Hello & questions

[peggyfromwastate]

I'm really sorry you are going through this. I had hopes that it would be ok in the sense that they wouldn't rip into him and you'd have a chance to get out of there.

I agree about talking to the doctor who stood up for him now. He may be an ally for your dh to transfer. He will fatigue of fighting the powers that be to keep your husband safe from dismissal eventually, if that's the end game of the PD. Why be slave labor for years to be dismissed in the end? What's wrong with Gen Surg for your Dh? If he's a surgical junkie (mine is) there are a lot of options in gen surg obviously, and lots of areas to specialize. Now than my dh is in year 4 of residency he's had enough experience to see that within the world of surgery there were a lot of areas he could have gone into and found something he really liked.

[medpedspouse]

I agree about talking with the guy that stood up for him. He has got to know what a horrible situation your DH is in and must understand why your DH would look to transfer. He should also be aware of the potential pitfalls/landmines to aviod if your DH decides to stay. If he doesn't understand, then his motivation for sticking up for your DH is questionable. I hate to say this but sometimes faculty take sides not because of the "side" itself but because they want to go against whomever is taking the other side to prove who has more pull/power/etc.

you have received some really good advice.
Four years sounds like a really really long time to be under the gun. I hope things either smooth out with the PD or he finds a way to get out of there.

[MarissaNicole]

Just checking in to see how your holding up.

Hey ladies,

So here's the not so great update. Feeling like we wanted to make it work or at least we felt it was our only option we've been trying to stick it out. DH wrote a letter to his director, which he seemed to respond well too. They had another meeting and the director was more calm and asked Dh what was going on. They had a good talk and the director said everyone wanted you here, no one wants to see you fail. Not so sure I believe him. Basically this jerk director just like last year, told everyone at the new hospital about what happend. The best part is my DH's current chief (they have 3 residents each year and three hospitals, so you have a different uro chief each year) his new chief asked my DH what happened and exact words to my DH was, "really that's it, you had a few minor mistakes? Have you ever missed internal bleeding in a patient and patient had to go into surgery asap? Have you ever ...." Basically she was listing off the things his co-residents did, basically saying that the stuff he did was no where near what they did. She also went on to say that since she's a black female she knows all about the "different way they treat some people". I'm assumming she means, jews, african americans, and women. Anyhow this all just validated how we felt, but already four days into the new rotation/hospital he feels again that he is just being treated so poorly. Today an attending say, Dr. X cancelled an add on surgery, but another atteding Dr. Y came in later and told DH he was covering for the same surgery. DH said " Dr. X cancelled it," well this guy blew up at DH, even after the anesthesiologist confirmed what DH said. But ok DH adds the surgery back on, the anesthesiologist checks the patient and says he will have a very hard time intebating her and states she's high risk. Well when DH lets Dr. Y know and again DH is blamed. Why? because he should have know anesthsia would have a hard time intebating. How my husband would know this since he is not an anesthesiologist, I have no idea.

Anyway I finally finally lost it. I mean after two weeks of not sleeping and feeling like I would have a nervous breakdown at any second. And you know what really pisses me off, I know I'm rambling but, family! I love my family , but everyone, his family, my family..they come down on me like well you need to get him through this, you need.... da da da. What do they want me to do, you know? This is just a horrible situation, but no matter how many meals I make or how much I cater to him, I can't get him through. The poor guy can't get himself through because of all this BS. I'm very unbiased, but please they just have it in for him. So I finally told him tonight, that you need to choose, whether you want to be a doctor or not. I cannot trust as you have all said that they won't just try to throw him out again. So he already called someone and he'll try to talk to them about any possibility of transfering specialties or maybe resigning and then trying again. Unfortunately urology is impossible to get into and even harder to transfer into, but I know he can do something else and I REFUSE to let these cold, stick up their behind people destroy my husband and our future. Even if I have to pull out more strength from I dont know where, I will do it. Of course I have to keep reminding myself of that... thanks for all the support again guys...update you again soon.

[ides]

I'm sorry. Dh has had his career threatened over ridiculous things that had nothing to do with him. Really messed up. If your dh does change specialties I suggest you avoid general surgery. The culture is magligant across the board- though I'm sure some are better than others. It is their intent to break you. Again, really messed up. It's hard not to be bitter with all the messed up crap. We considered anes. a few times, but ended up staying in general surgery. Lots of people switch to emergency as well. Thanks for updating. Hugs!

[peggyfromwastate]

So sorry. If you did transfer to a gen surg program, the possibility to get into Uro again may be there. Emergency med is also an intriguing idea.

My dh has come to the conclusion (BONEHEAD) that this whole thing is not worth it. He's not even in a malignant program. His main complaint is that they keep on throwing weekend *academic obligations* at the residents that are mandatory. With like, 30 hours notice. It's not unusual for him to have to work for 3 weekends of a month, even when he's supposedly NOT taking call any weekend. It's so frickin stupid. That crap is what demoralizes my DH to the core. To be targeted? Maligned? Every day at work????

No, it's DEFINITELY not worth it.

Your DH could still do something in medicine. And if he is really a surgery guy, Emergency med may have enough procedures and blood for him....

Right now you guys need some stability and some respect. It's not necessary to endure 6 years of being treated like crap. There are better places out there, and no, it's not your job to cater to him throughout training like some endentured servent. You can see the negative effects this program has on your dh, and you telling him enough already could very well be WHAT you should do as a supportive, loving spouse.

[Pollyanna]

What Peggy said.

So sorry you are dealing with this

[Urowife]

Do the other residents ever get treated poorly? It sounds like the attendings are mean and angry. And usually, they target all the residents with their unhappiness. Regardless, it sounds like a malignant program, and I doubt things will get better. Maybe he could talk with his new chief who seems to be nice? Ask her opinion? Good luck - I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.

I am sorry you have to go through this, it sounds like the place you're at isn't the place for you and your husband. I know transferring seems tough but sooner is better rather than later. As to getting yelled at for not knowing things that you really have no reason to know, that happens all the time in my husband's program and I wouldn't say his program is malignant. It's awful and a little sadistic but medicine and residency in particular, work within a hierarchy that resembles fraternity hazing. At least NSG does. As the NSG intern my husband gets yelled at, a lot, but as time goes on there are more and more instances of him getting praise or quality learning opportunities, but the yelling hasn't diminished that much and I don't really expect it to any time soon. A threat of dismissal or a having someone targeting your husband is NOT OKAY but I think some of the irrational berating is to be expected. That's not to say it's okay either but medicine is a bitch of a mistress and we have to remember to separate what is normal "awfulness" from what is unacceptable "awfulness" that bridges on abuse. Point being if he stays you may have to try harder to differentiate between the two to maintain your sanity. Check into a transfer/specialty switch, coming from a competitive specialty like urology will help. Good luck, hang in there!

Thanks for the support and private messages! We're looking into couple avenues right now, DH is calling two program directors that he knew before and are very nice people, just to see what he would have to do. Even if he needs to resign and then do research I think it's still worth it to salvage his career, anything besdies being terminated. I get what some of your are saying and trust me I get that being bitched at all day to the point of tears is normal for surgery. He went through it last year and we knew what to brush off, well basically you know, we had to brush it all off. But the issue here is that his program director keeps tabs on him to the point where he is clearly talking to every attending. And so because these attendings don't rememer what they went through or just don't care about there fellow Dr. whether they have a family or not, when they get angry who knows what they say in the heat of the moment to this director. AND my DH didn't even do ANYTHING to warrant this. I mean don't get mad because your fellow attending cancelled a surgery! No one's rational in this program. I think I was in denial, I wanted to brush it all off, but if they've threatened to throw him out and placed 2 letters of deficiancy then what's next? We need to be able to live without looking over our shoulders every second. It's hard enough being a newlywed, well over a year now, but moving away from family, making your own life, but then this, we NEVER anticipated this. I just have to try and take control before it's too late, but I guess that's a joke, the wife or DH having any control in medicine? lol Never. I also have to trust what you all have said, if all of you feel the same way that's pretty strong, so thanks and please cross your fingers guys : )

[Phoebe]

i just saw this post. I wanted to say welcome and that I am so sorry you have to go through all this. Medicine sucks the life out of you.

[HouseofWool]

All of the crap from residency is hard. Really hard, but you shouldn't live feeling like you have to watch out to that degree. I hope that your husband can find an attending or two that will help him find a program to which he is better suited.

[MarissaNicole]

Although it sucks I think you are being realistic and doing the right thing. If you don't look into transferring you're going to worry everyday for the next five years whether they're going to screw your husband. It's better to take what control you have and get the hell out if there so they don't have the option of ruining his career. Your husband is lucky you are so strong, supportive and levelheaded about it all. Hang in there. We're all rooting for you guys.

[GrayMatterWife]

As to getting yelled at for not knowing things that you really have no reason to know, that happens all the time in my husband's program and I wouldn't say his program is malignant. It's awful and a little sadistic but medicine and residency in particular, work within a hierarchy that resembles fraternity hazing. At least NSG does. As the NSG intern my husband gets yelled at, a lot, but as time goes on there are more and more instances of him getting praise or quality learning opportunities, but the yelling hasn't diminished that much and I don't really expect it to any time soon. A threat of dismissal or a having someone targeting your husband is NOT OKAY but I think some of the irrational berating is to be expected. That's not to say it's okay either but medicine is a bitch of a mistress and we have to remember to separate what is normal "awfulness" from what is unacceptable "awfulness" that bridges on abuse. Point being if he stays you may have to try harder to differentiate between the two to maintain your sanity. Check into a transfer/specialty switch, coming from a competitive specialty like urology will help. Good luck, hang in there!

This. You have a tough decision to make: is this unacceptable awfulness?

I remember in DH's PGY1 year, I was awoken in the middle of the night by the voice of some shrieking shrew of a bitter bitch PEDI-SURG fellow (DH had to rotate through that as part of his PRELIM year). I could hear her, word-for-profane-word, from across the room through the telephone. It was around 3:00 AM and she called, SCREAMING like a pyschopath. At DH. About a patient that wasn't his. And he'd never had anything to do with. That was the closest I'd ever seen to DH consider quitting. He really had to get some perspective, and it helped that crazy chick was not from his department. But, random anger and screaming and selective blame-placing from fellows and attendings is pretty par for the course.

On a happier note: now, six years later, in DH's chief year, I am SO PROUD of him. I often am awoken in the middle of the night, to hear a very tense conversation on the phone. But, this time, it's DH being the hardass. Usually with some attending from another department who has no idea what he's talking about re: a NSG patient. DH is firm but unmistakably in charge and not about to put up with any BS. And he never, ever shouts. He was blessed to have had the BEST chief residents as a PGY2, who were fantastic examples of how to be a great chief. He learned a lot, and carried that with him.