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"Poof!...He's A Terrorist"

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  • "Poof!...He's A Terrorist"

    He says it better than I could...

    From:
    God, Faith, and a Pen: The Official Blog of Dr. Hesham A. Hassaballa http://drhassaballa.blogspot.com/200...terrorist.html

    Thursday, February 15, 2007
    Poof!...He's A Terrorist!

    In the Name of God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful

    On Monday February 12, a teenager went on a shooting rampage in a Salt Lake City, Utah shopping mall, shooting 9 people and fatally wounding five of them. It was an horrific act of violence, and my heart and prayers go out to the families of the victims of this terrible crime.

    The shooter, who was shot dead by police, was identified as Sulejman Talovic, a Bosnian immigrant who came to this country from Croatia in 1998 when he was 9 or 10, according to the New York Times. The article said:


    Police investigators said they still did not know what made the killer...drive
    to the Trolley Square mall just before 7 p.m. and open fire. Mr. Talovic worked
    a regular day's shift until 5 p.m. at a company that supplies uniforms to
    businesses, his boss said. Then he drove to the mall, strapped on a bandoleer of
    shotgun shells and a backpack full of handgun ammunition and killed five
    people...

    The key statement above is that no one yet knows the motive behind the shooting. Yet, there are some who are absolutely certain it was a terrorist attack. Why? Sulejman Talovic was a Muslim.

    It's absolutely amazing: if the shooter was of any other ethnic background, no one would have even entertained the notion of terrorism. Once the criminal is Muslim, however, the motivation magically becomes an act of "jihad." Never mind that, according to local Muslims in Salt Lake City, Talovic did not attend any of the area mosques on a regular basis. That does not necessarily mean that he could not have been a terrorist. Still, by the mere fact that he was Muslim, he automatically becomes a "jihadist" in the minds of some.

    Take these angry letters sent to the Deseret Morning News, a local newspaper:



    "Why dont (sic) you guys just come out and say this was a terrorist attack
    because he was MUSLIM."

    "There is no doubt in my mind that this young
    man was carrying out Islamic jihad."

    "Why is it that when I heard about
    a mall shotting (sic) I thought — Muslim? Sure enough. Are you people in Utah
    that clueless?"

    "He was a Muslim terrorist and you know it you
    deceitful, cowardly liar."


    What shocks me about this last letter is the writer had an "M.D., Ph.D." after his name. I would have thought that he, of all people, should have known better. Why could not the shooter have been simply a deranged teenager? Why does he automatically become a "terrorist" simply because of his Muslim background?

    What if this Sulejman Talovic had underwent a horrific experience during the Bosnian civil war which left him emotionally and psychologically scarred for life? What if he finally snapped under the tremendous pressure of that experience and went on his rampage? Perhaps he witnessed the murder of a close friend or family member. Perhaps he witnessed the rape of a close family member. (Remember, the Serbs systematically raped HUNDREDS of thousands of Muslim women during the Bosnian war.) Maybe he suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.

    There could be a number of reasons why this person did what he did. Yet, simply because he is a Muslim, poof!...he becomes a terrorist. Why did no one call Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine High School shooters, terrorists? Why didn't anyone call Jeffrey Weise, the shooter at Red Lake High School in March 2005, a terrorist? There have, in fact, been a number of school shootings in 2006 and even 2007. Why weren't any of those perpetrators called terrorists?

    It's simple, really. They were not Muslim.

    Why wasn't Buford O. Furrow Jr., the man who opened fire in a Los Angeles Jewish Community Center in 1999, called a terrorist? Again, he was not a Muslim. But Hesham Mohamed Hedayet, the man who opened fire at an El Al ticket counter at the Los Angeles International Airport in July 2002, was called a terrorist...at least until the motive was discovered to be financial difficulty rather than a "violent jihad against Jews."

    Time and again, whenever a Muslim commits a crime, it is automatically assumed to be an act of terrorism. This is because the association between Islam and terrorism has been so entrenched in the minds of so many. Now, I admit, this does not come out of a vacuum. There is indeed a group of Muslims which commits acts of terrorism and claim to do so in the name of Islam. But, this does not mean that every single time a Muslim commits a crime, his or her motivation is "jihad against the West."

    Again, if the shooter in Salt Lake City was named "John Smith," the word "terrorism" would not even come into the picture. But since the shooter's name was Sulejman, a Muslim name, everyone begins to wonder, I suspect, whether he was a "jihadi" out for "infidel blood." This is wrong. I commend the Deseret Morning News for not mentioning the religion of Sulejman Talovic.

    No one mentioned the religion of Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Jeffrey Weise, or Buford Furrow Jr. in relation to their crimes. The same should be for Sulejman Talovic. Unless the facts bear otherwise, Mr. Talovic is just another criminal who has committed a terrible act of violence in our country. The fact that he is Muslim is absolutely irrelevant.

  • #2
    Not a whole lot to add except that I'm glad that someone is saying something.

    Once again, an entire group of people is maligned because of religion.

    and before anyone wants to argue and say that "most terrorists are muslim", let's remember the IRA.

    Jenn

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not sure that those of you who have defined yourselves as the religious right have experienced the complete and utter criminalization of your religious preferences.

      The point was if that Bosnian boy had been ANY other religion, he'd be a poor boy who had probably witnessed unspeakable acts of horror in his life (not that it excuses or condones offing a mall full of people). But because he was Muslim he's automatically a terrorist.

      Jenn

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll stay out of the heat but mention that I was pissed the following morning when headlines started reading "Utah shooter is survivor of Bosnian civil war, etc" NO F*IN EXCUSE. I know that he must have witnessed horrifying events but that in no f*ing way excuses shooting innocent people in a mall.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheFairQueen
          I'll stay out of the heat but mention that I was pissed the following morning when headlines started reading "Utah shooter is survivor of Bosnian civil war, etc" NO F*IN EXCUSE. I know that he must have witnessed horrifying events but that in no f*ing way excuses shooting innocent people in a mall.
          I don't think ANYBODY is implying it's an excuse to off people...rather offering up a theory as to the why it may have occurred...PTSD has reared it's ugly head with a lot of our brave men & women who served and witnessed all kinds of horrors...whenever I read the stories of retuening combat soldiers killing their wives I don't think of it as an excuse , because ther never is one IMO...but a cause as to why the person snapped? yes.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is what the shooter's father thinks:

            http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=900025

            The father of Trolley Square shooter Sulejmen Talovic apologizes over and over for the ordeal. Suljo Talovic says no one who knew his son saw this coming, and he believes someone pushed him to do it.

            Suljo Talovic doesn't know where his son got the guns or how he learned how to use them.

            Suljo Talovic, Father of Shooter: "Somebody got (the guns)…and maybe (they were) training him and tell(ing) him (to), ‘go shoot somebody.'"

            Question: So you think that somebody influenced him maybe to do this?

            Suljo Talovic: "Yeah. I think somebody."

            Talovic says the tragedy is taking a toll on his family.

            Repeatedly, in a lengthy interview with KSL Newsradio, Talovic expressed the sentiment that someone trained and pushed his son to kill. He apologizes for the ordeal, saying it makes him feel horrible, like killing himself.
            According to other news in and around Utah the FBI is helping the local police. Hopefully, if someone did supply this kid with weaponry and warped his mind in some way they'll find him....

            Of course, that in no way excuses his actions - he clearly chose to do these awful, violent acts and he did so, according to reports, calmly and with precise intent. :bummer:

            This is a case of us just not knowing everything at this time - I imagine we'll know a lot more about what happened and the events leading up to this despicable crime in the weeks to come.

            I am very, very glad that everyone I know around there is safe....
            Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
            With fingernails that shine like justice
            And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DCJenn
              Not a whole lot to add except that I'm glad that someone is saying something.

              Once again, an entire group of people is maligned because of religion.

              and before anyone wants to argue and say that "most terrorists are muslim", let's remember the IRA.

              Jenn
              You can darn well bet that if a Mormon had done something like this his religion would be plastered all over the media. And, as a Mormon I can attest to the fact that I routinely hear "interesting" smears about members of my religious faith and my religion as a whole quite often. (I used to get asked all the time growing up how many mothers I had.... ).

              Anyway, whoever else pointed out that there is now a distinct stigmitism associated with being openly Christian is correct. It's more pronounced in some geographic locations than others (ie I encounter it more in the Northeast as opposed to Texas for example) but it's most definitely there. You also see it quite a bit on the internet.
              Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
              With fingernails that shine like justice
              And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pinkpickles
                ...whenever I read the stories of retuening combat soldiers killing their wives I don't think of it as an excuse , because ther never is one IMO...but a cause as to why the person snapped? yes.
                I didn't think that was very common. Are there statistics on post-combat murders committed by members of the military who have served in recent wars (ie Persian Gulf and, now, Iraq along with the many military missions under Clinton)?
                Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
                With fingernails that shine like justice
                And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Crispin's Crispian
                  Having people think that you and other followers of your religion have 12 parents or are the sheep of the "religious right" may hurt but it is NOT THE SAME as having people think that all people of your religion are terrorists. Not the same thing at all.
                  Huh.

                  A bit of a double standard there....

                  Actually, there have been LDS killed and physically abused because of their faith (where I grew up a couple of Mormon missionaries were targeted and killed when I was a child, for example). And, my father encountered open religious discrimination looking for employment.

                  But, I suppose it's all OK 'cause we consider ourselves "Christian".

                  I guess it was also OK for the local churches in my town growing up to instruct their youth to avoid all of the Mormon (LDS) youth they went to school with....

                  You honestly have no clue.
                  Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
                  With fingernails that shine like justice
                  And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Crispin's Crispian
                    Incidents of violence at the hands of returning soldiers towards family members and strangers alike are also increasing stateside; however, statistics on military-involved stateside homicides or suicides are not tracked (surprise) by the Pentagon nor the massively under funded Department of Veterans Affairs (VA).
                    http://ptsdcombat.blogspot.com/2005/...g-us-ptsd.html

                    ETA:

                    http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feat.../index_np.html

                    [quote:26daa]Sticker shock over shell shock

                    The U.S. government is reviewing 72,000 cases in which veterans have been diagnosed with severe post-traumatic stress disorder, claiming that misdiagnosis and fraud have inflated the numbers. Outraged vets say the plan is a callous attempt to cut the costs of an increasingly expensive war.
                    [/quote:26daa]


                    So, I am still curious since this question has not been answered:

                    Are there statistics on post-combat murders committed by members of the military who have served in recent wars (ie Persian Gulf and, now, Iraq along with the many military missions under Clinton)?
                    Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
                    With fingernails that shine like justice
                    And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [quote=Tabula Rasa]
                      Originally posted by "Crispin's Crispian":38602
                      Having people think that you and other followers of your religion have 12 parents or are the sheep of the "religious right" may hurt but it is NOT THE SAME as having people think that all people of your religion are terrorists. Not the same thing at all.
                      Huh.

                      A bit of a double standard there....

                      Actually, there have been LDS killed and physically abused because of their faith (where I grew up a couple of Mormon missionaries were targeted and killed when I was a child, for example). And, my father encountered open religious discrimination looking for employment.

                      But, I suppose it's all OK 'cause we consider ourselves "Christian".

                      I guess it was also OK for the local churches in my town growing up to instruct their youth to avoid all of the Mormon (LDS) youth they went to school with....

                      You honestly have no clue.[/quote:38602]

                      I wanted to added that in the state of Missouri it was LEGAL until 1976 to kill/murder/torture/rape a person of the LDS faith because of an extermination order by Governor Liliburn Boggs in 1838, that is over a 120 years!

                      Now I have not faced racial discrimination to the extent that I have known others who have. Mostly parents of friends would say they couldn't hang out with me any more, or date me because of my religion.

                      Now I have experienced racial discrimination because my family and I are white and my father was stationed at a Marine Corps base in Hawaii. As a kid I was constantly called skinny haoli girl, go back home to your mainland, get off our island, etc. I remember distinctly my family wanting to eat at a restaurant, and we were denied because we were not "da kind en you haoli folk." (Translation for pigeon- You are not our kind, because you are Haoli). My brother, at the time 5 years old, would get beat up DAILY because of his blonde hair, blue eyes, and white skin. My parents decided that the cost of private school was worth my brother's safety. It was better in private school, but you still got the jaunts and jeers from people. Man it gave me a minor glimpse of what the African Americans of the 60s had to endure. I will say not ALL Hawaiians, Philippinos, are like this, I did have some good friends that were open and accepting, however SOME were not as Aloha as others.

                      Regardless of religion, race or background, we are all to an extent prejudgemental of others.
                      Gas, and 4 kids

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yup! I was alive when it was legal to shoot a Mormon on-sight in Missouri. Is it legal to kill a member of any other religious sect in the United States? Has it been as recently as the 70's? Was it legal in, say, 1975 to kill someone because of race anywhere in the US? NOPE! However, it was legal in that year to kill a Mormon.

                        I would also like to point out that accusing Mormons of being "the sheep of the 'religious right" proves my point to some extent. Thanks Crispin's Crispian for acting in EXACTLY the manner to which I was referring!
                        Who uses a machete to cut through red tape
                        With fingernails that shine like justice
                        And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yet, simply because he is a Muslim, poof!...he becomes a terrorist. Why did no one call Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine High School shooters, terrorists?
                          The national media didn't call them terrorists, but I distinctly remember the local news in Colorado calling these two teenage boys terrorists. Their families were shunned from society. (Now I do not condone the boys' actions, and worked with someone who knew their families personally).

                          Just something to think about- really what is a terrorist? I think of anyone regardless of race, religion, or background who uses means of violence to get across an agenda as a terrorist- they are terrorizing people. So yes, I see the IRA as terrorists, teenage shooters shooting up their schools as such, etc. I didn't even know this SLC shooter's identity or background, and first thought was oh great another terrorist. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols- terrorists.
                          Gas, and 4 kids

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tabula Rasa
                            Yup! I was alive when it was legal to shoot a Mormon on-sight in Missouri. Is it legal to kill a member of any other religious sect in the United States? Has it been as recently as the 70's? Was it legal in, say, 1975 to kill someone because of race anywhere in the US? NOPE! However, it was legal in that year to kill a Mormon.

                            I would also like to point out that accusing Mormons of being "the sheep of the 'religious right" proves my point to some extent. Thanks Crispin's Crispian for acting in EXACTLY the manner to which I was referring!
                            To add I know several Mormons who are actually part of the "liberal left" and I know of a prominent member in the Senate who is a liberal and a Mormon.

                            Again, one cannot judge solely on religion, or accuse Mormons of being the "sheep of the 'religious right."
                            Gas, and 4 kids

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tabula Rasa


                              So, I am still curious since this question has not been answered:

                              Are there statistics on post-combat murders committed by members of the military who have served in recent wars (ie Persian Gulf and, now, Iraq along with the many military missions under Clinton)?
                              I don't know about the recent wars but I took an Asian American Studies class in college and there has been quite a few books that have discussed with statistics the increase of violence against Asians in the U.S. by ex-military following the wars with Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. I am sure that the same will be true for these wars. Just as there will probably be a new generation of Amerasians as a result of this war, who will experience the same difficulties that Amerasians from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and the Philipines still face today in and outside of the U.S.

                              Comment

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