Schools

Public Education in America sucks.

I am being an @## in this post just to get the debate going a bit. I think our education system is the worst aspect of our country. We have No Child Left Behind, a lot of kids in preschools, etc. . .and quite honestly, people don't seem that much smarter (particularly compared to Europe). I am admittedly relying on the news media and message boards like this one for my "evidence" but public schools seem like a nightmare that I would love for my kids to avoid. I read an article yesterday about some gym teacher in Sacramento who made her 5th grade students run a ridiculous number of laps (for their age, I'm assuming) and some of the children were sick after class. Then you read about the teasing and the bullying, the art/music/PE budget cuts, the unchallenging curriculum, and so forth. I just don't think you "need" to go through that experience to be a strong, contributing member of society.

So, anyway, I would love nothing more than for some of you ladies to prove me wrong and tell me what *is* so great about our education system. . .because this has me really bummed lately.

BTW, Kelly, get the universal preschool debate going! I would love to hear more about it!

[Flynn]

This will all be too general for my liking but that's the best I can do right now.

I think "generally" public schools in our country are not as sucessful as private schools for a variety of reasons -- control, funding and parental support are three huge issues here.

I think one of the reasons public schools fail is due to how we as society feel about education and how parenting has somehow become a quest to "be your kid's best friend."

Sucessful schools -- public OR private have common themes:

• control over curriculum
  adults (teachers/ administrators)who work hard and have high expectations
  well funded programs/schools
  parents WHO ARE VERY involved (in a healthy way )
  kids who understand that there are consequences in this world -- you screw up and get caught, bad things happen (parents will NOT bail you out and/or the school will not allow parents to bail student out)

It's much easier to accomplish this list in a private school IMO.

Public schools have to take every kid....for a long long long time. It's almost difficult to be expelled these days. That's not the schools fault. It's the system. Public schools have to deal with parents who threaten to sue for the dumbest things. Schools can't afford silly legal action and sometimes cave (not right IMO) rather than be written up in the paper OR lose what little funds they have.

We are behind in curriculum compared to many other countries. However, the schools that do try and raise standards, come up with different ways to asses and pass kids on to other grades get RIPPED because parents freak when Johnny isn't "getting it." It's fine to raise standards until Johnny so and so gets held back and their parents have money...and and and.

Curriculum is a huge issue. Testing or assesment is a huge issue. Until people in this country can agree we're horribly behind, dig in and accept the pain that comes from revamping a broken system -- nothing is going to radically improve across the board. Some public schools will stay excellent, some will stay sub-par. The rich neighborhoods will have the better public schools.

Bla bla bla.

[houseelf]

ACK! This is an enormous, multi-faceted issue and my mom is flying in in less than an hour.... I'm going to cut to the chase and put my more controversial thoughts out there (and then leave for a week without checking in while my mom visits )

I think that there should be a national dialogue about extending "free" education to at least four year olds. The kindergarten that we went to vs. what is expected today are two totally different beasts. Even if universal preschool is only a couple a days a week and focuses on things like socialization, becoming accustomed to schedules, introduction to educational concepts, etc., I'm all for it. IMHO, the lack of preschool for the underprivileged only serves to widen the existing educational gap between the classes.
Second, I'm going to lay it on the line and express what has been an unpopular opinion in the past. I support school choice vis a vis vouchers. Google Milton Friedman and read his much more eloquent views on this subject. To boil it down, choice is a good thing. Schools become more competitive to attract families, families can choose what aspects of education are most important, and a sluggish layer of bureacracy is removed. Whatever social program the Government tries to engage typically goes to pot in comparison with the forces of the free market. Families no longer need to chase that golden dollar to get into the right neighborhood for the right school. Equal opportunity feels like less of a hollow statement.

There, flame away. Totally kidding, but do feel free to disagree with me. I realize that this is a bit radical. Besides, I'll be back to check in next week after any ensuing bruhaha occurs.

Kelly

[Flynn]

Second, I'm going to lay it on the line and express what has been an unpopular opinion in the past. I support school choice vis a vis vouchers. Google Milton Friedman and read his much more eloquent views on this subject. To boil it down, choice is a good thing. Schools become more competitive to attract families, families can choose what aspects of education are most important, and a sluggish layer of bureacracy is removed. Whatever social program the Government tries to engage typically goes to pot in comparison with the forces of the free market. Families no longer need to chase that golden dollar to get into the right neighborhood for the right school. Equal opportunity feels like less of a hollow statement.

I think vouchers are a great idea in theory. They will push some schools to do better, be better. I completely agree with this.

The flip side is that regardless of how much choice a person has, there is a LARGE number of parents who don't have the time, tools, or anything else on the ball to fill out the paperwork that will be required to "choose" your school. It will help kids who have choices due to the family they were born into. It will leave out the truly poor, destitute, and lost kids.

Second, it's a funding nightmare. The districts would have to hire a whole new staff to crunch the numbers. That costs money. Schools with serious enrollment issues still need to pay the salaries of the teachers and administrators. It's a surefire way to make some schools cease to exist -- quickly. Some districts base funding on enrollement now anyway.

[Flynn]

Mandatory pre-school sounds good to me.

Practically though it's never going to happen my friend.

Why? -- to expensive. This country has trouble funding crappy schools and programs that don't work. The masses in this country would NEVER vote for more taxes to pay for this.

Now if your idea was for a new sports stadium...this country would probably vote YES in a minute. What's WRONG with us???

[Flynn]

Mandatory pre-school sounds good to me.

Why does this sound good to you? I would rather have my preschooler home with me than in the school system. Not to mention the fact that the last thing this country needs is another poorly run government agency.

What I should have said is "free pre-school" to those who cannot afford it should be implemented. All children should be able to go to pre-school -- not just people who are doing "okay" or better financially. I like that pre-school is a choice not a requirement. Sorry I was so vague.

I have no problem with the voucher system or some type of open enrollment where parents can choose what school their child attends.

Even if it benefits all the kids who have advocates anyway and screws everyone else?

What bothers me most about our district is it's Big Brother/we know what's best for your child attitude. The teachers are awesome, just really great people but the administration is so patronizing and all the administrators have talking points. Its like they went to some political advisor to learn how to handle the public. This summer when I was on the principal hiring committee, we made a reccomendation for one person and the superintendent over-ruled the committee and chose her own person. We were actually called into a meeting and told that we were not to say anything about this and then basically given a line to say about how great this new hire is. Talk about Big Brother.

All that said, if I wasn't so involved I may not realize all the crap that goes on behind the scenes. Just more of familiarity breeding contempt.

If businesses were run like public schools they'd go under. Districts I have worked in have so many good things going for them....then they'd shoot themselves in the foot with a BONEHEAD hire (for usually a BIG positoin) OR make a financial move that makes you shake your head.

[Flynn]

By the way Tara, good for you for getting involved.
Seriously if more parents were like you, the schools would be better run.

[diggitydot]

While I'm not necessarily in favor of "mandatory" preschools, (meaning all kids MUST attend one), but I do think mandatory funding for kids who do attend preschools is a phenomenal idea.

Some kids do exceptionally well without the benefit of preschool. Our two eldest never attended preschool. Granted, they're both very social, easy going, and deal well with change. Currently, they're both in specialized classes for doing much above grade level work. Now, our son on the other hand, is a kid who benefits greatly from preschool. He didn't have quite the same traits as his sisters so learning these things in preschool is a real need for him.

I think a LOT of the issues with our schools come from less than involved parents. And the whole "Gee, I have to be their buddy" thing just kills me. I don't get it. I'm not here to be their friend. They'll have lots of friends in their life, but I'm their only mom. My job is to make the unpopular decisions that they're usually not going to like. I'm pretty sure at some point in their lives, my kids will hate me. Oh, well...comes with the territory. I'm okay with that.

[madeintaiwan]

As some one else stated I think the main issue is lack of parental involvement. I am a product of public school ( a crappy public school at that) and yet I still made it to college AND graduated. I had struggles along the way but my mother was ALWAYS involved in my education. Even though she worked 2 jobs 6.5 days a week she still made time for my education and worked double shifts to pay for tutors when I needed them. I took all the AP classes that my school offered and studied my butt off to do well on the SATs. My three step cousins live very privileged lives (decent public school, aunt "works" from home, uncle doesn't need to work anymore, access to resources ect) yet one of them barely graduated from HS last year and the other one is barely going to graduate this year and my aunt's reply is, "you can't make them do their work if they don't want to." A crappy public school is not ideal but parental involvement can make or break a child in any system.