New to Neurosurg!

Hi, i'm new to the website, and thrilled to find it! I am girlfriend to a neurosugery resident in Pittsburgh, PA. We are in the final stretch of B's jr. year (2nd of 7), and it has been difficult, to say the least!

B is from Reno, NV. and I moved from San Francisco, CA. 2 years ago. I had never experienced real season changes, let alone winter! and I was trying to build a clientelle in Pilates personal training in a place that had hardly heard of mind-body fitness. We bought a house last September and acquired a puppy, Blue and a kitten, Flurry. I made some friends, tried my hardest not to cry daily and somehow we have forged an inkling of a life!

B's schedule is insane. His department actually staged a six week period where they pretended to work 80 hours a week for the residency inspection! This year he has averaged 100-120 hours a week easily, with at least 2 in-house calls, maybe 3 or 4, a week. For the next 2 months he will be on-call in-house every other day. Is this legal? To make me feel like I'm the insane one, he hardly ever complains!

I have found that there are several things that didn't make me jump off one of Pittsburgh's thousand bridges: friends--my own--people I met all on my lonesome! 8) carrying on some semblance of my own career--a job that belongs to me and requires my head to stop bleating to soak in home sickness, feelings of being an alien from mars, and the ever present devilish fiend "we're not going to make it" and lastlly: urging, proding, pulling my beloved B back from the depths of the constant ICU beeps and call-room comas and OR neverlands to a part of himself that will remember what life is like beyond hospital walls. how?

It took a lot of crying at first, but then I got stronger and realized I'm here because I choose to be---no one is making me. If we work on communicating and supporting each other then it becomes a duel effort to get through, not just a one-sided one. I'm not sure if there are any answers to how you make it through but if there are any can you shed some light! I want to be the kind of spouse who grows out this experience, not disappears into the void of "doctor's wife"! and I want to be an educated supporter, not one who cries herself to sleep at night because he fell asleep, once again, while we were talking. I do feel that there's a certain responsibility to myself, and as the non-medical member of our relationship, to push us to keep growing and reaching for success as a couple---i.e. talking, playing, working on the house, taking dog for walks, working out, travelling, sex, challenging ourselves...etc. ---
or am i just in denial? do i have to put all of this on hold until training is over????? :argue:
this is a place where i insert "does anyone have any advice?"
thanks for listening! happy to be aboard! :!

[SuzySunshine]

Ciel,
Welcome to the boards - my DH is finishing his intern year and will start his neurosurgery years (2-7) in June. There are a few of us neurosurgery spouses on here. We actually moved to Minnesota from California last June so I know what you mean about the weather. While we're from the midwest being back into winter took some getting used to.

My husband is lucky enough to belong to a program that follows the 88 hour (they have an exemption) work week mostly so I luckily don't have the 100+ experience you have. With that said any relationship takes work in this field. I love it when people say "neurosurgery has the highest divorce rate of residencies", thanks very much I didn't need any more negative information.

One friend put it best when she said "you plan for him not to be there and if he is be pleasantly surprised", that seems like a negative motto to live by but it works. It allows you to plan your own life, schedule your own things and enjoy the time when they are home. We have a puppy that will be 10 months next week so she keeps me company, I work a full time job and I try to get together with other neurosurg wives at least once a month if not more.

Bottom line its a hard specialty (most are) but if you have a positive attitude and create your own life it can be done. My DH and I have been together for almost 8 years and married for almost 3, even with all the crap we've been through in the last 10 months and we'll go through in the next 75 months I can't imagine being without him and I think that is what it takes to make it in this specialty.

Good luck and welcome aboard there are some great supporters on this site as well.

[Flynn]

Advice? Try and exist in "survival mode" all the time, expect nothing, and be pleasantly surprised when anything else happens. Also, be good to yourself because if you don't....it gets worse quick if you deny yourself some simple pleasures due to being depressed about your situation.

We finished up General surgery residency (5 years plus 2 lab years) last year and are in the home stretch of the first of two years for a CT fellowship. It was an awful way to live and I comiserate with you on every level but you can get through it with some dedication and a little luck.

It's hard to do everything and get almost nothing back. By the way your program sounds like it is in HUGE violation of the rules regarding hours. I know you have to average 80 hour work weeks for the month and have at least one full 24 hour period off per week on average. Not happening in your program? Sigh.

Now that I think about it, I might be wrong...does anyone know the exact rules regarding hours in a residency program?

Hang in there, come here often and good luck.

[SuzySunshine]

I beleive you are correct Flynn. 24 hours off every seven days, averaged over 4 weeks. 10 hours between shifts, and 80 hours/week averaged over 4 weeks. My husband had one three week stretch that really sucked because we were taking the 4th week off for vacation and of course that fits into the "average."

There are ways to report programs annonymounsly, check out the AMA site.

[houseelf]

Welcome and congrats for making it this far!

Kelly

.

I love it when people say "neurosurgery has the highest divorce rate of residencies", thanks very much I didn't need any more negative information

.

Cheri, Thank you for your kind response! I know what you mean about discouraging info from others! I've actually had people I don't even know come up to me and say "you're with a neurosurgeon? leave him! he'll never be there!" I've been doing some poking around to find those who are in successful relationships and finding out how they did it! Really, it's more than the speacialty or even the career--it has to be the connection between 2 people; like you said--you couldn't imagine being with out him! Cheers to you!

The challenging moments are defintely when you make plans, and yet again, he has fallen asleep on the couch in his scrubs! I finally said, don't make plans with me at all, i can't take the pain of being "let down" again and again. He feels awful, but i guess that's the way it has to be. pleasantly surprised! But i also don't want to lower my expecations so low that he can get away with lazy murder! They have to be responsible for maintaining something sacred in their lives--right??

Nice to meet you! Thanks again....

But, now we're almost done ( ) and I have to admit that the time has gone kinda quickly. There are always bumps in the road, and I expect there always will be. But, keeping myself busy with the kids and teaching from time to time, and my sporadic doula work has kept me sane. I have found it challenging to get DH involved in the "outside" world, and I think that is also very important to maintain a balance.

:>

Wow! It's so nice to talk to others in the same situations! We don't have kids yet, but we do have a puppy who just turned 1, and he has been some piece of work! I'm so glad that i invested my time into him--all of sudden i had a loving creature to be there when B was not, to get me outside in the dead of winter (huge deal!) and to make me feel safe, even if sometimes insane! I give all of you props for taking on families and careers--it is inspiring to hear such strong voices coming back with positive stories! Thank you!

It's hard to do everything and get almost nothing back. By the way your program sounds like it is in HUGE violation of the rules regarding hours. I know you have to average 80 hour work weeks for the month and have at least one full 24 hour period off per week on average. Not happening in your program? Sigh.

Flynn & Cheri---Thanks again for the comments on legal hours---unfortunately I think because of other sr. resident's vacations, conferences, stints at children's hospital,etc., that his in house call is so brutal. for the next 2 months (he's taking a vacation in may, however) he'll be on-call ever other night! that's out the door at 4am, home at 6 or 7pm next day....that's really only 8 hrs between shifts. most of the time when this happens he only gets the rest of sunday off when the week of calls is done...weekends he'll get home around 10am. sigh.

it may be a good idea to look into AMA.... :>

[Flynn]

It's the program's responsibility to keep to the 80 hour work week regardless of vacations and other responsibilities of the attendings.

Your program is IN HUGE VIOLATION. HUGE. What they are doing is illegal.

Look into the AMA site. I would!!!!!!!!!! Report them. Nothing will change until people stop taking the crap that this field feels "entitled" to dish out.

The schedule you described is inhuman.