Hello from the Mountain West

[diggitydot]

Is the entire phlebotomy course online or just the testing? I'd be wary of the validity of any certificate earned by a strictly online course. And $150 sounds way, WAY off.

Something is wonky with whomever is offering that certification course.

[ides]

It is true that programs take us grads first then fmg. Both of the surgical residents in dhs program that are fmgs from India were taken into the program after a preliminary year & did not get there categorical spot through the match. It's also in their favor that dhs program director is Indian & favors or has a preference for Indians over other fmg's.

You do have the odds against you but it can be done. It's great you are helping your dh with fact finding & research. Going into it with your eyes open will give you the best shot.

[MissCrabette]

I'm relieved that you didn't take my post the wrong way. Maybe I get a little too eager when offering this kind of information because I feel like I was in your shoes (or almost) not too long ago, and there weren't that many spouses here to go to for advice.

His mentor was absolutely right about the three things he mentioned. Visa status is HUGE, and he's lucky to have become a permanent resident with your help. The school they went to also matters, although you'd be surprised how little Americans know about foreign schools. Unless he went to a very well-known school or the program already has residents that graduated from that school, they'll just shrug their shoulders and say they never heard of the place. Step scores are also very important, and he should shoot for as high as possible, but he should also be aware that after a certain point, he will get diminishing returns.

This brings me to a point that only occurred to me recently. It wasn't something we worried about because my husband only graduated this January, but during my research of the numerous programs he applied to, it became obvious that the vast majority of programs want fresh graduates, less than 5 years out of medical school. If his studying time will put him past that by the time of the application, he might have a much harder time matching. You might already know this, but residency programs use filters so that they never even have to look at an application that doesn't meet their criteria. They can screen for visa status, graduation year, step scores, anything you can think of. On the other hand, I wouldn't rush it so much that he fails a step because that's a pretty big red flag and yet another thing programs can screen for. Is he using a question bank such as USMLE World? Have you considered a review course such as Kaplan or Falcon? They're expensive, but they may be worth it.

Sadly, your husband is right when he says that they will take the American grads first. It makes the program look much better when it fills with American grads as opposed to IMGs. It is what it is, and you have to work really hard to make your application stand out to even be considered. Gosh, I sound like such a downer, and I apologize for it. I remember when my husband was doing his General Surgery rotation they were trying to decide if they should take the IMG who was already doing a prelim year there and had proven himself or a less qualified American grad. My husband left before a decision was made, so I can't say that IMGs never get picked over AMGs, but it's an uphill battle.

[Cinderella]

Is the entire phlebotomy course online or just the testing? I'd be wary of the validity of any certificate earned by a strictly online course. And $150 sounds way, WAY off.

Something is wonky with whomever is offering that certification course.

I'm not sure. I'll ask further about it. His BIL recommended it and I questioned the $150 fee as well but he assured me if his BIL recommended it then he got it from a good source at the hospital he did his PhD at. I tried to contact the lab supervisor at the hospital I used to work at. We used to be friends before he became the supervisor but I guess since we hadn't spoken in a long time he decided not to reply back to me. I'm even friends with his brothers so I don't know why he'd have a reason to not reply.

It is true that programs take us grads first then fmg. Both of the surgical residents in dhs program that are fmgs from India were taken into the program after a preliminary year & did not get there categorical spot through the match. It's also in their favor that dhs program director is Indian & favors or has a preference for Indians over other fmg's.

You do have the odds against you but it can be done. It's great you are helping your dh with fact finding & research. Going into it with your eyes open will give you the best shot.

Thank you for the confirmation. DrH recognizes that the Indian doctors are well organized and mentor each other. It was one of the first observatios he made in his report back to me during his observership back east. He expressed a desire for an Egyptian doctor community like that here for their own favor as well. The closest thing he found were a handful of egyptian doctors on the east coast that celebrated holidays together and included his Sister, her husband and their kids. I told him have a good work ethic, show that your intelligent and network with other doctors and you'll do just as well.

I'm relieved that you didn't take my post the wrong way. Maybe I get a little too eager when offering this kind of information because I feel like I was in your shoes (or almost) not too long ago, and there weren't that many spouses here to go to for advice.

His mentor was absolutely right about the three things he mentioned. Visa status is HUGE, and he's lucky to have become a permanent resident with your help. The school they went to also matters, although you'd be surprised how little Americans know about foreign schools. Unless he went to a very well-known school or the program already has residents that graduated from that school, they'll just shrug their shoulders and say they never heard of the place. Step scores are also very important, and he should shoot for as high as possible, but he should also be aware that after a certain point, he will get diminishing returns.

This brings me to a point that only occurred to me recently. It wasn't something we worried about because my husband only graduated this January, but during my research of the numerous programs he applied to, it became obvious that the vast majority of programs want fresh graduates, less than 5 years out of medical school. If his studying time will put him past that by the time of the application, he might have a much harder time matching. You might already know this, but residency programs use filters so that they never even have to look at an application that doesn't meet their criteria. They can screen for visa status, graduation year, step scores, anything you can think of. On the other hand, I wouldn't rush it so much that he fails a step because that's a pretty big red flag and yet another thing programs can screen for. Is he using a question bank such as USMLE World? Have you considered a review course such as Kaplan or Falcon? They're expensive, but they may be worth it.

Sadly, your husband is right when he says that they will take the American grads first. It makes the program look much better when it fills with American grads as opposed to IMGs. It is what it is, and you have to work really hard to make your application stand out to even be considered. Gosh, I sound like such a downer, and I apologize for it. I remember when my husband was doing his General Surgery rotation they were trying to decide if they should take the IMG who was already doing a prelim year there and had proven himself or a less qualified American grad. My husband left before a decision was made, so I can't say that IMGs never get picked over AMGs, but it's an uphill battle.

I'm happy for your advice MissCrabette. His Sister mentioned the diminishing return. Sometimes when he takes his practice exams and he gets stumped on a question he frets over it and asks other doctors to answer it to see if it's just him or if it's one of the really tough questions. He tells me all the time that these exams are considered the hardest exams in the world. He also mentioned the fresh graduates thing but he included that they look at the gap in their medical experience as well. After graduation he had his one year residency in the governmental hospitals then he had to serve his mandatory military duty which they are allowed to postpone during school. He served it as a doctor so he has that experience there. From that he went to a private clinic working 14-16 hour days. He worked there until March 2010. Then he came to the US and did an observership at the end of 2010. If they use a filter then I'm not sure what we'll do.

We have an entire bookshelf of the entire collection of Kaplan USMLE books for each Step. He also watches the videos and met one of the guys back east that is in them. That's what he's going through for his studies. Since his Sister and BIL are registered with ECFMG he has access to the resources as well for practice exams and whatever else until we fork over the money and register him for the October Step 1. We're waiting to do that though because once you register you have to take the exam within 3 months or lose the money. So we'll do it when he's for sure ready. Several people have also mentioned that there is a preliminary year or first year residency. Then after that they consider giving you however many more. I'm fine with that if they give him a shot to have the life he wants. I know he can do it.

Sorry I have to go back to work now.

[Momo]

Msscrabette is telling it like it is. It's tough but it can be done...hopefully he'll be a success story!

[diggitydot]

Kaplan is great, but expensive. Maybe he knows someone who will let him share their info? DH received Kaplans test bank for free because he taught for them for a couple years so he shared with everyone in his med school class.

[Cinderella]

Msscrabette is telling it like it is. It's tough but it can be done...hopefully he'll be a success story!

Thank you Shazam! I'm sure he will be even if it takes us longer than planned. Lets hope it's sooner than later.

Kaplan is great, but expensive. Maybe he knows someone who will let him share their info? DH received Kaplans test bank for free because he taught for them for a couple years so he shared with everyone in his med school class.

Yep we have all the Kaplan books and it takes up a small bookshelf. We're lucky his Sister and BIL share their USMLE registration material with us before he registers so he may get the benefit of that. That was really kind of your DH to share with everyone in his med school class.

Thank you again everyone for your helpful information!

[diggitydot]

His class in med school was very tight. Still some of my favorite peeps ever. We keep in touch with a lot of them and regularly vacation with one family.

Does he know anyone with the online question banks (not just the study books)? Those can be really helpful because the questions are presented similarly to the USMLEs. DH used the q-banks much more than the books.

[Cinderella]

His class in med school was very tight. Still some of my favorite peeps ever. We keep in touch with a lot of them and regularly vacation with one family.

Does he know anyone with the online question banks (not just the study books)? Those can be really helpful because the questions are presented similarly to the USMLEs. DH used the q-banks much more than the books.

I'll have to ask him when I get home from work tonight and let you know.

He called me at work and I asked him. He said there are alot of databases and that he uses USMLE World and Kaplan.

[MDPhDWife]

I second what others have said about Qbank. That was absolutely essential in DH's preparation. My DH had a 5 year gap between his first two years of med school & taking Step 1 due to the way his MD/PhD program is set up. It was so bad that luckily for those behind him they've now changed it. But due to that 5 year gap of when he actually learned the material he would be tested on, we opted to go to the PASS program in Champaign, Illinois. It was very expensive, but DH said it made a HUGE difference for him. Also, I'm not sure if your DH is aware of this, but he can take simulated exams (I can't recall how much they cost) that will give him an estimated score back. This will help him determine if he's ready to schedule the real exam.

[scrub-jay]

I'll have to ask him when I get home from work tonight and let you know.

He called me at work and I asked him. He said there are alot of databases and that he uses USMLE World and Kaplan.

From what I've heard: q-bank and USMLE world are comparable (equal rave reviews on both sides). FWIW, obviously I haven't used either one.

[Cinderella]

I second what others have said about Qbank. That was absolutely essential in DH's preparation. My DH had a 5 year gap between his first two years of med school & taking Step 1 due to the way his MD/PhD program is set up. It was so bad that luckily for those behind him they've now changed it. But due to that 5 year gap of when he actually learned the material he would be tested on, we opted to go to the PASS program in Champaign, Illinois. It was very expensive, but DH said it made a HUGE difference for him. Also, I'm not sure if your DH is aware of this, but he can take simulated exams (I can't recall how much they cost) that will give him an estimated score back. This will help him determine if he's ready to schedule the real exam.

THank you MDPhDWife! This is the first time I've heard of the PASS program. I'm interested in learning more about it. I'll ask him about the simulated exams. I think he's taken some but I'll ask anyways to be sure. We spoke this morning and he said he feels he'd be ready to register for sure in May for the the October exam. He corrected me that when one registers they don't have to take the exam with three months of registration, but that they get to pick their three month window to take the exam in and that's the only time they may take it. If the three month window they picked passed and they didn't take it then they lose the money they paid and get a F on the exam. If they fail though they can still retake the exam. It's only when they pass that they can't retake it for a higher score. They are stuck with that score. He said he's aiming for the high 90's so he may have a better chance of getting the residency he wants. I think there is also a lot of nerves about his older Sister, who already took these exams and all were in the high 90's, and living up to that standard. He won't say that of course.

From what I've heard: q-bank and USMLE world are comparable (equal rave reviews on both sides). FWIW, obviously I haven't used either one.

Thanks for the infomation Crystal! I'll have to mention q-bank as well.

[MissCrabette]

If the three month window they picked passed and they didn't take it then they lose the money they paid and get a F on the exam.

No, that's incorrect. You lose the money, yes, but it doesn't count as a failed attempt. You can even extend the 3-month eligibility period once.

If you are unable to take Step 1/Step 2 CK during the three-month eligibility period assigned to you, you may request a one-time extension. You may extend your eligibility period only through the next, contiguous eligibility period (the next eligibility period that does not overlap with your original eligibility period).

http://www.ecfmg.org/2011ib/ibexam.html#ep (Scroll down to Eligibility Period Extension)
http://www.ecfmg.org/2011ib/ibexam.html#schedul



And I must say, I don't really know what your BIL and SIL are passing on to your husband. There are no study materials on ECFMG that he doesn't already have access to. It's all online. Also, when you talk about the Kaplan books and say that you have an entire bookshelf of them, that's not the same as the Kaplan review course or the online q-bank. I think they publish one q-bank book, though, but the online product is most likely the more complete and up-to-date option. Most people I know have actually used the USMLE World questions. I know Kaplan is a big name in education, but don't just go for it because of name recognition. Do some research and see what the best products are. It may no longer be USMLE World for all I know, but it's not necessarily Kaplan, either.

[Cinderella]

No, that's incorrect. You lose the money, yes, but it doesn't count as a failed attempt. You can even extend the 3-month eligibility period once.

http://www.ecfmg.org/2011ib/ibexam.html#ep (Scroll down to Eligibility Period Extension)
http://www.ecfmg.org/2011ib/ibexam.html#schedul



And I must say, I don't really know what your BIL and SIL are passing on to your husband. There are no study materials on ECFMG that he doesn't already have access to. It's all online. Also, when you talk about the Kaplan books and say that you have an entire bookshelf of them, that's not the same as the Kaplan review course or the online q-bank. I think they publish one q-bank book, though, but the online product is most likely the more complete and up-to-date option. Most people I know have actually used the USMLE World questions. I know Kaplan is a big name in education, but don't just go for it because of name recognition. Do some research and see what the best products are. It may no longer be USMLE World for all I know, but it's not necessarily Kaplan, either.

Thanks MissCrabette! See how much I don't know and get to learn from you all? I wonder if my BIL knew that he was able to extend his 3 month period on his first Step? He just took it recently and was worried he wasn't ready. I will absolutely pass that on to DrH. Though now that I think about it in the cobwebs of my memory there is a foggy one of a few years ago where that's exactly what his Sister did with one of her steps. She was ill and was taking care of her two daughters and couldn't take the exam on time and extended the three month period. It was in the early beginings. He might already know about it and I just forgot.

I think the benefit he gets from his Sister and BIL passing on their access to ECMFG is exactly as you said, "it's all online". He may not have known that before and was guided to it through their access. His USMLE books are on each step and for each step there is about 7-9 books to go through. The collection of Step 1 books is much larger than the collection of Step 2 books. He did the research and that's what he picked. He prefers hand held books for reference and review to the online option. I'm kind of the same way. I'd rather have my own personal book to read and make my marks in then share a book online with hundreds of people who can also make their marks on them and be viewed by others like with the virtual readers now days. Not saying that's what the USMLE online stuff is like just that it's more personal to have your own books. You know how some people prefer land schools to online schools and vice versa?

[MissCrabette]

His USMLE books are on each step and for each step there is about 7-9 books to go through.

Are these general review books for each step or are they study guides for various subjects such as microbiology or anatomy? I don't know what to say if they're study guides. On one hand he probably feels like he needs a refresher. On the other hand, my reaction is to say that he already knows this stuff. After all, he graduated from medical school already. These were books my husband used while taking those classes, not after. If they're all different review books for Step 1, I'd caution him that he's wasting time. They're all more or less the same thing. Some are better than others, but he should pick one or two at most, and do tons of questions during the rest of his time. My husband and his classmates used First Aid for the USMLE Step 1, if that helps.

He prefers hand held books for reference and review to the online option. I'm kind of the same way. I'd rather have my own personal book to read and make my marks in then share a book online with hundreds of people who can also make their marks on them and be viewed by others like with the virtual readers now days.

The online option is not a book. It's thousands of questions formatted the same way the actual exam is. They're not marked in any way by other users. Well, you DO get feedback on how well other users have done, so you know how you compare, but I would imagine that's a good thing, no? This is probably where he should spend the bulk of his studying time, doing as many of the questions as he can and then reviewing his answers, making sure he understands why he got a certain question wrong.