Hello! Pros vs. Cons

[JMill]

Hi everyone!

I have been lurking a bit over the past couple of months and officially joined yesterday. My husband of one month should find out by Oct. 1st if he's gotten into med school. I'm nervous about the implications of it anyway but, I have to say, your board doesn't make me feel very hopeful. DH and I had planned on starting our family next year but now I'm nervous. I have been expecting, and planning for, the huge change in our financial life (he currently has a successful career as a scientist and I am a teacher) when he goes back to school but it also seems like I can expect to see very little of him and will have to practically raise our children on my own. Also, it sounds like it will be many years before we find any financial relief. So my question is...what are the "pros" of DH going to med school at all?

(Sorry to introduce myself in such a downer style! I promise I'm usually very upbeat! )

[rainbabies]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

welcome.

the only pro i can think of is:

(on most days) dh LOVES what he does. other than that, i've got nothing.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

OK, this is speaking from the light at the end of the tunnel after years of grueling school and training.

The Pros:

1) DH loves his job. I don't think many people in this world get to do what they love every single working day. And, dh does. Lucky him!

2) Job security! Until people stop getting sick, injured, or dying we're going to have an income.

3) With many specialties the pay at the end of training is quite nice and does compensate for the years of financial harship.

4) We've been through thick and thin. We've seen each other at our best (often when it's worst) and at our worst (sometimes when it's best!). Our marriage has been through the trial by fire - and we're still here to tell about it!


I know that this site can seem like a downer sometimes - and sometimes it seems downright scary. But, that's because we come here largely to get through the tough times. I can say that it's not ALL tough times. And, I recommend that you try to make your life not about his medical training but, rather, that his medical training just be one facet of your relationship and your own life.

[migirl]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

Sorry we've scared you.

I'd agree with Rapunzel. DH loves what he does (most days), and it's nice to know that he has that job security.

The medical training lifestyle can definitely be difficult on spouses and families, but it's doable. Good luck to you both!

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

If he hadn't gone to medical school, he would have spent his whole life wondering what could have been. Once he became interested in medicine, there really was no other dream that compared. Who wants to live life full of regret and wishing you'd pursued what you'd really desired?

I don't think we look at it as "pros and cons." It just is. I can't imagine my husband any other way.

[DCJenn]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

While there are days that make him nuts, the bottom line is that like the others, my husband loves what he does.

The cons? The cons are that medical training sucks. The level of suckitude depends on a lot of variables.

We're (temporarily) done with training and it's nice. He's home for dinner most days, he isn't waking up at the asscrack to go in. He's exercising regularly, he's happy.

Now, ask me again when he goes and does this looming epilepsy fellowship three hours away from here? I can guarantee I will be smack dab right back in my "training sucks" survival mode.

You have to want to be a physician to do this. and as a physician's spouse, you have to be ready to hang on to the roller coaster.

Jenn

[houseelf]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

Welcome,

You have to understand that this website is a support site so by its very nature, it attracts people who feel like they need some support in coping with what they are enduring. I am also going to go out on a limb and state that our humble site probably has a disporportionate amount of individuals who haven't taken the easiest paths that medicine offers. (Not that any path in medicine is free from some difficult choices and some trade offs, but we have some real hard core situations here). Some of our members have some less than optimum life circumstances that make the medical life painful: international moves, careers that aren't portable, military deployments, lots of kids with no families nearby, infertility, extended family drama, meager financial resources, health issues, child custody issues, etcetera. While the medical life can and will compound stress, often it is not the sole and exclusive root source of stress.

I'm not going to lie, medicine can be big and overwhelming when you get down to the hard business of living it. The two of you need to sit down, often, and constantly talk about what you *really* want out of life and what choices are going to get there. Believe me when I say, the choices will NOT be clear cut, but you must keep talking.

I wish you every bit of luck on your journey.

Kelly

[Vanquisher]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

You have no idea how long it took me to write something THIS positive!

Which is exactly why I haven't posted anything. I have nothing positive to say about residency. Nothing. DH loves what he does, but hates his job. That's not much of a positive.

If he'd be happy doing anything else, I would recommend it. Be careful of the specialty choice, and hold on to your hats and glasses, because this is the wildest ride in the wilderness.

Kelly said it better than I could have...

You have to understand that this website is a support site so by its very nature, it attracts people who feel like they need some support in coping with what they are enduring. I am also going to go out on a limb and state that our humble site probably has a disporportionate amount of individuals who haven't taken the easiest paths that medicine offers. (Not that any path in medicine is free from some difficult choices and some trade offs, but we have some real hard core situations here). Some of our members have some less than optimum life circumstances that make the medical life painful: international moves, careers that aren't portable, military deployments, lots of kids with no families nearby, infertility, extended family drama, meager financial resources, health issues, child custody issues, etcetera. While the medical life can and will compound stress, often it is not the sole and exclusive root source of stress.

You must also understand that there are some of us (who, moi?) who are consistent bitchers, whiners, and complainers. :badday:

[Vanquisher]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

I would say have the kids in med school while you were planning to anyway, can afford it, and especially if you have family/friends around.

I don't know whether to champion this or adamandtly disagree with it. I had my son while we were in college. He is 10 now. While it was easier for us when he was a baby for time purposes, it has been infinitely harder on him in residency because he KNOWS his dad is AWOL. He knows his dad isn't the little league coach. He knows his dad doesn't play catch with him every weekend. He knows that Dad is never here. He knows exquisitely, entirely, too much about very adult and difficult concepts that accompany this life. Further, we will have to move him, and it will be difficult for him to put down roots. In this way, I am so glad I have an older boy as opposed to girl. I cannot imagine having to move an 11-year-old girl next summer. Oy!

So, whilst the timing of having an infant might be easier in medical school, having an older child in residency comes with its own set of issues that are so hard to articulate, but they can cut you to ribbons.

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

We're a month and a half out of residency and into fellowship (SO much easier), so I'm feeling obnoxiously positive at the moment. I would ditto everything that everyone else has written, though.

Some of our members have some less than optimum life circumstances that make the medical life painful... While the medical life can and will compound stress, often it is not the sole and exclusive root source of stress.

What kicked us in the butt during residency were the "extra" stressors that we didn't foresee (years of infertility tests & treatments, plus feeling stuck in jobs I didn't like with no resources for me to go back to school).

Cons:
moving several times
sleep deprivation (does bad things to people)
not being able to count on DH to be there for family gatherings, holidays, or even to be on the other side of the bed at night
money stress (mostly in med school)

Pros:
med school isn't too bad, schedule-wise
you can choose your specialty (go with non-surgical if you want to cut stress)
DH LOVES what he does
there can be a decent financial payoff at the end

I'd have kids in med school, if I were you. Let your DH enjoy them and bond with them during those four early years. I don't know about other people, but having kids actually decreased our stress during the last year+ of residency because they brought so much joy into our lives. That may not be true for everyone, though. I raised them that year mostly by myself, but I was used to doing things myself by then.

One thing we learned, unfortunately toward the end, was to stand back and look objectively at our negative emotions. DH learned that when he wanted to fly off the handle, it might not really be any specific issue; he might just need to go to bed. I learned that DH was still the person I had married, but he was affected by factors that would make anybody irritable. It's just such a LONG process that it's hard to keep reminding yourself of that.

I will say that the last year of residency was easier, and fellowship has seemed like a vacation in comparison. We have fallen into a routine, and we're really doing pretty well. Was residency worth it? I forget quickly and would be tempted to say yes. The fact is, it doesn't matter. Like Abigail said, it is what it is. DH & I were together before he decided to do this, but it was always something he had imagined, and I couldn't see him happy doing anything else. Once you take that deep breath and jump in, the current pulls you along, until one day you find yourself on the other side (or, apparently getting addicted and opting to do three more years of training ).

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

As you can see there is never an easy answer to any question on this site. A lot of your life will depend on a few factors, distance from family, specialty choice, and residency program being the most important IMO.

DH and I have been together since undergrad, married in medical school and just had our first little one in 4th year of residency. He has chosen a very difficult, time consuming, not family friendly specialty in neurosurgery. However we are at a family friendly program so while traditionally its the worse it hasn't been that bad. Kids in medical school would have been great in that DH would have gotten to spend more time with them when they were infants (if they were born after 1st year) but like Heidi says I think I'd rather have him around less now when they won't remember. She'll just start to remember about the time he enters fellowship so hopefully we'll dodge most of that bullet.

My husband LOVES what he does and can't imagine doing anything else with his life. That is why he's chosen it and we've made the sacrifices that we've made. However he's been on some easier time rotations lately and has realized that medicine is part of his life, not his whole life.

So I'm rambling, I guess my opinion is that if you both go into it with open eyes and make decisions together you can do anything. Good luck!

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

If my husband had an actual job prior to starting med school, or were my husband at the time, I would have strongly discouraged it. I'm always baffled by medicine as a "heck, we'll start over" or "I'm not really happy doing this, so I'll embark on an 8 to 15 year path and see if I'm happy doing that" kind of career choice. It's not as though it's just an additional degree, or 2-3 years of school. It chews up and spits out the young of this world - and just as I'm finding that pregnancy is harder when you're older, I can only imagine that the physical stressors of residency/training only get harder as you age as well.

And MY husband DID do one of the "easier" specialties (after a hellish general surgery intern year pre-80 hour work week).

Yes it can be done. Yes, they usually end up loving their job in a way that many others can't. But I'm a firm believer that a job is a means to finance your life, and not life itself.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

Hi and welcome!

We are on the earlier end of the journey. Max just started his 2nd year of med school. We've already had our own (relatively minor) challenges of long distance relationships, my 80+ work weeks, trying to find myself a job in his city, and now committing to commuting 2 weeks/month working and living away from him.

I don't need to repeat what other people said about him loving what he does (and he's only studying!) but i also know that he's around really smart people, engaged and challenged intellectually, and living his dream.

I know this site seems really scary but what if I put it in another perspective: this site opens your eyes, gives you realistic expectations, and offers you support when things never go as planned. There are definitely issues and mistakes we've already headed off just because I've asked for or read about advice on this board and addressed it with Max before it becomes an issue. I know some of what to expect so I'm not surprised or disappointed when he disappears for a couple of days, doesn't call, or acts like a big butthead. Lots of careers would be easier but I'm commited to him, I love the heck out of him, and I like knowing what to expect.

Anyway, just my two cents, I guess I just think it's how you look at things.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

Was YH a judge before? Or is this a science/medicine term I don't know?

Not a judge! He's a scientist and when they do scientific research, it's referred to as bench work. He worked in a lab playing with cells, and has managed some impressive patterns of permanent hair loss on his hands due to years of pulling rubber gloves on and off!

For academic med, he wants to run a research lab and treat pts as well. So, you know, go through 14 years of training and then do two jobs for about 70% of the salary of what he could get doing one job in private practice.

Gotcha. With a former judge for a dad and working at a law firm, bench to me = judge.

I thought the same thing! I thought, "Now, I've know a lot of the reverse: MDs who've gone back to get their JDs, but it is usually only after they get sued and they're angry. They go for the wrong reasons. Most commonly, they are a bunch of arrogant SOBs who show up in law school pissed off and thinking they are smarter than everyone else because they are doctors...and they invariably turn out to be mediocre law students. But I've never heard of a JUDGE going to medical school...judges are so level-headed...who would give up the prestige and challenge of the robe for...studentdom??"

[Flynn]

Re: Hello! Pros vs. Cons

If he'd be happy doing anything else, I would recommend it.

Be careful of the specialty choice, and hold on to your hats and glasses, because this is the wildest ride in the wilderness.

Kelly said it better than I could have...

You have to understand that this website is a support site so by its very nature, it attracts people who feel like they need some support in coping with what they are enduring. I am also going to go out on a limb and state that our humble site probably has a disporportionate amount of individuals who haven't taken the easiest paths that medicine offers. (Not that any path in medicine is free from some difficult choices and some trade offs, but we have some real hard core situations here). Some of our members have some less than optimum life circumstances that make the medical life painful: international moves, careers that aren't portable, military deployments, lots of kids with no families nearby, infertility, extended family drama, meager financial resources, health issues, child custody issues, etcetera. While the medical life can and will compound stress, often it is not the sole and exclusive root source of stress.

I agree with the above. I add only that you really don't know what you are getting into with this life until you start. Yes you know it's hard and yes certain specialities are more difficult -- but that's all analysis. Live the life for 3-9 years and it "feels" very different to be "supporting your husband in his dream."

DH did nine years of training post medical school. Now he's a heart surgeon and LOVES it -- he thinks heart surgery is NIRVANA. The road to get him there was EXTREMELY bumpy so honestly I'm GLAD he loves his job. I need to add we've been done with training for two years now so I've detoxed from the life a bit (a bit?).

We didn't meet until med school so children then wasn't an option. I had things to do and we didn't marry until residency. We had our first child when DH was knee deep in residency. It was very challenging to have young children with no support from my husband. He was NEVER home. The flip side is my kids don't remember him gone all the time -- nor did we have to take them out of school for medical moves. I'm very thankful for this.

I don't think my husband truly knew how his choices to do medicine effected things until our kids would rather have me or my parents kiss a skinned knee and NOT him. They didn't know him plain and simple. He was like a favorite uncle who visited from time to time. That has all changed now post training I'm happy and relieved to say.

I personally am glad we waited to have kids for these reasons. I was bitter enough during training. Had my husband's choices hurt my kids more than they already did...I would have been MORE bitter.


If he HAS to be a doc at all costs -- talk specialities now.
Our life is very good now post training but the road to get here was more difficult than I could ever imagine.