

Kevin-

Heidi is right about the fluffy factor although if the butter is softened with water, it'll add way too much moisture to your already moister dough.

Split the shortening with half butter and half applesauce?

Hopefully Nellie will check in and give you an expert's opinion. I called my mom but she's not home. (we refer to her as "Brenda Stewart, Martha's poorer cousin)

Jenn

And another opinion...though I mostly agree with what Jenn and Heidi said.

1. Shortening. Blech. Yes, it has its place but I usually just sub butter (softened) without a problem. In this case, I don't think it will make a difference. The applesauce is probably a low-fat version and you increase the cinnamon and vanilla to make up for the flavor change. I say skip the applesauce. Low-fat and Christmas are not a good mix, IMO. That's what New Year's resolutions are for.

2. I would decrease the white sugar to 1/2 cup and leave the brown. The brown sugar has more moisture and flavor and I'd keep more of it in favor of the white. That 1/4 cup should make enough of a difference, again, IMO. If you want, also scale back the brown sugar by 2 T.

[Vanquisher]

Kevin-

Heidi is right about the fluffy factor although if the butter is softened with water, it'll add way too much moisture to your already moister dough.

Split the shortening with half butter and half applesauce?

Jenn

By softening, I meant microwave it for just a few seconds or let it sit at room temp for a bit. Don't melt it though. I've never heard of softening with water?

Half butter half applesauce might work.

[Vanquisher]

Nellie sounds spot on.

I agree w/Jenn's 1/2 and 1/2 suggestion of butter / applesauce. Pure substitutions of applesauce tend to make things dryer. As for the spice increase, I usually don't find much of a chemical change when I increase the spices -- and I usually double the spice quotent for most book recipes to punch the flavor.

I'd be very careful with reducing the sugar, as it does change the texture of the dough - and with oatmeal cookies the texture is already a bit dicey. Plus, the oatmeal itself will sop up a lot of the moisture, which you're already reducing by substituting the applesauce. I'd suggest trimming down to 1/2 c white sugar and keep the brown sugar the same.

I think we may be bringing the "too many cooks in the kitchen" to life!

[DCJenn]

Hey, ask a question on this website and you WILL get answers. and we haven't had to move it to the debate section yet, so I'm happy with a healthy dialogue.

Kevin- this may be one of those "several batch" experiments!

Heidi- I was thinking of that butter that you can buy that's been softened- that whipped stuff. (why bother...I personally am a huge fan of butter and when I'm feeling flush, I'll buy the European butters. YUM-MY.)

Jenn

Thanks Jenn and Heidi.

From your responses, I'm thinking about looking harder for that shortening -- it might be hidden in the cabinets. I think I did throw out and old one last year but am hoping that I replaced it with a new one (could be a false memory).

Jenn - I think the fatiness would be good myself. So, maybe I will try to hunt down or buy that shortening. If I reduce only one sugar -- does it matter which I would reduce? I'm thinking I'll just drop granulated from 2/3 cup down to 1/2 cup and leave the brown sugar at 2/3 cup.

Heidi - I see your point about the butter for shortening substitution, but I believe Betty already wants me to use butter plus shortening, so I'm a little hesitant to in effect double the butter.

As to the question about sweetness, I'm not sure why he prefers it. Me, I'm with you, I like my cookies sweet!

But my friend is a character and he leaves no doubt about what he likes. We work together on a project and he has become sort of the grandfather I never really had. He's in his seventies, a dentist and professor, and a native of Boston and also went to school in New York. So, he speaks mind about everything -- which as I'm sure both of you know isn't typical here in the south.

He's in Miami right now so I'll have to put these babies in the mail. And because I'm lazy -- anyone know when Hannukah starts this year? I'd like to have them in his hands in time if possible.

Thanks. I'll let you know how it turns out. I usually bake cakes. I baked chocolate chip cookies earlier this week to assemble these little gift bags for lots of folks at work (with hershey's kisses, candy canes, in some special cellophane stuff / ribbon). That's about as crafty as I get.

I do remember thinking the last time I made oatmeal raisin cookies that they were more of a pain than choc chips though.

Hannukah starts at sundown on Christmas this year.

Good luck!

[DCJenn]

Kevin-

Hanukah (sp) starts on 12/25 this year.

Jenn

Thanks everyone. As you can see, I typed my previous thread before reading the additional comments.

Question for Nellie: if butter is already part of the recipe and I sub butter where shortening was will there be any ill-effects? Or just rich and moist cookies?

Jenn: Please don't scare me with the multiple batch scenario . I'm a little burnt out from the craftiness of my other office cookies and have been told I need to clean the house before SIL arrives on Friday. DW has a shelf exam on Friday, so I can't blame her.

Well, sundown on the 25th -- looks like I can experience baking failure this week and still get a quality batch there on time.

I know for sure they will taste more buttery. The rest is my best guess....I think that the butter will make the cookie spread more which can also make it crunchier. By keeping the brown sugar amount the same, you will keep more moisture (offset crispiness from all butter) than you would with the white sugar. So, I would not reduce the brown sugar at all.

One thing I would be sure to do -- use a cool cookie sheet and let the cookie sheets cool completely between batches. You could also scoop and then refrigerate the dough balls and then put them straight into the oven. That will help a bit with the spreading issue.

Be sure to let us know how they turn out.