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Book Club Discussion

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  • Book Club Discussion

    Hello All,

    I'm pleased to say that April 4th has arrived and we can start discussing. There is a "book club" guide posted on the book's website so I thought I would start by posting those questions. We can start with the first one and then when that runs out of steam, perhaps we can discuss the next one? I'll post all the questions here so we can see them. I'll respond to the first question below.

    DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

    1. There is a telling passage about Mortenson’s change of direction at the start of the book: “One evening, he went to bed by a yak dung fire a mountaineer who’d lost his way, and one morning, by the time he’d shared a pot of butter tea with his hosts and laced up his boots, he’d become a humanitarian who’d found a meaningful path to follow for the rest of his life.” What made Mortenson particularly ripe for such a transformation? Has anything similar happened in your own life?

    2. Relin gives a “warts and all” portrait of Mortenson, showing him as a hero but also as a flawed human being with some exasperating traits. Talk about how Relin chose to write about Mortenson’s character—his choice of details, his perspective, the way he constructs scenes. Is Mortenson someone you’d like to get to know, work with, or have as a neighbor or friend?

    3. At the heart of the book is a powerful but simple political message: we each as individuals have the power to change the world, one cup of tea at a time. Yet the book powerfully dramatizes the obstacles in the way of this philosophy: bloody wars waged by huge armies, prejudice, religious extremism, cultural barriers. What do you think of the “one cup of tea at a time” philosophy? Do you think Mortenson’s vision can work for lasting and meaningful change?

    4. Have you ever known anyone like Mortenson? Have you ever had the experience of making a difference yourself through acts of generosity, aid, or leadership?

    5. The Balti people are fierce yet extremely hospitable, kind yet rigid, determined to better themselves yet stuck in the past. Discuss your reactions to them and the other groups that Mortenson tries to help.

    6. After Haji Ali’s family saves Greg’s life, he reflects that he could never “imagine discharging the debt he felt to his hosts in Korphe.” Discuss this sense of indebtedness as key to Mortenson’s character. Why was Mortenson compelled to return to the region again and again? In your opinion, does he repay his debt by the end of the book?

    7. References to paradise run throughout the book—Mortenson’s childhood home in Tanzania, the mountain scenery, even Berkeley, California, are all referred to as “paradise.” Discuss the concept of paradise, lost and regained, and how it influences Mortenson’s mission.

    8. Mortenson’s transition from climbing bum to humanitarian hero seems very abrupt. However, looking back, it’s clear that his sense of mission is rooted in his childhood, the values of his parents, and his relationship with his sister Christa. Discuss the various facets of Mortenson’s character—the freewheeling mountain climber, the ER nurse, the devoted son and brother, and the leader of a humanitarian cause. Do you view him as continuing the work his father began?

    9. “I expected something like this from an ignorant village mullah, but to get those kinds of letters from my fellow Americans made me wonder whether I should just give up,” Mortenson remarked after he started getting hate mail in the wake of September 11. What was your reaction to the letters Mortenson received?

    10. Mortenson hits many bumps in the road—he’s broke, his girlfriend dumps him, he is forced to build a bridge before he can build the school, his health suffers, and he drives his family crazy. Discuss his repeated brushes with failure and how they influenced your opinion of Mortenson and his efforts.

    11. The authors write that “the Balti held the key to a kind of uncomplicated happiness that was disappearing in the developing world.” This peaceful simplicity of life seems to be part of what attracts Mortenson to the villagers. Discuss the pros and cons of bringing “civilization” to the mountain community.

    12. Much of the book is a meditation on what it means to be a foreigner assimilating with another culture. Discuss your own experiences with foreign cultures—things that you have learned, mistakes you have made, misunderstandings you have endured.

    13. Did the book change your views toward Islam or Muslims? Consider the cleric Syed Abbas, and also the cleric who called a fatwa on Mortenson. Syed Abbas implores Americans to “look into our hearts and see that the great majority of us are not terrorists, but good and simple people.” Discuss this statement. Has the book inspired you to learn more about the region?
    Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
    Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

  • #2
    In response to question 1, I think the failure made him ripe for transformation. I think there's nothing more transformative that abject failure. Especially when you understand that he had put everything into his goal of climbing K2 to the point of having no plans when he returned back to California. I think that "clean slate" of a life suddenly with no plans really opened him to this opportunity. There's something irresistible about finding direction where you have none (or previously had some but now it's gone).
    Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
    Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll jump in with #3

      3. At the heart of the book is a powerful but simple political message: we each as individuals have the power to change the world, one cup of tea at a time. Yet the book powerfully dramatizes the obstacles in the way of this philosophy: bloody wars waged by huge armies, prejudice, religious extremism, cultural barriers. What do you think of the “one cup of tea at a time” philosophy? Do you think Mortenson’s vision can work for lasting and meaningful change?

      I have to respectfully disagree.

      Firstly, I don't think it's a political message (technically speaking) as much as I found it to a be a humanitarian message. One that transcends political ideologies. And secondly, I don't think the message was celebrating an individual's act, but a collaborative community creating change. He provided the impetus, the spark, so to speak, but the work was achieved through the collaboration and cooperation of so many others. He couldn't not have negotiated the domestic cultural barriers without dedicated help...from the heart, and neither funded the projects nor physically built the schools. This was far from an individual achievement, and I'm sure that Mortenson would agree if you were to ask him...over a cuppa tea. But then there is such a deeper, more complex beauty to community than there is in individualism. I think his dedication is sacrifical, and that is a timeless message that will always work for lasting and meaningful change. Sacrifical love is the most distilled form of love, and it ripples throughout eternity.
      -Ladybug

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll tackle #8:

        8. Mortenson’s transition from climbing bum to humanitarian hero seems very abrupt. However, looking back, it’s clear that his sense of mission is rooted in his childhood, the values of his parents, and his relationship with his sister Christa. Discuss the various facets of Mortenson’s character—the freewheeling mountain climber, the ER nurse, the devoted son and brother, and the leader of a humanitarian cause. Do you view him as continuing the work his father began?



        I do see it as an extension of the journey that his parents started when they went to Africa. I think when you're raised with the 'family business' being helping people- in a foreign land and being able to do it successfully and most importantly, within the culture (respect, in other words) it's going to rub off. I don't think he realized it until much later though.

        It could have gone the other way, too- the desire to never travel again. Much like if you've spent your childhood (or entire medical marriage) moving, once you do settle down, it can be a let down.

        The curiosity about other people and other cultures is hard to get rid of if you're bitten by it. My own travel experiences continually make me itch to go again. I dream of ending up with a dog, a backpack, my husband and no debt.

        Jenn

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ladybug View Post
          And secondly, I don't think the message was celebrating an individual's act, but a collaborative community creating change. He provided the impetus, the spark, so to speak, but the work was achieved through the collaboration and cooperation of so many others. He couldn't not have negotiated the domestic cultural barriers without dedicated help...from the heart, and neither funded the projects nor physically built the schools. This was far from an individual achievement, and I'm sure that Mortenson would agree if you were to ask him...over a cuppa tea.

          ITA. As I was reading, I felt there wasn't enough credit given to Haji Ali and others in a similar position. Clearly, there were some village elders who did not agree as shown by the fatwa against Moretenson. There might not have been any other employees or people as actively involved as Moretenson on the US side, but he never could have done this without the support of people who helped him in Pakistan.

          Off topic from the questions listed...I think Relin has used up his allowance for the use of "vertiginous". I counted three times. The writing really slowed me down until I went into skim mode. Five stars for the story and three stars for the writing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Nellie- I totally agree about the story (great) and the book (painful in parts)

            I actually skipped a large section of the middle, then went back and skimmed them after I'd read the rest of the book.

            Jenn

            Comment


            • #7
              I started skimmming in the middle too. I thought it was just because I was new baby mommy brain, but I guess I'm not the only one that found it a little wordy.

              One of the things that really struck me about the book was the Balti children's thirst to learn. That they would sit there unsupervised with almost no materials and still try to learn. What's happened to us? Do you think it's our education system that has systematically destroyed the the natural thirst to learn in so many of our children? TV and video games or other easy distractions? It's probably some combination, but I look at our school systems and litany of problems they face, the struggle just to get students to...try, and I wonder...what happened?
              Last edited by Ladybug; 04-06-2009, 06:56 AM.
              -Ladybug

              Comment


              • #8
                I also skimmed the part where he was kidnapped in southern Pakistan. What was the point of that part of the story?
                Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
                Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think this-
                  Originally posted by TulipsAndSunscreen View Post
                  I also skimmed the part where he was kidnapped in southern Pakistan. What was the point of that part of the story?
                  is explained by this-
                  He couldn't not have negotiated the domestic cultural barriers without dedicated help...from the heart, and neither funded the projects nor physically built the schools. This was far from an individual achievement, and I'm sure that Mortenson would agree if you were to ask him...over a cuppa tea.
                  The Waziristan story showed just how important his contacts in Baltistan were to his success.

                  I also thought it was interesting as part of this book's effectiveness at portraying central Asia - it showed how Pakistan isn't so much a country as a collection of little regions. (Afghanistan too.) There's an important political point there, in how we support governments to include these sort of autonomous regions. Oppressive dictatorships like the Taliban (or like Tito in Yugoslavia) can hold that chaos together, but how do you democratically govern a fractitious society? Look at what happened in Yugoslavia after Tito.

                  Yeah, so I just finished the book last night, and I actually didn't think it was overwritten (I had been warned by several people that it was). I really liked the scene setting, and I found I learned a lot about the region that I just had never even heard before. I'll try to come back later and look at some of the discussion questions more closely.
                  Julia - legislative process lover and general government nerd, married to a PICU & Medical Ethics attending, raising a toddler son and expecting a baby daughter Oct '16.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'll tackle this question:

                    Originally posted by TulipsAndSunscreen View Post
                    2. Relin gives a “warts and all” portrait of Mortenson, showing him as a hero but also as a flawed human being with some exasperating traits. Talk about how Relin chose to write about Mortenson’s character—his choice of details, his perspective, the way he constructs scenes. Is Mortenson someone you’d like to get to know, work with, or have as a neighbor or friend?
                    I'm not convinced the portrait Relin paints is warty at all, despite the repeated claim that it is. The only two things I saw that pointed to any real issues with Greg were:
                    1) In the forward/intro where he mentions something about almost giving up a couple times because Greg is so incredibly horrible about keeping any kind of schedule.
                    2) When he mentions that the widow of the man who gave him the seed money left the foundation.

                    ...and in the first case, it's immediately followed by (paraphrased) "oh, but he's just such an awesome guy, I couldn't give up", and in the second case, it felt glossed over, and like we're supposed to assume it was her loss to leave, or like it was some personal failing of hers to not be able to put up with him.

                    Reading between the lines, Greg sounds like a complete control freak who is at the same time completely disorganized, which...is kindof a scary combination, and most likely stems at least in part from his upbringing in a much less structured society and culture than the one I've lived in all my life.

                    There's no doubt at all that he's done amazing, impressive things, and that he most likely has some incredible personal charisma to attract such a loyal following. As a partial control freak who is *not* disorganized, I would probably end up tearing my hair out if I had to work with him, though. He might be a great neighbor or casual friend, but it doesn't sound like I'd want to *count* on him for much in the way of mundane support.

                    This is the review I wrote elsewhere, right after reading it:

                    Very interesting story; taught me a lot I didn't already know about central Asia and the people who live there, and is an impressive display of what one determined person can accomplish (a lot of help and charisma and a talent for languages doesn't hurt, of course). I completely agree with the basic premise that education is a hell of a lot better way to undermine terrorism than bombs, and the arguments for concentrating on educating girls, especially, are compelling. Impressive work, and I'm glad it's getting as much publicity and support as it is.
                    I didn't have any real problem with getting bogged down in the middle section, though I was also left thinking "um, OK..." after the kidnapping bit, and again after the later part when they got caught in the firefight. That part, at least, was clarified a little bit for me by perusing the CAI's website. There, it says that incident happened on the way *back* from the meeting, not on the way to it.
                    Sandy
                    Wife of EM Attending, Web Programmer, mom to one older lady scaredy-cat and one sweet-but-dumb younger boy kitty

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I also liked all the information about Pakistan and central Asia in general. In that regard, I don't feel it was over-written. Maybe over-described is a better way to put it. I felt that someone needed to take away Relin's jar of adjectives.

                      I thought the "warts and all part" was tricky. I agree with Sandy that it wasn't mentioned a whole lot but since the focus was more on what he accomplished in this role, it wasn't too big a deal. I can see how Jennifer (last name?, Hoerni's widow) would get frustrated by him. Not returning calls or emails for weeks at a time while in the states and being too dis-organized to hire someone to help organize would probably drive me nuts. I think what impressed me was that despite his loose organization and sometimes scattershot approach he persevered and accomplished so much.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was also impressed with how well his wife puts up with his scattershot approach. She's either a saint or totally nuts.
                        Julia - legislative process lover and general government nerd, married to a PICU & Medical Ethics attending, raising a toddler son and expecting a baby daughter Oct '16.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In reading about Mortenson personally, I wondered about his goal in writing the book and if it conflicted with his personality.

                          It seems to be that writing the book if it succeeded (which it did!) was to bring attention to the cause and build more schools, etc.

                          Except that it doesn't seem to be a very scale-able organization. It suffers (like many of these groups) from absolute founder-centric processes and practices. You can't scale to tons and tons of schools if only Greg can do this. I realize he scaled it somewhat (10 or so schools simultaneously by the end) but it was always directly overseen by Greg or one of the 4-5 people he trusted. I loved the cause but it just seems hard to scale up much more.

                          Which brings me to the question (which must be somewhere on the Internet), now what? So the book did great, I'm sure the money poured in. Now what? Do they have plans for scaling?
                          Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
                          Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was just looking at the website, wondering the same thing.
                            https://www.ikat.org/

                            So much of what they do is dependent on him and the relationships he has built in Pakistan. I was looking at his speaking engagement calendar and yeah, his wife is a saint, because when he is "home" he isn't home. But I can't imagine anyone lining up or paying to hear someone else from the organization speak. Still, were I in the shoes of Hoerni's widow, I'd be dismayed at his unwillingness to hire someone on the US side to handle the mail, inquiries, and that sort of thing. Maybe by being smaller they can be more nimble? That is a good question about what the "right" size is.

                            I wonder how the organization that Hillary started has handled this? Here is their site: http://www.himalayan-trust.org.np/. Though I think his role in it has been different (not sure of the history). There is another similar-ish organization, Nepalese Youth Opportunity Fund (www.nyof.org), started by a woman who trekked in Nepal (disclaimer: this is one is near and dear to my heart). They started out with two small houses for orphan children in Kathmandu and have expanded to several types of programs in Nepal (helping young women out of and avoiding indentured servitude, nutrition, education). I'm not sure exactly what Olga's continuing role is but she is not the ED anymore. Along the lines of what Hoenri said, I think both of these had a leg up in fund-raising over Mortenson's group because of a greater interest in Nepal and perhaps more visitors to the area (more trekking as well as hard-core climbers).
                            Last edited by cupcake; 04-07-2009, 10:48 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Actually, according to the website, they *do* now have a small staff in Montana that handles day-to-day paperwork-type stuff. It is good to see that when faced with "implode the organization" or "hire some people and let go of some control", he chose the latter.

                              The site also has scans of all their tax forms; it makes for interesting reading.
                              Sandy
                              Wife of EM Attending, Web Programmer, mom to one older lady scaredy-cat and one sweet-but-dumb younger boy kitty

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