Cards Wives/Spouses and General Burnout

[WolfpackWife]

I posted a similar thread in grand rounds last week but never got any responses. I wasn't sure if more people perused the Intro section but I thought I'd try again (sorry, moderators, if this isn't something I should do...please let me know).

I am really curious to speak with wives/spouses of cards specialists. Though it may change (but I'd be shocked if it did) my husband intends on specializing in cardiology--within the specialty he is particularly interested in EP or interventional.

So, I'm curious to know if there are cardiology wives/spouses out there who have been down this road or are currently heading down it. I'm wondering about what your life with a cardiologist is like. I ran across a couple of MedScape articles over the weekend discussing burnout rate among specialities and shockingly Cards specialists where on the less-burned out side, and their general satisfaction with life was above average (though they are not the most satisfied/least burned out specialists). The study showed cards specialists are happier on average, feel as though they have adequate time out of work, and are happy with their lifestyle as compared to other specialties--but they are not the MOST happy or MOST satisfied (which, I did not think they were).

So while I am anxious to connect with other wives of cardiologists or intended cardiologists, I thought other readers could benefit from the lifestyle report and offer feedback on how this reflects their own spouse's specialty:

Cards Specific: http://www.medscape.com/features/sli...012/cardiology

General Lifestyle Report: http://www.medscape.com/features/sli...le/2013/public

[Thirteen]

I can't speak for cards, but I can definitely say that many physicians, regardless of speciality, are prone to/have experienced burn out. It is very real.

[WolfpackWife]

I can't speak for cards, but I can definitely say that many physicians, regardless of speciality, are prone to/have experienced burn out. It is very real.

I know it is absolutely real, I have an uncle who is a emergency med physician in his 33rd year of practice. Burnout is actually too-tame a term for how he feels. I thought it was maybe just him or the area in which he practices but I wasn't shocked at all to see Emergency Med topping the list of burnout. I am curious to hear about iMSNer's experiences with burnout or if they have discussed it with their spouses. It's something I'd like to stay abreast of if that's at all possible.

[Deebs]

My DH is EM, so it may not be surprising, but burnout prevention is something discussed and addressed at every conference. DH's group pays for each director to have a life coach (I think that's what she technically is, but in practice, shes a lifesaver) to address administrative issues, difficult situations, and burnout. It costs the group a lot, but is worth every penny. We're at a conference right now and everyone was talking about how amazing that is, just last night. I would think that specialties that see many patients die have a higher burnout, but that's just a guess.

[WolfpackWife]

My DH is EM, so it may not be surprising, but burnout prevention is something discussed and addressed at every conference. DH's group pays for each director to have a life coach (I think that's what she technically is, but in practice, shes a lifesaver) to address administrative issues, difficult situations, and burnout. It costs the group a lot, but is worth every penny. We're at a conference right now and everyone was talking about how amazing that is, just last night. I would think that specialties that see many patients die have a higher burnout, but that's just a guess.

That's really encouraging to hear--even if my DH's intended specialty isn't one with the highest burnout rate I know it's very possible. In my uncle's case, his burnout (and what he's expressed to me and DH) stems from the difficult, violent, entitled patient population he deals with every day. I am sure there is some of that in every specialty but I also would think this sort of patient population differs from area to area/hospital. But maybe not?

[SuzySunshine]

People can correct me if I"m wrong but I think we only have one cards wife and I don't think she's on much...

[diggitydot]

People can correct me if I"m wrong but I think we only have one cards wife and I don't think she's on much...

I think you're correct.

[WolfpackWife]

People can correct me if I"m wrong but I think we only have one cards wife and I don't think she's on much...

Oh wow! I don't know whether to be surprised about that or not, but I still am! I just can't catch a break with finding someone who is married to/related to a cardiologist...I'm too anxious about what is in store for me but I can't connect with someone who has a very similar path/story NOT to say that all of the insight given to me from everyone else--even people with spouses in more demanding specialties--isn't well received and MUCH appreciated. I am the anxious type who feels as though I still "don't' know what I"m in for" unless I have feedback from someone who has a cardiology-specific spouse. That probably sounds crazy, but I don't think I'm articulating it correctly...as I'm sure some of you have experienced, when people ask me what DH wants to "do" in medicine and I tell them, they've always got horror stories that start with "Oh, my friend is married to/divorced from a Cardiologist...good luck with that". The only time people had worse reactions were during the brief period of time DH considered CT Surgery. It's funny how no one ever has a good story to share when you tell them what your spouse is in school/training for...everyone has a "married to a doctor" horror story and they love to share them it seems.

[oceanchild]

I can think of a couple people in fellowship too. I can PM you screen names if you want to take that approach.

[L.Jane]

It's funny how no one ever has a good story to share when you tell them what your spouse is in school/training for...everyone has a "married to a doctor" horror story and they love to share them it seems.

Well let me be one. My DH is in gen surgery. Its supposedly one of the worst residencies I always get sympathetic looks when I tell people who are knowledgeable about medicine. I am in the hardest year of the residency, and while it has been no piece of cake, and there have been really ugly days, it could have been a whole hell of a lot worse and I have felt lucky after hearing other people's stories. We have days we don't see each other, but I enjoy having the couch and tv to myself occasionally and when he is home we enjoy our time together. We don't have kids yet, so we don't have that complication at the moment that could have made residency a lot harder. There are others in our residency that do, and they too make it work. I think if you go in expecting the worst like I did (because I am a true worry wart), it never seems to be that bad. We also had the worst rotations of the worst year first, so all other rotations have seemed like cake after I think if you keep the communication open and work together each rotation to adjust to and fix whatever bumps you hit, you can do anything. I'm not saying it is easy. My DH and I are working on the communication right now as we hit the, Whats next bump, but you can't let other's people's stories scare you.

[corn poffi]

I think the reason that you didn't get much of a response is because burnout isn't speciality-specific. Burnout is burnout. It's horrible and depends on the person, the rotation, the specialty, the program, the hospital, colleagues, nursing staff, coping techiques, and other obligations.

[Bittersweet]

Hi! My DH is a PGY4 cards fellow planning to do EP. I don't really have much insight to offer at this point. He's doing research now and life is pretty slack/wonderful. However, he has done one month on-service with regular call and it wasn't bad and was generally better than being an IM resident. That seems to be the consensus here, anyway. He tells me that the EP cardiology attendings that he works closely with are happy and have a good life/work balance. Time will tell, I suppose

ETA: He hasn't experienced burnout or career regret BUT he's also only a PGY4 and currently working mostly 8:00 - 5:00 with a few moonlighting shifts here and there. It's easy to be happy right now.

[WolfpackWife]

Hi! My DH is a PGY4 cards fellow planning to do EP. I don't really have much insight to offer at this point. He's doing research now and life is pretty slack/wonderful. However, he has done one month on-service with regular call and it wasn't bad and was generally better than being an IM resident. That seems to be the consensus here, anyway. He tells me that the EP cardiology attendings that he works closely with are happy and have a good life/work balance. Time will tell, I suppose

ETA: He hasn't experienced burnout or career regret BUT he's also only a PGY4 and currently working mostly 8:00 - 5:00 with a few moonlighting shifts here and there.

That's encouraging! Thanks for responding! I'm going to try to keep in touch so I can hear how it's going. DH and I both used to work at a hospital in different departments and I actually got quite a bit of face time with cards fellows in the program and while they worked ALL THE TIME, they were all seemed happy and one of the women even had two kids (the second of whom was born during her fellowship)...I figured it couldn't be too grueling if she was able to give birth twice, have some semblance of maternity leave, and still raise her kids and do kid activities with them! Not that we're planning on having kids at all and if we did it would probably be post-training...

Also, disclaimer: the burnout and cardiology question weren't exactly meant to be hand-in-hand. I sort of combined the two but I also wanted to get the burnout articles on here so share if anyone was interested.

[Bittersweet]

That's encouraging! Thanks for responding! I'm going to try to keep in touch so I can hear how it's going.

Oh definitely, sorry I missed your earlier post. It sounds like you have access to some local cards people. However, feel free to PM me if have any questions, especially as you guys get closer to choosing a residency program, etc. DH loves what he does and loves talking all things heart/EP/research, so I'm sure he would be happy to talk to your DH, too.

[Auspicious]

Since I feel bad about bitching about pathology this week and biting the hand that feeds me and all, I wanted to jump back to this thread from last week and say I was not at all surprised to see pathology at the bottom of the burned-out list. Some other chart I saw somewhere also showed pathology with one of the highest average ages of physicians in practice. DNR = do not retire. One day you'll find them slumped over at the scope and then they might be done, and even then, please bury them with the scope, if possible.

Basically, most work reasonable hours, it's not very physically demanding, there's usually almost no patient contact so you don't have their b.s. but you still have the satisfaction of helping them, since it's diagnostics the patients can't undo your hard work, and I think the biggie is you get better and better at it the longer you do it, almost indefinitely. Plenty of septuagenarians seem almost psychic when it comes to diagnosis. And to hear older pathologists tell it, it hits a mental sweet spot where once you get good at it it's not too stressful but it remains very intellectually interesting, so you're not even fighting boredom as you shamble into old age. They're all like "why would I quit?"

I think a lot of the things on their list of causes of burnout are either things pathologists have a high tolerance for (bureaucracy) or that don't apply to pathology (compassion fatigue).

All that said, still about 1/3 report burnout, and they ranked highly on severity of burnout. I think they tend to be very literal about these things, and aren't going to say they're burned out until they are very definitively burnt. There was another poll that asked doctors if they were rich, and the specialty with the highest number of yeses was pathology. I asked my husband what was up with that, and he said the pathologist is the person who's going to be like "I'm in the top couple of percent of American incomes, I make several times what the average worker does, must check box 'yes.'"



That's all. Just didn't want to be all negative. Frustration with the job market: high. But frustration with the work and the lifestyle: low.