NEWBIE here with a FEW questions!

Hi All!

For the past 4 months or so, I have been dating a wonderful man who is finishing up his last months in medical school. He has all of the qualities I look for in a significant other, so I want to do everything I can to make things work, but I truly have no idea what to expect.

Off hand, I was wondering:
-What are the abbreviations? I figured out SAHM.
-Can you please describe "hell on earth?
-Did your significant other change as an individual? If so, how?
-"If I only knew back then what I know now, then ________."
-Any other thoughts you would like to share?

so much!

I look forward to learning lots from everyone.

Here's more about the situation:
-He wants to go into general surgery, then plastics.
-I have no idea what will happen if he matches far away, I guess we will have to wait and see, however I still have 2 years of graduate school, so it may be a long distance relationship for a while.

[SuzySunshine]

Can you tell us a little more about the situation? What residency is he going into? Will you be moving with him assuming he matches far away? Will you be/are you near family/friends?

A lot of those things make a big difference IMO (in my opinion).

Good, I'd like volumes! I've been looking all over, but haven't seen anything brutally honest, and I'd like to know as much as I can going into this relationship.

I like you already.

Hi & Welcome -

Most of the "brutally honest" is in the more private areas, which you'll gain access to as you hang around the site for awhile. Medicne is a small world you know.

As far as brief answers to the questions you posted:

Yes - they change. Some more than others. Surgery is especially tough on folks (my husband did his intern year in surgery, then changed specialties - thankfully). The hours are very hard - they're *supposed* to be better now, but compliance to the 80 hour work week varies by program. The environment is harsh -- lots of people who were treated like crap during their training, and now pass it downhill. It (not just surgery) is all-consuming. LD (long-distance) can work, but the independent streak you mentioned is truly a necessity. Many of us have spent years attending family funcitons, office parties, etc. by ourselves, or with children in tow.

As for abbreviations -- we've got a couple of old posts where folks have asked the same question. You can search for this as well as older posts on relationships / surgical residencies in general. A few off the top of my head:

DH/DW: dear/damn husband / wife
PGY1,2,3: post-graduate year
SO: signifcant other
PD: program director

I'm drawing a blank ...

Is it worth it in the end? You'll get responses varying from "yes" to "damn well better be" to "no way". I'm still deciding -- and we're almost 2 years out. [/code][/quote]

[SuzySunshine]

Here's more about the situation:
-He wants to go into general surgery, then plastics.
-I have no idea what will happen if he matches far away, I guess we will have to wait and see, however I still have 2 years of graduate school, so it may be a long distance relationship for a while.
-I will not be moving in with him unless we get married, which won't be for a long time!
-I am away at school, but come home every weekend. I'm around friends and family and definitely believe that is essential to have in my life.

Surgery residencies are hard - most places intern year is hell. That can actually be a good thing if you're doing the long distance thing. Fellowships (plastics) are an additional hell, or can be, depending on the fellowship. There are others here that can speak to that better than I.

My DH and I did the long distance thing during the first year of medical school, to be honest we probably could have done the long distance thing during second year of residency - that was how much I saw him (in his program 2nd year is worse then intern year). DH and I also didn't live together until we were married and were together five years before we got married, there are pros and cons to that situation as well in the medical life. If you're living together at least you can say hi before they pass out from exhaustion at the end of the day, if you're not you may see them less or you may get to enjoy your time with them more b/c they have to make an effort to see you.

Being away from family can be very tough, especially if you're used to seeing them every weekend. Medicine can have a life of its own and a lot of times it dictates where you can and can't live. A lot of times that doesn't involve being around family.

I'm guessing he's matching in a few week like many of the other poor souls on this board. Until he finds out where he will be spending the next 5-7 years you should probably hold off on making any major decisions.

Welcome & Good Luck!

[Vanquisher]

Good, I'd like volumes! I've been looking all over, but haven't seen anything brutally honest, and I'd like to know as much as I can going into this relationship.

Define brutally honest. Do you want me to make you cry?

:>

Definitely stick around for more candid answers and insight after he matches, and you can see the dark and dirty horror stories in the private forums.

Hi there! First off, let me tell you that I am a wife of a PGY-3 General Surgery Resident. He is a resident at one of the biggest county hospitals in the country. I hope that in some way, my answers help you. A lot of people already mentioned some very true things about surgery residencies... and let me give you a "scenario" of my life.

-The 80 hour work week is basically guaranteed. You can count on him working at least that much per week.
-The call shifts are HORRIBLE. He does 8 per month on average, which range from 24-30 hours each call shift. He takes in-house call, which most residencies require of their residents, and he can't leave the hospital.
-90% of the time, he gets less than 2 hours of sleep on any given call shift.
-He frequently complains of a lack of "help", meaning not enough residents to cover the work, I guess
-He doesn't have much time to read because when at the hospital, he's always operating, doing trauma, or in clinic. And when he's at home, he would rather actually do something not medical, like sleep or watch tv.


I think if you want to know more in depth, you can private message me. I would love to help you out in any way that I can.

:P

Welcome I'm married to a fourth year med student, so I have not been through residency personally. I will say though that we've been married for 8 years, and it's always been hard work around here. We've had two jobs several times in undergrad, had kids and worked hard to make $$, went through med school with 4 years of marriage under our belt, had another child in med school, and truly I think because of what we were going through together in our past has helped us get ready for the future with a decent understanding that it's still hard work. We've had our times together without the stress of school and kids, that helped in the midst of all this. It will be much more challenging for you to go into residency without much of a relationship together yet, but totally doable! You need to be a strong person, not upset to be alone a lot (especially if he is another town), and willing to see your boyfriend in his worst stress - and realizing that's how it's gonna be for a while - and still give him a break because of it.

Our good friend is a 5th year (chief) surgical resident. He went into residency totally sold on plastics. He has worked his BUTT off to get into a program, finally this next year. He has been on Q4 (on call every fourth night) for 5 years, and this year his last, he told me it was not any easier than the previous year. He loves surgery, but to get into plastics has used a lot of his extra time working on research to get him that extra umph he needed to get into a plastics program (which is VERY VERY competitive). Just know if your SO goes this route it's a lot of stress and crap load of hard work - and 8 years from med school before it's all over.

That said if you want to make this work and see him as a possible mate, then go for it and just deal with the challenges as they come. It's much easier than see it all in a big heap of :badday: for 8 years, because really you can make the best of it, and come out alive

-The 80 hour work week is basically guaranteed. You can count on him working at least that much per week.

Just to be clear, the guarantee is at LEAST. It's supposed to be max ... but ....

[alison]

Welcome!

My husband is at around 60 hours/week right now.

For both of us, internship year has been by far the roughest. It probably doesn't have to be, but by nature, I'm not a very supportive person.

Whatever you decide, you can do it!!!

[Flynn]

Howdy!

Just wanted to say hi and welcome.

We JUST finished a 9 year surgical training marathon.
Yes it can be done. I'm living proof.

We didn't get through intact however without being tested TO THE MAX.

Just when you think you've taken care of A-F on the crap residency can throw at you, the rules change and you have to deal with G-Z.

It's hard (almost impossible?) to have a relationship with someone you rarely see.

I agree with Jesher Jenn... EXPECT 80 hours a week or more during residency. Not all programs follow the rules.

I'll stop now.

Interesting...

Hi!

I thought your question(s) were interesting and I thought the replies have been very interesting too! My DH and I met as undergrad long before he wanted to try out the medicine thing (he originally wanted to do wildlife bio...quite a change if you ask me). But he got into med school on his second time around, and I decided I loved him to pieces and we moved to med school together. (BTW..We lived together for 7 years prior to getting married this past summer, finally!!)

Anyhow, the part of your post that I found interesting was "is it worth it?". Others have gone through (or are going through) residency with their others, which I still have to look forward to...but honestly I have not found the medical school to be much fun for either of us. I too, had to work hard to make enough money for us to get by on, and in the long run have to give up being near family, friends, AND getting rid of my career just to get us through. And through all that, dealing with an extremely stressed out miserable guy who was about 1 day away from dropping out before his 3rd year. I know what my DH has gone through so far has changed him. I wouldn't say it has changed him bad, but I know I have had to really learn to lighten up and let bad moods roll. The worst thing I have noticed is that he sometimes forgets his life isn't the only thing involved, and that he sometimes becomes self centered. I simply remind him and things get better.

What I am trying to say is that being with someone in this field will mean having to be flexible. Perhaps I can only speak for myself here...but I know that he is SO greatful for my support. He has said a thousand times that whenever he gets through all this, he will make it up to me He already has given up his dream of doing neurosurgery for me and has chosen radiology instead. (MATCH DAY 13 DAYS AND COUNTING!!!!)

The only advice I can give you as a person getting only THIS far, is be flexible. Expect major moodiness and keep in mind that stress does horrible things to people. And know that he loves you and that this is tough but not every day will be bad. Enjoy the moments you have together, and try to stay involved in his life (despite the fact that you may not have any idea what he is talking about) and hopefully he will be a good person and think of you too when making all the major decisions you will have to make.

GOOD LUCK!!!

And thanks to everyone for letting us who are still early on in the training process know that it can be done.

Re: Interesting...

He has said a thousand times that whenever he gets through all this, he will make it up to me He already has given up his dream of doing neurosurgery for me and has chosen radiology instead. (MATCH DAY 13 DAYS AND COUNTING!!!!)

Congratulations on reaching a palatable compromise. Keep us posted on how the match turns out for you!

[Deebs]

I am married to a third year EM (Emergency Medicine) resident who was a firefighter previous. We've been together through undergrad, grad school, a cross country relationship, med school and now residency (he'll be done at the end of June, and I don't know how spouses survive more than three years of residency).

Most of our friends are in medicine, which has really been our choice. I don't know anyone who has gone into medical school and come out of residency the same person. People who haven't been through that experience think they understand it, but they really can't (which is why I'm so glad I found this forum). That having been said, I don't think my husband and I would change a thing. He misses the fireservice terribly, but comes home from every shift at the hospital saying he has the greatest job in the world. Even when he loses patients, or has crazy days, or does nothing right all day, he thinks he has the greatest job in the world.

For as much as my husband has been changed by this experience, I have been changed as well. Medical people (and I think their families - I work in healthcare too, so someone else correct me if I'm wrong), look at the world differently than other people. My husband and I talk about work all the time - it is our life. We actually make each other stop to make sure we get a break from it, but it's hard not to talk about something that your pour so much of your life into.

Long distance is not necessarily a bad thing, either. You have to be independent to be married to a physician. When I went into labor with my daughter, my husband went to the hospital and worked his shift. He was definitely there when my daughter was born, but I labored at home by myself for about 8 hours. His paternity leave was two days. That's all he gets in his program. But, I had friends and family come in to help me, and I knew that this is all part of the deal.

At the end of the day, my husband comes home so happy and in love with what he does at work that it makes him a better partner. And, while I was independent before, I have learned that I am stronger and more independent than I ever thought I was. And, I have friends that I can call and cry to when no one else understands what it is like to be married to a resident who knows no holidays, weekends, or dinnertimes.

I hope this post doesn't sound too negative. I just know that when we started this process I had a couple of people tell me how great it would be to be married to a doctor and have all that money (I'm not sure about that part either, but that's a whole other topic), and in the end, those types of expectations can make this lifestyle much more difficult.
-Deb