Raising "can't do" kids?

Embroidered? Oh my. We had a kindergarten project that had the kids decorating dolls of themselves. Somehow I doubt that one of the kids cut out fabric clothing with a decorated edge.

Just to clarify -- this project did assume parental involvement but specified being "kid directed". Still, I think the requirements were too involved to have it as kid directed as it should be. A less-involved project similar to the diorama she did a few months ago was better suited to 1st grade, IMO.

I'm wondering (not having had any of these assignments yet here) if perhaps the teacher expectations are lower than what the parents' more educated mind jumps to. If the kid who did a graph on what time of day he can shoot more basketball goals was the winner, perhaps the teacher was going for something more simplistic? Therefore the projects that had more of a parent-driven hypothesis were marked lower??

I don't know - just trying to make sense.

[Sheherezade]

All of our children's projects are done at school, even in the middle school so the parents really can't have much input. In fourth grade we are threatened within an inch of our lives that we are not to touch our childrens binders. Its good but a bit much.

Here too. It must be in the new playbook. Fourth grade was very hard on all the parents. :>

[mommax3]

perhaps the teacher expectations are lower than what the parents' more educated mind jumps to.

I think that this may sometimes be the case (SnowWhite's example of the embroidered bell comes to mind!) and I do think there is a difference between guidance and helping too much. I think I would probably talk to the teacher and get clarification if the assignment was vague or seemed to be out of reach for my child. Sometimes, too, the teacher is just wanting the child to start the process of researching, etc., but isn't expecting the whole nine yards that became second nature to all of us later in our educations.

My pet peeve is the art-y type project. I am not a crafty gal, and consequently, my kids are not big into crafts, either. Dioramas and the like are totally on my kids (and on DH, if he has time) because I would rather stick a fork in my eye than consider how to turn a shoe box (if we even have one ) into a forest ecosystem, or how to build a model of an igloo. Both recent assignments here......both due the week before Christmas. WTH???? I am still bitter.
I didn't like projects like that in school, and I'll be darned if I do them as an adult! Give me a paper to write any day.

Sally

[PrincessFiona]

I'm wondering (not having had any of these assignments yet here) if perhaps the teacher expectations are lower than what the parents' more educated mind jumps to. If the kid who did a graph on what time of day he can shoot more basketball goals was the winner, perhaps the teacher was going for something more simplistic? Therefore the projects that had more of a parent-driven hypothesis were marked lower??

I don't know - just trying to make sense.

I don't know, Jenn. What was exciting about that project was that it had a basketball hoop attached and a basketball on the table...and the kids, teachers, etc go to "toss hoops". It...wasn't a kid-driven project board from what I could see., but it was clearly the most popular project in the room. Our neighbor who did a "how many times can I do a cartwheel in a row" didn't do well at all....and that was also a kid-driven project.

Andrew did come up with his own project, his own math questions, arranged to go into a teacher's classroom and administer the math tests..He found the music to take, tested the decibels, administered all 3 tests at diff decibels, graded his tests, and found his own averages.

He typed his own data and printed it out. I just helped him put it onto the board. He was specifically criticized for his board not being decorative enough. I also showed him how to use microsoft excel to find averages, etc..and I taught him how to do it...I didn't do it for him. We had a blast. It was about learning in my eyes. We had fun doing it....but I didn't do it for him.

Apparently, it's ok if your parents help you make things super-arty..but not if they show you how to use microsoft excel. I taught Andrew how to enter things, copy them and create graphs AND he can do it on his own.

Do I think that the teacher was turned off by my help? Possibly. Unfortunately, science is something I do know a little about. Andrew, btw, doesn't get my help in geography (where I really suck, btw!). His maps are alwasy dead-on accurate but he gets 1 letter grade down-graded for his artwork. He's not...very arty....He includes everything and doesn't get down-graded at all for his factual details. He has yet to get an A on one of the maps...and the only comment ever is about the appearance. He doesn't turn in wrinkled maps..they aren't stained or anything...but his handwriting isn't terribly neat and he doesn't color terribly well. I am sure that if I jumped in and colored them for him (or touched them up) he'd get A's.

Andrew also makes his own power point projects and has his own website that he's developing (as does Amanda). They obviously have gotten my help with this stuff but then are slowly taking off on their own. I made them start with geocities (for example) and now we're slowly moving beyond that. I don't think any of that is wrong. Will that be a problem when they get to the upper grades and start working on that kind of stuff?

But...I guess I do value education a lot...possibly because I was raised as a military brat and there are a lot of holes in my education as a direct result of switching schools and the dept. of defense schools....It really hurt me and I don't want that for my children.

We do a lot of stuff at home. I think that kids should learn to use the card catalog and the library computer search. I'm turned off by the fact that my children (even my 1st grader) have been taught to use google first.

So...I make my kids do ...research projects at home....and we use the public library and the librarian. My children get to pick their topic. Andrew's last one was the origin of the universe, Amanda did tornadoes and Alex did turtles. We have fun doing it together...the kids get to research a topic of interest to them...and I feel good that they are learning how to research a topic without google....maybe I *should* just homeschool. But...I would never be a good homeschooling mom. I'm not consistent enough.

Long ramble...sorry
kris

[Sheherezade]

Kris, the more you explain it, the more I see this as a problem with this teacher.

It wouldn't be hard for the teacher to bring up messy handwriting and separate out that issue from all the other work. I don't see why that isn't done. (Believe me, I know about kids with messy handwriting!) Most of DS's teacher's have done that. They make notes on the side about a need to be neater, but never grade him poorly for it unless it was totally incomprehensible. Then, the issue is that you need to make your thoughts known in order to get them graded. Neatness is not the same as ability. (Most of DS's things are typed now due to his handwriting difficulties - and it is in his "file" so maybe that helps?)

Maybe the teacher resents you? DO you sense that over the science bit? I've seen it happen. Maybe that's why this is bugging you so much? Or is it just the sporty kids/jock culture kings stuff? We have a bit of that here too, and it is like High School Part II. Luckily, most of the parents and teachers realize that --- but it still seeps in from time to time.

[PrincessFiona]

Angie,

I've never met the teacher officially. We wouldn't know each other if we were locked in an elevator together. I think I've only seen him2 or 3 times in passing and I only realized who he was because Andrew said "that's Mr. so and so.."
....Here, once the kids hit 6th grade, the individual teachers don't respond to you and you get to have conferences with the homeroom teacher who sees the kids for 20 minutes/day in the morning.

[Sheherezade]

Oh....so no hostility then. Of course, it is less than ideal. I don't think the conference system is great when they start to change classes, is it? I know my son's teachers, but only because they are so nice and receptive. If they wanted to avoid parents it would be very easy.

Did you ask about the project - - under the guise of better understanding the system next time out? Andrew didn't understand his grade - so what should he have done differently? If it is all about presentation, then I'd just focus on that with Andrew and let him know that his work was good - but the neatness issue got him. Did they give back a grading rubric?

[PrincessFiona]

He got a grading *rubric* of sorts back. He was docked for how artful his board was a couple of points, for a "I have some questions about your discussion (or results...now I can't remember" with no specific question asked or specific problem...and that was all that was on the rubric. Ultimately, he got a B and that's fine.

I don't think I'd go to the teacher and ask because I wouldn't want to be one of *those* moms.

Ultimately, Andrew dealt with it much better than I did. He just blows it off

kris

[Meenah]

I haven't read all of the posts carefully, but just want to add that one of my sisters teaches 4th grade and she sends home grades routinely that look like this (when she is pretty sure the parents did most of the work).

Johnny C+
Mom & Dad A-

She said it works wonders

[PrincessFiona]

You and your sister sound a lot alike

There are some great thoughts expressed in this thread. I'm really going to step back and do some thinking...

kris