China's new adoption restrictions

[SuzySunshine]

I guess I have a hard time swallowing these from a country that still limits their citizens to the number of children and therefore have caused the vast number of orphans in the first place.

I can kind of see where they're coming from on the age one (I can see how an older couple that never had children could adopt so that someone could take care of them later), but the BMI and depression (especially the depression) are out of line IMO.

We got into a discussion about international adoptions at DH's aunts' that is the only one that asked us the question over the holidays. She couldn't understand why so many americans would rather adopt internationally, it was eye opening to say the least.

[Sheherezade]

I guess I think that a country has a right to establish their own adoption policies. The US has plenty of adoption rules for our unwanted kids as well. In fact, the people I know that have gone through adoption of older abandoned foster kids here in the US (via social services) have said it was MUCH worse than their experience with the foreign process (China). Lots of hoops, home studies, psych evaluations, etc.

I also think that Korea has had a weight restriction for years. I thought that was strange when I first heard it - but again - their kids, their rules.

It's horrible to have all these little kids with no homes - and read about homes that are so anxious to have a child. I wish their was an easier way to hook the two parties up - but understand the need for lots of caution.

It's funny that living in Boston for a few years exposed us to every manner of adoption. South America, Korea, China, Russia and US adoptions all on the same block in the same year. And there, I was the "young" mom - at 36.

[SuzySunshine]

In fact, the people I know that have gone through adoption of older abandoned foster kids here in the US (via social services) have said it was MUCH worse than any foreign process. Lots of hoops, home studies, psych evaluations, etc.

THAT is exactly what we couldn't convince DH's aunt of - she couldn't understand why people wouldn't want to adopt in the US. I have a set of friends who have three adopted boys (and had a girl taken away from them after 24 hours b/c mom changed her mind), people who haven't been through it or know someone who has usually have NO idea what goes into the adoption process.

The US has plenty of adoption rules for our unwanted kids as well. In fact, the people I know that have gone through adoption of older abandoned foster kids here in the US (via social services) have said it was MUCH worse than their experience with the foreign process (China). Lots of hoops, home studies, psych evaluations, etc.

Yet any nitwit w/a functioning reproductive system can "parent" a child (or several as is usually the case), and have it returned to them over and over again in the face of insane behavior.

[mommax3]

In regards to jesher's post.....check this out.

3-year-old boy found running on I-465
Motorists stop to help child who escaped his apartment; mother charged with neglect

By Rob Schneider
rob.schneider@indystar.com

Troy Crady figures guardian angels must have had something to do with sparing Damon Dyer.

The 3-year-old, wearing only a diaper and T-shirt, was found running in the middle of the slow lane of northbound I-465 Saturday morning -- and an unaware Crady, speeding by in his 1-ton flatbed, easily could have run into him.
If that had happened, the consequences would have been horrific.
"It would have been like taking a Chihuahua out with this big truck," the Indianapolis man said.
The boy survived unscathed, but for a few tense moments, at least a half-dozen cars and a big rig swerved into other lanes to avoid the barefoot child.
Miles away, Senior State Trooper Cedric Merritt gunned his cruiser toward the scene on the city's Northwestside after calls came in on the State Police emergency line just before 9 a.m., reporting a baby on the interstate.
When Merritt heard the first reports, the 12-year veteran could only think, "Wow."
The incident led to the arrest of the boy's mother on two charges of child neglect after Merritt found she wasn't aware that her son had slipped out of her apartment.
The second charge related to the discovery of a second child eating spaghetti off the floor, police said. Officers said they also found trash in the apartment and feces on the walls.
Before Merritt reached the scene, several startled motorists had stopped to help the boy.
Crady, who drives the truck for his job at Garage Doors of Indianapolis, was running late for an appointment when he spotted cars and the semi ahead of him suddenly pulling out of the slow lane about a half-mile south of 56th Street.
"(The) semi was right behind him," Crady said.
The truck's driver had braked, and other cars moved into the left lanes to pass the semi. When Crady flew past, he looked to the right, and "there was this little boy just a-hoofing it down the slow lane barefooted."
Like several other motorists, Crady stopped and ran toward the child. A woman wrapped him in a sweater because he was shivering, but otherwise "he was just happy-go-lucky," looking like "the world is a great place," Crady said.
"He had no clue he came within a hair of losing his life this morning," said Crady, 41. "He had somebody looking out for him."
Hoping to find where the boy lived, Merritt, joined by Child Protective Services workers, went to the nearby Scarborough Lake Apartments. An assistant apartment manager directed them to the Dyer family's unit.
Their arrival woke Nancy Dyer up.
"Oh, he got out again," Merritt said she told him after hearing about her son's escape.
Dyer, who moved here from Florida about six months ago, told police she doesn't hear the children after she falls asleep on their one bed and had last seen Damon and her daughter, Gabriel, 2, just after midnight. Dyer told police she often used boxes to secure the apartment's door because Damon is able to unlock it, Merritt said. Whether she did so Friday night was unclear.
Merritt said Indianapolis police earlier last week were summoned to the area after the boy was seen running around a parking lot near his home unattended.
Police weren't sure how the boy got onto the interstate, but one of the motorists who stopped told Crady he had seen Damon climbing over a fence.
Crady wondered how anyone could pay so little attention to a child. "He could have very easily just ended up as a bloodstain on I-465."
Hitting him "would have destroyed my life. I would never have been the same person again."

This happened fairly close to where I live, and VERY close to where we lived when DH was in medical school. I have driven that stretch of highway many times, and it is a miracle this little boy wasn't killed. The average speed through there is at LEAST 65 mph. I hope those kids don't go back to that mother.

Sally

[Auspicious]

Huh, the NYTimes is the only place I've seen this item mentioned:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/19/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss

And a prospective adoptive family’s net worth must now exceed $80,000.

That would be what would close China to us and more people than the BMI=40 thing, I imagine, but it seems barely mentioned--buried in the NYT article and not mentioned at all in the other articles I've read. I wonder if the 80K is before or after you've paid for the adoption, because that will certainly make a dent.

I don't think the age restriction is that out of line. Friends of ours have started the process to adopt from China for a second time. Even though there are the home studies and hoops to jump through, they would prefer that over the US process. I don't blame them.

Nepal has some unusual rules as well -- the adoptive parents have to be considered infertile and if they already have children can only adopt a child of the other gender. So if a couple has a boy and girl and then can no longer have children they would not be able to adopt but they would be able to if they had 2 girls (adopt a boy) or 2 boys.

[SuzySunshine]

What exactly falls into net worth though? If you own a home I would think that would be easy to meet on the house alone.

ETA: I wonder if some of these regulations aren't coming out now that gay/lesbian divorces are happening more (especially the single comment). I saw a story the other day about a lesbian couple that was divorcing and they were having a custody battle over the adopted child (I think she was from China or Korea) because only one mothers' name was on the adoption paperwork but the other said that was because of regulations at the time and that they both raised her.

[alison]

Cheri, I heard on the news that the couple has to make a combined income at least 80,000.

[PrincessFiona]

Ummm...in relation to the child neglect thing, I think we should all silently note "there but for the grace of god go I...."

Color me nitwit, but...

When Aidan was 1, I picked up Alex from Kindergarten. DH was home for the day and we settled the boys on the sofa while we sat in the kitchen with a cup of coffee. The boys were watching a kid's movie and dh looked at them sitting together hugging and said "look, how cute". We then picked up our conversation and a few minutes later (10??) the doorbell rang.

I went to the door and noticed the neighbor from the end of our cul-de-sac. She had a naked (except for a diaper) baby on her hip and I remember thinking as I opened the door ("When did Deb have a baby?"). I looked at her and she said "KRIS" I couldn't imagine what she was so excited about. I didn't even recognize that it was Aidan because I had just SEEN him in the family room with Alex and couldn't imagine how on earth he would have gotten out.

Keep in mind, dh and I are both educated, caring parents and we were sitting about 8 feet from Aidan and Alex. We simply had started talking with each other and got lost in the conversation.

When I realized it, I was mortified. Aidan had literally stripped his clothing off and for the first time ever, had opened the door leading to the garage all by himself. (Ummm, do you celebrate that milestone after he escapes???) Our garage door was open and he just walked on out. It was Fall and quite chilly and he could have fallen down a grate in the street, down someone's stairwell or been hit by a car. I was beside myself for DAYS...DAYS. We had just seen him and I had no clue that he had snuck out. I bought our neighbor a dozen roses and cried over this for 2 DAYS...and it was an accident and nothing happened.

I feel sorry for the mom who was arrested. It was morning. She was sleeping and her toddler escaped the house.

BTW...when I was 3 I did the same thing, but I stripped down to bare...nothingness, got a chair and slid it up against the door and unlatched it and ran in my birthday suit down the back alley. My mom's friend saw me and called my mom and woke her up. "Lois, do you know where Kristen is?" "Yes, she's sleeping." "No, she's neckade in my kitchen"

Of course, that's a total thread hijack.

Kris

[PrincessFiona]

I think I killed the thread with my neuroses! :>

Yeah Kris - but you didn't say "Oh - he got out again." and / or have another kid eating spaghetti on the floor, and I'm PRETTY sure you didn't have feces on the wall.

My kids have "escaped" on a couple occasions - one could have been ugly. But I've taken measures to prevent the same from happening again - namely having a security system installed that beeps every time an outside door opens.

Most stories are a thin line between "what the hell" and "but for the grace of god go i" ... it's the details that make the difference.

[mommax3]

Kris,

I too have had escapees, don't get me wrong. Some of the escapes were funny, and one in particular was horrifying. So I do know that things like this can happen, but I think this is worse than just momentary inattention.

The thing that got me about this case is the general state of the apartment where this child (and his sister) were living, and the fact that the mother's first response was "Oh, he got out AGAIN". And he was not just playing in the street in front of his house. He was running on the beltway around Indianapolis! I also saw a picture of the mother in the paper and on the news, and she looked like every picture I have ever seen of a meth addict.

If she can't keep those kids safe, she shouldn't have them.

[DCJenn]

Re: Foreign Adoption restrictions-

Much like most of my take on life, my persepective is that these people allowed me to adopt one of their Nationals to raise as my own. They can dictate whatever rules they want. Imagine how fiesty Americans would get if we allowed our kids to be adopted by Chinese or Russian families. We not only had to provide proof of a home, (with pictures), but proof of income, all of our documents (birth certificates, marriage license, my divorce decree, our homestudy, etc., etc., etc.- all notarized and apostiled) plus we had to travel twice.

American foster to adopt rules are nightmarish, but it is significantly less expensive. American infant domestic adoptions are as much as ours and the birth mother often gets to dictate the terms. That alone was our primary reason for going overseas. I don't want the birth mom looking across the dining room table at me every Christmas.

Our total cost was 45k once travel was added in. (and let's not forget the cash to the lady in the bathrobe in Moscow) Friend who adopted from Korea averaged about half that because they didn't have to go to Korea. Friends who adopted from China also had to travel but only once.

Nikolai was and continues to be a Russian citizen and as a result we are required to file social work conducted reports once a year. With pictures. I have absolutely NO problem with that at all. Some people get all pissy about it but I think it's fine. I'd want to do the same for an American kid.

Obviously lot of people should have written follow along. (and if anyone wants to bet, the Indiana woman is a Meth head. 10-1 odds)

Jenn

[Cumberland]

About the BMI thing, I saw a documentary on TLC about an 800lb woman who had surgery and dropped 200lbs. Her husband had to take care of all her needs bc she was incapable due to her weight. They had an adopted daugher from China as well. I can see how that might have been an issue to the Chinese adoption officials who saw that.