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**mommax3** · 05-29-2003, 11:58 PM

Welcome, Jen -- (you are one of about 16 people here with that name)

It is nice to "meet" you! I am Sally, SAHM to 3 boys, aged 8, 5, and 20 months. My husband is an OB/GYN in the Air Force, and we live in north Texas. We have been married for almost 13 years, so I have been through the whole medical education journey with him. He has been finished with residency for almost two years.

We are both originally from Indiana and hope to head back there when my husband finishes his Air Force committment in two more years.

I look forward to getting to know you better in the different forums. You are the fourth person I know of here who has twins! And by the way, I remember fourth year of med school being very nice.

Sally

Join Date: Nov 2024 · 05-30-2003, 06:34 AM

Welcome to the site!

I am Matt, a SAHD to two boys, 3y and 5wks. My wife is a Peds resident in Kansas City at the Children's Hospital here. From my point of view, the 4th year may have some extra free time, but you will have to buckle down for the intern year coming up, no matter what direction he decides to go!

It can be done, and it will seem like a never ending journey at times, but you have found a great place with a common interest in all you do/have done!! This a wonderful place to "meet" and just let off steam, or to laugh out loud at your computer screen! Welcome again and we all look forward to hearing more from you.

Join Date: Nov 2024 · 05-30-2003, 08:46 AM

Glad you found us!
My name is Nellie, we have an almost three year old daughter, and my husband will be starting a dermatology residency in July '04. I work from home as doing consulting work. My husband started in internal medicine, completed the intern year, during the intern year decided he wanted to do derm, and is now doing a research fellowship in dermatology. The fellowship has been very cush so switching back to residency mode (in a different city) will be a change but it shouldn't be too bad.

We have very fond memories of the fourth year around here! My husband was able to work his schedule to take 3 months off to spend with our newborn daughter. It is a nice breather before the insanity of internship.

Join Date: Nov 2024 · 05-30-2003, 11:57 AM

Jen - Welcome

I am Robin, the mom of 4 boys ranging from 11 to 3 and the wife of a future anesthesiologist. He will be finishing up his internship year in a month. We are in San Antonio right now but all our family is out west too.

My husband really struggled with the decision of what to specialize in. He loved surgery and we were all set to go the surgical route clear up until one month before the application deadline. All his letters of rec were from surgeons and he even was offered a position outside of the match. BUT .... at the last possible moment, his worries about never seeing the children (especially with ours being older) he decided that it wasn't the best route for our family. He chose anesthesia again, raced out and got a letter of rec from an anesthesiologist and here we are! It has worked out for us so far.

The fourth year I got to see my hubby quite a bit more. It was still stressful for us because then he was interviewing, studying for boards, doing his rotations and trying to sell our house. It worked out well and am amazed we have finally gotten to this point in the journey. Three more years to go!!! Good luck in the decisions that are ahead!!!

I always thought it would be fun to have twins BUT ... I can imagine how hard it is also. Enjoy! Glad you found this site.

Robin

**DCJenn** · 05-30-2003, 12:20 PM

Hi Jen!

I'm one of the (many) Jen/Jenn/Jennifer's here. I don't have much to say about 4th year of medical school, because although we were dating, my husband chose to do almost all of his rotations elsewhere! While most people were struggling thoug internship year, it was actually OK for us because we saw each other more then than when during medical school! (We were married the day after graduation)

I can say that the third year of peds residency is GREAT!! I see him almost every day with normal hours. The few days he's on-call have been fine, too. I travel for work which is new for us, so now we're adjusting to my hours being limited!

Welcome aboard!

Jenn

**Phoebe** · 05-30-2003, 12:23 PM

Hi Jen! Welcome. I am another one of many Jennifers at this site. Congratulations on the close of your husband's third year. You must be so relieved. How do you like Michigan? I am from the East Lansing area originally and love it.

We currently live in Northeast Ohio and are preparing for a move to Indiana in the next month. My husband is finishing his fellowship in neonatology and will start post training life in July. We couldn't be happier. I am a SAHM to our 20 month old daughter and expecting our second daughter in 4 months.

Choosing a specialty can be hard. Unfortunately, I can't add much insight to it because I met my husband while he was an intern in pediatrics. The lifestyle is definitely a factor in deciding which specialty to pursue. There are a couple spouses of surgery residents here who can shed light on what it is like. My advice, besides considering the time commitment and lifestyle required, is to make sure your husband would be happy in his chosen area. For example, my husband went into pediatrics, but found he was very unhappy doing well-child checkups in a residency program that promoted primary care. On the other hand, he loved being in the NICU and has loved becoming a neonatologist.

Good luck on your decision and upcoming 4th year!

Jennifer

**migirl** · 05-30-2003, 12:54 PM

Hi Jen! Where in Michigan are you living right now? My husband is a soon-to-be 2nd-year urology resident at the U of M, so obviously we are living in Ann Arbor and we love it.

As I remember it, 4th year of med school was MUCH easier in terms of school requirements than 3rd year. The only thing that we found was that interviewing for residencies and preparing for the match was equally as stressful as the hospital rotations.

Choosing a specialty can be hard, and for us it was definitely a lifestyle choice. My husband really liked surgery but didn't want any part of the general surgeon's lifestyle. He finally settled on urology because he would be able to spend time in the operating room as well as in clinic, and would be able to have a fairly family-friendly schedule. He also liked the relatively healthy patient population that urologists usually see.

Good luck to you in making this tough choice, and let us know how it goes!

~Jane

**twinsmom** · 05-30-2003, 01:32 PM

Wow, thank you so much for the warm welcome - I feel like I have finally found a group of people who can have COMPLETE understanding of life in the medical realm... It is so fun to read about you and get to know you a little bit.
Just to answer some of the questions - we are just east of Detroit, in Harper Woods. It is a lot different then the west, but we really love it here. We are in an incredible neighborhood with good friends around (some of them think that my husband is more like my 'imaginary friend, snufulufagus'

). It's good to hear that I may be able to see him a bit more after this next month... but I am also learning that after one hurdle, there is instantly another that seems to be bigger and more demanding... (interviews, boards, step II, etc.).
Robin - has your husband been happy with the decision to forgo the surgery route? When my hubby came home last night and said that he was considering something completely different to be able to have more family time, part of me was really worried that he would regret giving up his love of surgery and I wonder if he will always have this little wonder of 'what if' if he doesn't do it. On the other hand, the thought of having him be able to be more involved with the family is heavenly!
Needless to say, we are still juggling back and forth. I had no idea there were so many specialties/subspecialties, etc our there! He has everything that he would need for neurosurg i.e. letters, experience, etc, so it will be a total scramble to get everything ready for a different route, but it is definitely doable if he decides to do it.
As for now, we are just hanging on for the ride

.
Oh, one more thing - he is in charge of 1st year orientations this summer/fall, and one thing that we are going to impliment is a spouses orientation (my sis-in-law had one at my brothers school and loved it). Are there things that you wish you would have been helped with/oriented to during your spouses orientation to med school? It will probably be just part of one of the days, but hopefully will get a little network going right from the start. We have thought about doing (patterned after my sis-in-law's) an orientation to the area (for those just moving here), a 'spouse/SO directory', a job fair, tour of the school, panel of 2-4 year spouses and med students, etc. Any other ideas? Thanks a ton!
Well, have a great day!
Jen

Join Date: Nov 2024 · 05-30-2003, 07:27 PM

Jen - I worried about the same thing when Russ started considering different specialties. I was worried he wouldn't be happy not doing surgery because he was so excited about it. For him the answer came when he went to the surgical residency program that he really wanted to get into, for a rotation. It was out of state and the family didn't go with him. After working 100 + hours a week and only getting one day off in all that time .... he decided that it wasn't worth the sacrifice he would have to make. Not just family time but really any time for anything else. He said the residents would stay late many times even after they could go home to see a new case etc. Russ didn't want to see the new case because he was just too tired. I was nervous when he switched to anesthesia but he has been VERY happy with his decision. For Russ, he would never have been truly happy in surgery. Even if he loved the work, missing so many family activities would have clouded that. That is just our take on it.

Those are great ideas you had for the spouse orientation you are planning. My only suggestion would be to make it as positive as possible. I went to the orientation at our school and left feeling absolutely ill. They had a panel also but ... they brought in a guest speaker who's husband was a surgeon and she matter of factly told us that we should never expect to see our husbands and that it was something for us to learn to get used to now because that's the career he had chosen and it wouldn't get better. It scared me to death and was absolutely of no help. Others on the panel tried to soften things out a little but .... I think all of us new medical spouses left feeling slightly ill!

It is doable without giving up the rest of your life.

Robin

**Rapunzel** · 05-31-2003, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by twinsmom

Oh, one more thing - he is in charge of 1st year orientations this summer/fall, and one thing that we are going to impliment is a spouses orientation (my sis-in-law had one at my brothers school and loved it). Are there things that you wish you would have been helped with/oriented to during your spouses orientation to med school? It will probably be just part of one of the days, but hopefully will get a little network going right from the start. We have thought about doing (patterned after my sis-in-law's) an orientation to the area (for those just moving here), a 'spouse/SO directory', a job fair, tour of the school, panel of 2-4 year spouses and med students, etc. Any other ideas?

When my husband began medical school the school held a spouse's orientation during what was referred to as the "MS-0 Orientation". I found it to be highly unhelpful. Why? There was a panel of wives present to briefly describe their experiences, what to expect, and answer questions. So far so good. BUT included next to them was a woman in the med school's administration - a woman who had a hand in scheduling rotations and influencing financial aid. She definitely "colored" what each of these women said. The women seemed to be very careful about how they answered questions and sugarcoated their intros/answers. The woman from the administration would answer questions that had been directed to the spouses on the panel and sometimes interrupt the spouse's answers. I came away from the orientation having no clue what to expect and with the expectation that everything should go quite smoothly during all of medical school and if it didn't then there was something wrong with me. So, my suggestions for an informative and supportive spouse orientation for medical school are:

1) Have a panel of spouses - at least one from each year of medical school and try to include spouses from varying backgrounds: working without children (one male and one female spouse from this category), full-time moms (one with one child and one with several children), moms who work outside the home (two with different lifestyles would be appropriate), and at least one dad who stays at home with the kids.

2) Have the spouse's orientation WITHOUT any members of the medical school administration or teaching staff present. This is HIGHLY important so that the non-medical spouses' answers and experiences are not guarded due to people who can influence their spouse's medical school experience being present. The new medical spouses need to come away from the meeting knowing exactly what is good and bad about that particular medical school without any "glossing over".

3) In a similar vein it would be a good idea to have a seperate spouse orientation for the new medical students with spouses/families. A panel of medical students from various years with spouses and/or families would be VERY helpful. A few non-medical spouses on the panel would also be helpful in providing information on how the MEDICAL spouse can support the NON-MEDICAL spouse. Support is a two-way street and it would be wise to help the new med students with spouses and families know exactly what they can do to help their families while they attend medical school. Again this meeting should have a complete absence of any medical school official or employee - period.

4) Definitely provide a list of names and numbers of medical spouses including names and ages of children (for potential playgroups) as well as a possible list of hobbies/interests that would facilitate medical spouses finding others with whom they can relate.

5) An orientation to the geographical area would be most helpful. Have a list of things to do for dates, things to do with children, local shops, local parks, activities/places unique to the area, local auto mechanics, apartment locator services, local banks, local grocery stores, local churches, etc.

6) A tour of the hospital is a good idea but as you can see last on my list of what I found important information when my husband began medical school. It is always interesting to tour the hospital and medical school facilities but it is not incredibly important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm all out of ideas after this! I just want to add that I am also the mom of twins - we had them at the end of the second year of medical school. I have four children total and my husband is in his second year of a five year radiology residency. I am glad that the number of people flocking to this site is growing and look forward to more introductions from new people and "lurkers" alike!

Jennifer (yup, ANOTHER Jennifer)

**twinsmom** · 05-31-2003, 09:45 AM

Wow -
Thank you so much for the ideas and advice. I didn't even think about how it could 'cloud' things having the medical staff present to hear some of the 'not-so-glowing' reports about med school.
Jennifer - how does your husband like radiology? I have a question about it - if someone would want to do invasive radiology, do they do a full radiology residency, and then a fellowship in invasive, or is it a separate residency all together?
I have to hand it to you with twins plus other children!! That is definitely a grand feat in and of itself - I can hardly keep up with just these two :!: .
Thank you once again!

Jen

**Rapunzel** · 05-31-2003, 10:11 AM

My husband, Jon, absolutely loves radiology. He has had some very difficult schedules lately but he still comes home after working 100+ hours a week with a smile on his face excited about what he has learned and acomplished. Radiology is a "lifestyle" residency most definitely. The guys coming out of my husband's residency program are getting offers of $300K the first year with partnership and a salary of $500-$800K guaranteed by the third year in practice. The hours are generally outstanding post-residency and there is huge potential to do teleradiology (ie read the studies at home on a high resolution computer screen and make big bucks). My husband and I have also noticed that the radiologist "personality" tends to be laid-back, happy, and easy to get along with.

That looks absolutely wonderful but there are drawbacks. Radiology is exceptionally difficult to match in lately because of the salary potential and the wonderfully flexible potential work hours post-residency. The residency is five years which is long - but radiology is exceptionally difficult and every bit of the five years is needed for learning situations and for studying for the three portions of the rads boards (physics, written, and oral). A big drawback is that the first year of the residency is required to be either an internal medicine or surgery year for which you must usually match seperately. This is primarly a "scut-work" year as an intern. All of the radiologists I have known (including my own husband) have found this to be a huge waste of time that could be better spent on learning their specialty. Finally, the radiology lifestyle post-residency can be as easy or as hard as you decide BUT the radiology residency is intensive and involves very long hours. Rads residents spend 10-14 hours at a time reading films and other learning tasks and can literally go days without seeing the sun or being outside! Because radiology departments and reading rooms are often in hospital basements radiology residents are often confined to the "dungeon" and do not have windows to view the outside world. So, those are the nasty parts.

Radiology subspecialties can vary greatly in their pay potential and work hours. Interventional radiologists can expect to bring in $500K - $800K easily BUT they have the hours and call of a surgeon. It is most definitely a surgery lifestyle so be prepared. Musculo-skeletal is generally a cushy, high-paying subspecialty similar to general rads. Chest also pays well, but the people who seem to opt for that fellowship path seem to be incredibly intense personalities (in other words many Chest Radiologists can be very difficult to work with). The worst radiology subspecialty byfar is Women's Imaging (Mammography). These radiologists make about 200K and are chronically understaffed and overworked. The bottom-line reason is that Medicaid has a very low re-imbursement rate for mammograms and preventive women's imaging and the medical insurance companies follow suit. Women's Imaging is fading in the private practice world but hospitals continue to have this department because these are "gateway" tests - in other words they lead to potentially expensive surgeries and thus $$$$ for the hospital. Sad but true.

Interventional radiology involves a fellowship after a diagnostic radiology residency. There is also a sub-specialty that is neuro-interventional radiology and that involves an additional fellowship. One warning about the future of IR: Cardiologists have been "stealing" IR procedures for years. The pattern goes like this: interventional radiologists develop new procedures, other specialties (such as cardiology) see the money-making potential of these specialties, and before any standards can be written down on prerequisites for procedures BAM! you have an internal medicine specialist performing an interventional radiology procedure. IR has been notorious in not protecting its profession from being gouged by other departments unfortunately.

**Meenah** · 06-01-2003, 10:38 AM

Hi Jen,
Welcome and congratulations on finding this site. I am Luanne, my husband is a Pulmonologist in private practice (school/training is way behind us and I find this site an important part of my life as a medical spouse). The general public has no clue how hard it is, and they have unrealistic ideas of what the medical life is like. This really the only place for me to complain / vent and someone understands!!!! I am an RN, and have two daughters 18 & 19. My husband has a son 17 and a daughter 20.
Time is our biggest obstacle, the lack of it. I wish you the best and look forward to getting to know you. We don't always complain here, we also share the good times!!!!
Luanne

**houseelf** · 06-02-2003, 09:43 AM

jen,

Welcome and no, I will not burst your bubble. Fourth year ROCKS. Seriously, I don't think that my dh studied at all. Live it up because residency wil come too soon. And although you have little ones, *try* to go on the interviews because you will be living in the city of your dh's residency a heck of a lot more than your dh. Just pack up the car and go. Heck, if you stop in my city, you can stay free at my house. We finageled free housing in many sites.

But, I didn't get to come to the interview where we would ultimately end up because I was close to delivering our first child. It was really hard to pack up everything I owned to move to a place that I had never been before for seven years. The anxiety just about did us in.

Anyway, enjoy this time and welcome aboard.

Kelly

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