Hello & questions

[HouseofWool]

IMHO - talking to the PD about a transfer is the safest bet. If the PD wants your husband gone, he can have it done. With a transfer, it can be done without negative reprecussion to either your DH or the program. Resigning and being fired are equally bad options. Hang in there.

Hi guys,

So couple problems with transfer. First we asked GME if PD would help DH with transfer. We got the feeling from her that it's not an option as PD is deciding whether or not to dismiss DH and he isn't entertaining the thought of helping him transfer. At this program I don't think they care if they let someone go, at least that's the sense I get from everything that's gone on. GME did say that PD said he would give DH the opportunity to resign if he is going to dismiss him (thanks a lot) and write a fair letter of summation. Also in DH's specialty they're basically no open positions for his year right now. There is a board we look at and the one open position we found is now filled. DH does have an opportunity to do gen surg, but the guy said he would take him in the summer, so transfer isn't an option for us now with that. We basically know that right now we're in a helpless situation, family and friends are giving their support, which is great, but we just have to see what happens since we decided not to resign. The PD is calling a meeting with all the attendings on Tuesday to make his decision. My DH has already spoke to a few attendings (including the program director of the partner hospital) who don't understand why PD is doing this and said they will go to bat for him, but in the end PD is their boss so I don't how far they'll get. But I think know exactly what will happen, once again they'll let him stay only to do the same thing again in another 2-3 months. I will let you guys know what happens on Tuesday.

[Urowife]

Good luck - keep your eye on the AUA board. You never know when a spot might open up. There must be more gen surg spots available - is there a similar board where open spots are posted?

[Phoebe]

Sorry! the waiting must be agonizing!

Update... So yesterday all the attendings had the meeting, today we're supposed to find out, or so we thought. This is a like a nightmare, unreal...the PD tells DH that he wants to meet tomorrow at 4:30. This guy has no regard for my DH or that he has a family, nothing. How long do they think my DH can go on working while he believes he will be fired. My DH tells him can we please meet today. No response, so DH calls the GME director who we now realize is just there to protect the hospital. She was at the meeting with the attendings. DH explains to her that he feels he can not keep working under these conditions. He wants to know if he's being dismissed or not. She procedes to rudely tell him well "PD hasn't told me his final decision and I won't know until we all have a meeting. And you seem so unhappy that you want to leave so I would just come prepared with your resignation"....... Is this for real? My DH says to her I think you have the wrong idea it's not that I want to leave but I would like to know if I'm being fired as I don't want to continue working if that's the case. She just says well I can't meet today. This is seriously crazy. So my DH and I are assuming that he will be dismissed since the GME lady said come prepared with your resignation, but of course we can't go on that alone. I didn't sleep at all the past two nights and I feel like I want to go to the hospital and punch these people, and I am no where near a violent person. DH is now hoping to speak with an attending who was at the meeting who had been very nice to him to see if he can get out what happened. One can only pray we get out of this hellish place. If they do dismiss DH, I wasn't going here before but now I really think we should sue for emotional torture, aside from all the other unethical crap like working 100 hours a week, a month straight, oh and continuing to have him work while they're quote "concerned". I just need to know what is going here....

[Deebs]

I am SO sorry that this is going on and really sorry I didn't see this earlier. DH had something a little similar happen to him during training (although it never escalated), and it completely devastated him.

You have a couple of things working in your favor - the most important of which is money. The program gets paid well to have your DH filling a slot. GME is going to want him to stay for that reason, unless he is disruptive.

Does the program have a residents or fellows association? If so, is he protected by being allowed an advocate from that organization? If he is able to do that, he needs to act on that now.

Suing is going to get you nowhere, except money into a lawyer's pocket, IMO. You could report them for work hours violations, but even that is really tough. Has he been complaining about his hours? I'm not saying he shouldn't, I"m just saying it's kind of frowned upon in many places. A lot of older docs feel like they worked crazy hours and so should everyone else.

When DH was "in trouble", he went and plead his case that he LOVED his program, job, hospital, etc. He made his own remediation plan and found a doc who supported him, asked him to be a formal mentor, and made a mentoring plan. If he had a deficiency in knowledge, he asked to lead a journal club discussion and find articles on that particular illness. He worked harder than his classmates for an entire year. I threw myself into work and we survived it. His program wasn't malignant at all, but DH did want to transfer.

And no, your DH's PD doesn't care about you and would probably prefer that your DH be married to the hospital. Just sayin'. You don't factor into any of this in his eyes. It's simply about employment. Can your DH be a great, easy to employ individual who makes that PD's job easier?

I'm not meaning to be harsh, I've just seen this kind of PD in many specialties. We were lucky that DH's PD was phenomenal, but DH over-reacted every time he was even questioned. He always thought he was in trouble, which probably kept him out of trouble.

If I were giving your DH advice, I'd tell him to make sure he isn't disciplined in writing (literally have him ask what he can do to keep this out of his record if nothing has been put there yet), work his tail off, and try for a transfer when a slot comes open.

He could also cut his losses, leave, and work urgent care or another job that requires an MD but no completion of residency.

Good luck to you both!

[ladymoreta]

I'm so sorry, this is just awful. Deebs has some great advice, too. I hope another position opens up soon, and best of luck in the meantime. It makes me so mad on your behalf how they are dragging this out.

[Vanquisher]

Having sued a program, in your case I would advise against it. He can try to scramble into an open spot, probably in a different specialty in March. Resigning vs being fired. Doesnt matter, IMO. Im so sorry. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.


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[Ravenclaw]

I don't have any advice but just wanted to tell you I'm sorry. I hope everything works out in your favor.

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this
I don't have any great advice but I am thinking of you guys!

Hey all, so.... they fired him. Well they said that they would let him resign But in the letter of summation they're going to put that he resigned because they were going to fire him, so thanks for nothing. Quite a few of the attendings feel really bad for DH, as they should. They all know it was wrong. A couple of them tried to talk to the PD, to at least to let DH stay on a couple weeks and help him transfer, but no go. DH met with PD today, no transfer nothing, just turn in your beeper. We don't want to sue, well of course we do, but we know that's not the right avenue if DH wants to continue medicine. It seems that PD couldn't see past what happened in DH's intern year, he couldn't get over a senior resident's incoherent e-mail. Why did they even let him go on then? PD should have just let him go then if he was never going to get past it. Amazing DH's co-resident killed someone in his intern year, but he's still here. Meanwhile my DH never did anything that remotely put someone in harms way. DH has another opportunity that we are now praying will pan out, but I won't know for a few weeks. It's amazing that this one man could try to destroy my husband's entire career. It's like a death, I mean thank god that it isn't really a death or a sickness, but I don't know how else to describe it. Medicine is just unreal. Well wanted to thank you all again, you were all right from the beginning. There's just not many options, very slim pickings...who knows maybe if medicine doesn't work out DH will be a professor like he always wanted to be. Anyway again thanks for all the support. I think I've complained enough on this board. Life will go on and if we're back in medicine again I will let you guys know. Thanks...

[HouseofWool]

I'm sorry it turned out so badly, especially right before the holidays. Hopefully he can find an interm spot and make it work for him.

[v-girl]

I am so sorry. That is awful.

So sorry!!
We are all here if you need to keep talking it through.
Praying this new opportunity will work out.

[ladymoreta]

I'm so sorry they did that - especially two days before Christmas. Such a rotten, nasty person. I hope he's able to find another position soon, or pursue teaching. Goodness knows you guys are due for some good breaks.