How often is too often?

[uneditedtales]

Sorry for posting right after an upbeat "gratitude post". I just wanted to know how often is too often to fight/argue? What are the most common reasons for arguing in a relationship (med school related)? Is it lack of time spent together, or playing second fiddle to med school or both? Now for the million dollar question, what do you do stop it? I wanna fix it and change things but there seems to be a recurrent theme, anybody else run into the same kind of problem or am I just going crazy here. Any help/advice will be appreciated.

http://editedtales.blogspot.com/

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: How often is too often?

Sorry for posting right after an upbeat "gratitude post". I just wanted to know how often is too often to fight/argue? What are the most common reasons for arguing in a relationship (med school related)? Is it lack of time spent together, or playing second fiddle to med school or both? Now for the million dollar question, what do you do stop it? I wanna fix it and change things but there seems to be a recurrent theme, anybody else run into the same kind of problem or am I just going crazy here. Any help/advice will be appreciated.

http://editedtales.blogspot.com/

For whatever my thoughts are worth:

1. How often is too often? Depends, I guess. We used to squabble a lot when we were younger (not knock-down, drag-out fights). Now we are too old and have been married too long. For the most part, who cares about the small stuff. We try to fight as little as possible, because it ends up being a no-win for both, regardless of who was right. Nothing is that problematic in our relationship, so squabbling never improves anything. What we would fight about is so minor yet so ingrained that it isn't worth arguing over, because we won't change and it won't kill the relationship.

2. Most common reason for fighting? He never ever starts fights--he is just too tired (or maybe he's just so pleased with my complete perfection that he has nothing to bitch about!! ). Fights always start when I call him out on failing to do something he'd promised he'd do. I get mad because he seems at times to have little respect for my time. Fights continue not because he debates that he wasn't a total jerk for forgetting to do something; fights continue because he thinks that I am overreacting to what he's done wrong, and thus am unjustified in my degree of frustration...which, of course, always makes my frustration increase.

We do not fight about money (I do all the household finances, investing, insurance, etc. and handle all the shopping; he is very low maintenance and is just glad he doesn't have to deal with it). We do not fight about his hours (he has been this way since I've known him; I don't blame his program--and, to be honest, I admire his commitment to his work). We do not fight about the kids (he spend ever second he has free with them and is an awesome, awesome parent. I really respect his parenting. And he completely, 100% backs me up on any issue, even when he doesn't agree with how I've handled something). We do not fight about sex (we wish we had more--but who doesn't? And we aren't those "fight to have make-up sex" people).

We do not fight about our time together (I know he'd rather be with us--I mean, who really enjoys working until 10PM? He doesn't need me to make him feel sh*tty about it. Besides, fighting about it just takes away from time you do have together). We do not fight about me being second fiddle to his career. I don't think this is a correct characterization of how he prioritizes me. If needed, he would give up his career in a second for me (medical need or something like that). But I don't exaggerate wants into needs. I don't tell him I need him to be around more when that is what I merely want. But, when I do have a real, genuine need, he meets it. He's really pulled some rabbits out of magic hats, too, to get my needs met. I don't ask often, but I know he'll do whatever he can to meet a real need. And that's good enough for me.

3. How do we stop fighting? That's simple. I tell him I am done fighting and I don't want to be mad anymore. And so we don't fight anymore. It doesn't mean anything is resolved or that one person "won"--but that wasn't going to happen, anyway. It just means that I have sufficiently vented. Look, we have two small children and very limited free time. There are just other things I'd rather do than fight and cause a lot of stress.

4. Advice: You won't change your partner, fundamentally. The best you can hope for is to convey your genuine needs, and let him/her know how, specifically, they can meet them. And then let them know when they do. And then forgive a lot of the other stuff. Life is too short.

We've been together 16 years, married almost 13, if that means anything.

Re: How often is too often?

I totally run into the same problem with arguing with my DH. I get frustrated sometimes playing second fiddle to med school. Sometimes I just need to talk and DH has exams coming up so he's stressed and... sigh.. its hard when you feel like you need support but your spouse also needs support. Sometimes I feel like I get the short end of the stick because I end of supporting him through self-doubt, stress, and negativity and when I need that support, he is just not avaliable to give it to me. Sorry not very upbeat either!

[lastdefence]

Re: How often is too often?

I have definitely felt that too! Even last year there would be weeks when I was down on my hands and knees, scrubbing the floor, making all his meals and cleaning everything up too, just generally doing everything I could for him apart from writing his tests and then when I was having a stressful week I would just get the usual "you'll get it done, you always do!" ... Doesn't it ever occur to them that we might like to be on the receiving end of some of the stuff we do for them sometimes - even just a fraction of it? :P

Tonight I had to walk and catch a bus home from the pool 'cause he fell asleep (it was like -20)...got in the door and everything is a mess, and of course he has a friend coming to visit so I'm sure it's going to be all up to me tomorrow to fix the place up...sigh.. kind of discouraging but then again, it's hardly fair for me to wake up him and say hey you, go clean up after yourself. We are just going to have to get better at making use of our time. Still, as good as my intentions are and as easy as I want to make his life for him, I just get so discouraged at doing all the housework. I can tell I am going to struggle with this because I am pretty big on equality.

Anyway, enough of being frustrated, time for bed! I'm sure it will seem better tomorrow.

[RELLA]

Re: How often is too often?

I totally run into the same problem with arguing with my DH. I get frustrated sometimes playing second fiddle to med school. Sometimes I just need to talk and DH has exams coming up so he's stressed and... sigh.. its hard when you feel like you need support but your spouse also needs support. Sometimes I feel like I get the short end of the stick because I end of supporting him through self-doubt, stress, and negativity and when I need that support, he is just not avaliable to give it to me. Sorry not very upbeat either!

I know exactly what you mean. Whenever I want to talk about something that is bothering me it just seems trivial to bring it up because yes- he has studied all day and is tired, or we only have a short time to talk on the phone because it's expensive. I don't know...I feel that a lot of times I get the short end of the stick in that regard as well.

Re: How often is too often?

I have definitely felt that too! Even last year there would be weeks when I was down on my hands and knees, scrubbing the floor, making all his meals and cleaning everything up too, just generally doing everything I could for him apart from writing his tests and then when I was having a stressful week I would just get the usual "you'll get it done, you always do!" ... Doesn't it ever occur to them that we might like to be on the receiving end of some of the stuff we do for them sometimes - even just a fraction of it? :P

Tonight I had to walk and catch a bus home from the pool 'cause he fell asleep (it was like -20)...got in the door and everything is a mess, and of course he has a friend coming to visit so I'm sure it's going to be all up to me tomorrow to fix the place up...sigh.. kind of discouraging but then again, it's hardly fair for me to wake up him and say hey you, go clean up after yourself. We are just going to have to get better at making use of our time. Still, as good as my intentions are and as easy as I want to make his life for him, I just get so discouraged at doing all the housework. I can tell I am going to struggle with this because I am pretty big on equality.

Anyway, enough of being frustrated, time for bed! I'm sure it will seem better tomorrow.

I totally run into the same problem with arguing with my DH. I get frustrated sometimes playing second fiddle to med school. Sometimes I just need to talk and DH has exams coming up so he's stressed and... sigh.. its hard when you feel like you need support but your spouse also needs support. Sometimes I feel like I get the short end of the stick because I end of supporting him through self-doubt, stress, and negativity and when I need that support, he is just not avaliable to give it to me. Sorry not very upbeat either!

I know exactly what you mean. Whenever I want to talk about something that is bothering me it just seems trivial to bring it up because yes- he has studied all day and is tired, or we only have a short time to talk on the phone because it's expensive. I don't know...I feel that a lot of times I get the short end of the stick in that regard as well.

I feel your pain ladies, I feel your pain. *hugs*.
I understand about the phone. My DH is far away so phone time is key and sometimes, I don't really get that and its the only way I can connect with him at the moment. Other times he makes up for it, which is really good.
I also get the "you'll always get it done" type of attitude. I have been lately just telling him that "no, I can't do it on my own" and I need your help. It's been a good approach, but sometimes he falls back on "you can do it" without helping me. I have pretty good intentions on making our lives better as well, and also I have this egalitarian idea in my head, and I've found out that it doesn't quite work that way, and I know it wont be that way once we start living together. Med school life is tough on relationships! Communication is key though, (from what I have learned thus far) and I think having a belief that its all worth it at the end.

[moonlight]

Re: How often is too often?

I feel your pain ladies, I feel your pain. *hugs*.
I understand about the phone. My DH is far away so phone time is key and sometimes, I don't really get that and its the only way I can connect with him at the moment. Other times he makes up for it, which is really good.
I also get the "you'll always get it done" type of attitude. I have been lately just telling him that "no, I can't do it on my own" and I need your help. It's been a good approach, but sometimes he falls back on "you can do it" without helping me. I have pretty good intentions on making our lives better as well, and also I have this egalitarian idea in my head, and I've found out that it doesn't quite work that way, and I know it wont be that way once we start living together. Med school life is tough on relationships! Communication is key though, (from what I have learned thus far) and I think having a belief that its all worth it at the end.[/quote]

Hi! I didn't really get a chance to say hello when you first started posting. I'm a wife to Caribbean med school MS4. I just wanted to say *HUGS*, and that you are almost done with (IMO) the hardest part of Caribbean med school- the island life. No matter if you are on the island or off, those first two years are brutal on a relationship. I know of several relationships that didn't make it those two years. If you and your DH can stay strong, and love each other through it, then the relationship will become very solid. Life will always throw curve balls ( for example, clinicals for FMGs can be difficult), but you will get the hang of it. Our Caribbean FMG spouses are limited in number around here. Please stick around; these ladies are the best when it comes to support and understanding!!

[lastdefence]

Re: How often is too often?

I also get the "you'll always get it done" type of attitude. I have been lately just telling him that "no, I can't do it on my own" and I need your help. It's been a good approach, but sometimes he falls back on "you can do it" without helping me. I have pretty good intentions on making our lives better as well, and also I have this egalitarian idea in my head, and I've found out that it doesn't quite work that way, and I know it wont be that way once we start living together. Med school life is tough on relationships! Communication is key though, (from what I have learned thus far) and I think having a belief that its all worth it at the end.

Haha yes, the "you can do it" + no help is the worst! I actually ended up being really frustrated the next night but he and his friends were all drinking so I didn't want to have the discussion then. Interestingly, my man always insists on talking right away even if I would prefer to put it off. He was in such a good drunk mood that it was pretty funny. I had a lot of sympathy for him, he was telling me that med school and home life are two lives and that somehow he has to and is going to make both of them work. He also told me that he gets criticized every day at work with no one stopping to think about his feelings, and that he can take it. He was encouraging me to be tougher on him, haha. I don't think I will ever really understand what it is like to be one of them, because I certainly wouldn't have that attitude. But I'm glad he does. When I got home from work the next day he had taken out all the garbage so it's good to know he's not all talk! So yes, I agree with you! Communication and belief! Something that is hard to fall back on when you're frustrated but so important.

Re: How often is too often?

Hi! I didn't really get a chance to say hello when you first started posting. I'm a wife to Caribbean med school MS4. I just wanted to say *HUGS*, and that you are almost done with (IMO) the hardest part of Caribbean med school- the island life. No matter if you are on the island or off, those first two years are brutal on a relationship. I know of several relationships that didn't make it those two years. If you and your DH can stay strong, and love each other through it, then the relationship will become very solid. Life will always throw curve balls ( for example, clinicals for FMGs can be difficult), but you will get the hang of it. Our Caribbean FMG spouses are limited in number around here. Please stick around; these ladies are the best when it comes to support and understanding!!

Hey its nice to meet you Moonlight .
Its good to hear that other people also think that the first two years are hard. I AGREE that so far, its been the hardest. Distance, stress, monetary and time constraints really can wreck havoc on a relationship. I thought something was wrong with us and then when I came here, I realized I'm not the only one. My DH and I almost didn't make it through a very weak point in our relationship at the end of his first year... I can attest to curve balls alright!
That is what I have learned though, that if we communicate well and love each other we can make it. We are making it through. And having a positive attitude. I keep repeating to myself "Its all worth it, its all worth it."

Re: How often is too often?

I totally run into the same problem with arguing with my DH. I get frustrated sometimes playing second fiddle to med school. Sometimes I just need to talk and DH has exams coming up so he's stressed and... sigh.. its hard when you feel like you need support but your spouse also needs support. Sometimes I feel like I get the short end of the stick because I end of supporting him through self-doubt, stress, and negativity and when I need that support, he is just not avaliable to give it to me. Sorry not very upbeat either!

I know exactly what you mean. Whenever I want to talk about something that is bothering me it just seems trivial to bring it up because yes- he has studied all day and is tired, or we only have a short time to talk on the phone because it's expensive. I don't know...I feel that a lot of times I get the short end of the stick in that regard as well.

I forgot to add... did you guys think about getting the Vonage phone service? Its about $25 a month, and its a local US number he can take with him on the island and connect via his internet connection. I know that its saved us alot of money and our relationship,(to be honest) so that we can talk as long as we want without a very expensive phone bill.

http://www.vonage.com/index.php?ic=1

What my DH did was take a land line phone and took it with him to the island so that I can call him and he can call me and it would be like calling locally.

Re: How often is too often?

Haha yes, the "you can do it" + no help is the worst! I actually ended up being really frustrated the next night but he and his friends were all drinking so I didn't want to have the discussion then. Interestingly, my man always insists on talking right away even if I would prefer to put it off. He was in such a good drunk mood that it was pretty funny. I had a lot of sympathy for him, he was telling me that med school and home life are two lives and that somehow he has to and is going to make both of them work. He also told me that he gets criticized every day at work with no one stopping to think about his feelings, and that he can take it. He was encouraging me to be tougher on him, haha. I don't think I will ever really understand what it is like to be one of them, because I certainly wouldn't have that attitude. But I'm glad he does. When I got home from work the next day he had taken out all the garbage so it's good to know he's not all talk! So yes, I agree with you! Communication and belief! Something that is hard to fall back on when you're frustrated but so important.[/quote]

That is awesome he talked to you about it!
And I agree, its hard to understand them. Talking effectively is the best way.

Re: How often is too often?

Hey its nice to meet you Moonlight .
Its good to hear that other people also think that the first two years are hard. I AGREE that so far, its been the hardest. Distance, stress, monetary and time constraints really can wreck havoc on a relationship. I thought something was wrong with us and then when I came here, I realized I'm not the only one. My DH and I almost didn't make it through a very weak point in our relationship at the end of his first year... I can attest to curve balls alright!
That is what I have learned though, that if we communicate well and love each other we can make it. We are making it through. And having a positive attitude. I keep repeating to myself "Its all worth it, its all worth it."

I can't even begin to say what a relief this post is. My husband was a pre med major and ended up not even applying for med school, but went to PA school because we ( I was pregnant) thought it would be less time consuming. I haven't seen him since the fall of '07 and no one seems to understand the stress it has caused our family. Currently he's on rotations and is following the OB that delivered our son, and I've had a behind the scenes look at how our OB spends nearly ever minute of his life away from his family because of work. DH has assured me that he will not be gone this much when he's out of school. But I'm an RN and how many times is the PA or NP on call for the doc or making rounds?? DH says it is possible to get a PA job that is only 9-5, but I haven't seen one yet. Atleast not with the ones I work with.
I don't know how doctor's wives do it. DH is never around, even if he were he'd just be studying. He's missing out on our son growing up and our marriage is in pieces. We were together 6 years before all of this. I just don't know how a marriage can survive it? DH's program is 3 years and he's half way through. Thank you for letting me vent!!!