Harry Potter Discussion- Part One

[Rapunzel]

Several thoughts on Dumbledore's death and Snape:

1) In order for the unforgivable(what're they called again?) curses to work one has to really mean it. That was hammered into us during those two last books. What if Snape didn't mean it (the Dumbledore avedra cadavara thing)? What would've been the result?

2) Since that sixth book opens with the importance of an unbreakable bond I wonder if this will come up again in the seventh book? Could Snape have made an unbreakable vow with Dumbledore as well? Would that be the reason Dumbledore ALWAYS ALWAYS trusted Snape no matter what?

3) If #2 is true, then what happens when an unforgivable curse butts heads with an unbreakable vow?

Just some thoughts....

Jennifer

[Rapunzel]

Oh, and why didn't Snape kill Harry when he had the chance (at the end of book six)? Does Voldemort still need Harry for something? Could Harry inadvertantly be a horcrux for Voldemort (ie when he killed Harry's mother he "accidentally" turned Harry into a horcrux - what if you can't kill or destroy your own horcrux)?

Or, is Snape really not as bad as we think? Could Snape have made an unbreakable vow with Dumbledore to keep Harry safe?

Just more thoughts (that are probably all completely wrong ).

Jennifer

I didn't see it as Snape getting the Death Eaters out of Hogwarts quickly - I saw it as them fleeing before everyone realized that Dumbledore was dead (by Snape's wand). It was his opportunity to leave essentially unchallenged (except being chased by Harry). The others (grown wizards) would have attacked him en masse - but b/c they thought he was on their side, they let him through.

I'm anxious for Book 7. Since I only started reading the series in August, I thought I'd cleverly avoided having to do the long wait ... who knew I'd get so into it and go through it so quickly. I'm now rereading GoF in anticipation of the movie.

I don't think Harry is the horcrux b/c Voldemort was trying to kill him - not infuse HP with a part of his soul. I do hope Dumbledore returns a la Obi Wan Kenobi ... I just loved the old dude. Plus, I'm sad that Book 7 sounds like it won't take place at Hogwarts ... I just loved the setting, the castle, etc.

[spotty_dog]

Foreshadowing?
Just playing with our minds??

When I re-read the series after reading Book 6, I found tons of that! Like...OK, so a horcrux is the result of putting a bit of one's soul into another object or maybe even a living thing. Well, in...what was it, Chamber of Secrets?...Ginny is acting weird because Tom Riddle from the diary is *putting his soul into her*. Is there one more horcrux than we've accounted for -- and is it Ginny? Ack, talk about a plot twist!

I do think Dumbledore is more fallible than we want him to be.

OK, I hope everybody likes this site as much as I do. Too cute not to share: http://www.livejournal.com/~potterpuffs

[houseelf]

I love you guys! I have nothing to add, but keep the Potter-speak up, you're intriguing me with your theories.

I *so* want to believe that Snape is good, but I just don't know. (How's that for not adding too much intellectual thought to the discussion?)

You've convinced me to go back and reread these!

Long Live Harry!

Kelly

[Auspicious]

Finally finished on the subway this morning! I'm still in denial about Dumbledore.

I'm 50/50 on whether Snape is good or evil--actually he's pretty evil, but I'm 50/50 on whether he's ultimately working to help the Order or Voldemort. I think there's definitely more of his intentions and purpose yet to be revealed. If it's just as simple as "we were led to believe he was on Dumbledore's side, but then we found out he was really for Voldemort" I think it's really weird to reveal that in the second-to-last book . . . and at the beginning of that book, no less. Seems like that would be revealed in the final book for maximum effect. Especially since it makes Dumbledore so wrong as to kind of dimish the character, I think. I think there has to be one more twist to Snape's situation, maybe some kind of secret agreement he and Dumbledore had that we don't understand yet.

On the other hand, I can see making that revelation in book 6 if book 7 is just so jam-packed full of showdown between Harry and Voldemort that she just needs Snape fighting by V's side right from the beginning. Hmmm.

I, too, am very sad at the thought that Hogwarts won't be in book 7. I think it's definitely her most enjoyable setting (although Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade are pretty good).

Also, I hope McGonagall becomes permanent headmistress. I like her.

And we never did hear the story of how Dumbledore's hand go blackened, did we? or am I forgetting it?

[spotty_dog]

I'm 50/50 on whether Snape is good or evil--actually he's pretty evil, but I'm 50/50 on whether he's ultimately working to help the Order or Voldemort.

We were re-watching the Chronicles of Riddick the other day, and at the beginning Judi Dench's voice-over claims that, "In times like these, evil must be fought by another KIND of evil." I exclaimed to Nick that Riddick isn't EVIL, he's just really BAD. We got into a discussion of semantics, but I remain convinced that there's a difference.

Snape is definitely pretty bad. But evil? I'm waffling again.

I think there has to be one more twist to Snape's situation, maybe some kind of secret agreement he and Dumbledore had that we don't understand yet.

Almost every book has had its plot twist formed on the premise of the fallible narrator. 99% of the narration is from Harry's POV, and his biases, misinterpretations of the facts, and simple ignorance are woven right into our perception of events. So I definitely have to say that BECAUSE Harry is so convinced that he knows why Dumbledore trusted Snape, I am quite sure that's NOT the reason at all! So now I'm leaning back toward, "Duh! If Dumbledore was SURE, that's good enough for us!"

And we never did hear the story of how Dumbledore's hand go blackened, did we? or am I forgetting it?

Nope. He hinted at it like 3 or 4 times, "It's a good story and I want to have plenty of time to tell it", and in the end was snuffed before he got the chance.

Bet it's a good story, can't wait to hear it in book 7. From Dumbledore's own lips? Who knows?

[Rapunzel]

Re: Dumbledore's hand turning black

I thought it had something to do with acquiring one of the horcruxes?

Something that made me think of a blackened and shriveled hand is a flame. Remember Looney what's-her-face said that her father told her Voldemort employs some sort of fire creatures. AND there's a door in the ministry that was eminating a great deal of heat if I do remember correctly (that was not opened btw). I wonder if they are connected?

Jennifer

[spotty_dog]

Yeah, his injury was definitely tied up with acquiring Marvolo's ring and destroying the associated horcrux. But he hinted so richly about it being a fabulous, long story. I wanna know the details!

okay - that's very interesting ... but I'm wondering what that guy's day job is.

[spotty_dog]

LOL. I thought about doing that kind of analysis, but realized it was a huge investment of time and energy for...what, exactly?

Very fascinating stuff he found, and pointing out about the Ginny hint? Omigosh. So cool. But some of the stuff, where he's kind of reaching, also reminds me of my high school essay on the novel Heart of Darkness. I got an A for my discussion of the metaphor inherent in the smell of rotting hippopotamus meat. You can find all the meaning you want in literature, not always the meaning the author intended.