Opting Out of College for a Blue-Collar Life

DH & I heard this on NPR this morning. We both think the pull for education is over blown. If say someone becomes a teacher and pays $10,000 a year for college, and needs a masters degree (many states require one, eventually) = $50,000 of debt out of pocket, that's quite a chunk of debt for someone with a starting pay of $32,266 (averagely). So say this teacher is single, has to pay the debt in full themselves, just how long will it take them to pay it, and then get ahead finacially? Let's put this in perspective to a construction working going into the union, who does have to pay dues and 4 years work in apprenticeship, then is a journeyman making $25 an hour at the age of 22 (if working straight from high school) - that's good money. We have several friends who did blue collar skilled carpentry jobs, and have made $60,000 at 22... and have no educational debt, not bad huh? Of course they deal with lay offs, being forced to be financially smart at 22 to put money away, to keep an edge for when their pay is capped, but seriously it's not a bad life, and one we need people to have.

I'm with Lily if someone doesn't want to be ambitious, degree or not, they won't be. But if someone is they can get ahead with smart thinking and planning. My dad has a very profitable business of his own that is 17+s years strong , travels internationally every year which has forced him to be very business savvy to keep up with how the business industry works in other countries, and never took a college class. Is this the norm, no, but does it happen yes. It's all about drive, and smart business practices.

[Sheherezade]

What? I thought these were the jobs Americans didn't want to do! :>

I knew a couple in Philly that were both complete Gen X slackers. Well-educated, but worked in blue collar gigs instead. I didn't really understand it, but it was their choice. Now....I think I'm more flexible. I believe that college is a good option for many, but it isn't impossible to succeed without it. It's harder.....but not impossible.

I think for my children, I will give them the option of college and present it as a v. good way to start on many, many career paths. I *hope* they approach college as a good way to get a start in a career path. I *hope* they have some ideas before they start....and firm them up soon after entering. I think too many people enter college with no clue and approach it as "Senior senior high school". That's not something you should do with a 20K a year bill.

I'd also back my kids if they wanted to start a business or go to school part time while working.

I don't know why we have to be so all-or-none about everything. College is a good choice for many, but if we make it "mandatory" it may just slide downhill like high school did when it became "mandatory". I can't believe how much less is taught today than when my gradfather paid for private high school education ......that was like college then!

I think for my children, I will give them the option of college and present it as a v. good way to start on many, many career paths. I *hope* they approach college as a good way to get a start in a career path. I *hope* they have some ideas before they start....and firm them up soon after entering. I think too many people enter college with no clue and approach it as "Senior senior high school". That's not something you should do with a 20K a year bill.

I like this approach. I didn't go b/c of a combination of lack of planning, lack of interest (senior-senior high school on MY dime? no thanks!), and my mother's health issues, and was employed quite successfully via my own hard work and smarts. A degree is not a guarantee of anything ... BUT ... it IS a somewhat-abstract requirement put forth by many employers - just as a high school diploma used to be. You can't work at Enterprise Rent-A-Car w/o a degree. I don't think encouraging kids to not go to college is a good idea.

I totally agree with Lily - driven & ambitious people will advance - piece of paper in hand or not.

[kaseymarie]

I am all about getting as much education as I can. I think it is fine for people not to go to college, but would I tell my children it is okay not to go to college....probaby not. The sad fact is even if you get a college degree you may still be working in a grocery store or have a job within your field that can barely pay the bills. For some people, it may be better to not go to school.

If say someone becomes a teacher and pays $10,000 a year for college, and needs a masters degree (many states require one, eventually) = $50,000 of debt out of pocket, that's quite a chunk of debt for someone with a starting pay of $32,266 (averagely). So say this teacher is single, has to pay the debt in full themselves, just how long will it take them to pay it, and then get ahead finacially?

I agree, but at least doing teaching is pretty much leading you to a job for life if you want it. What about people getting into equal debt for more general, non career specific, degrees? (i know there was already a recent debate about the value of an arts degree).
I have a B.Sc., and did well, but I had to get a Masters degree to find a job in my field. I dont "need" the M.Sc. to do my job, I just needed it to get the job. Degrees are becoming de-valued because so many more people go to college now.
It bothers me that people's success is measured by how much education they have, and there is so much pressure to go to college.
Financially too, as others have pointed out, you could be much better off as a blue collar worker, when the economy is going well anyway.
Honestly, I will encourage my children to follow their dreams, whether that is working on cars or going to college.

[Rapunzel]

My dad teaches HVAC and a couple of other things (but, primarily air conditioning installation/repair) at a "technical" school. You wouldn't believe what an a/c repairman makes - especially in Texas!! He knows a number of his students that are pulling in close to six figures with little overhead (because they are primarily self-employed with no employees). Not a bad gig. Electricians and plumbers also have the ability to make large amounts of money - definitely enough to qualify as solidly "middle class".

It's a fallacy to believe you must go to college in order to 1)fulfill your goals and 2)make a very good income in life.

Whether you go to college or a trade school (ie the trained blue-collar route) what dictates how well you will do in your career are the decisions you make after your training. You'll find plenty of college-educated people who make diddly (particularly if they are arts majors who statistically bring in low incomes) just as you'll find plenty of blue-collar workers who make diddly. And, you'll find a smaller percentage of college educated people who do well financially and have successful careers just as you'll find a smaller percentage of blue-collar trained workers who do well financially and have successful careers.

You can definitely be trained in a blue-collar career and do as well as your white collar peers (if not better).

[Rapunzel]

Government economists expect jobs for electricians to grow as fast as the average for all careers through 2014. Growth in new construction means that electricians will be needed to outfit those buildings. There’s also more for electricians to do since new buildings tend to be prewired for high-tech equipment such as computers....The average yearly salary for electricians in 2005 was $45,630, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

http://www.collegeboard.com


The average U.S. income according to the U.S. Census for 2002 and 2003?

$43,318


The average electrician is making above the national average for income.


The average salary for a liberal arts major?

$30, 828


The average electrician is making waaaay more than the average liberal arts major college grad.


Here are some more average salaries:

Engineering Majors $51,053
Computer Sciences Majors $49,585
Business Majors $42,964
Health Sciences Majors $40,676
Sciences Majors $39,187
Communications Majors $31,517
Liberal Arts (Humanities & Social Sciences) Majors $30,828
Agriculture & Natural Resources Majors $30,462
Education Majors $29,332

http://www.jobweb.com/resources/library ... _290_1.htm


The average yearly salary for plumbers in 2005 was $44,850, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

http://www.collegeboard.com/csearch/maj ... 04058.html


The U.S. Department of Labor estimates that the average yearly salary in 2005 for HVACR technicians was $38,770.

(same site)


It also depends on what your college degree is. As you can see a liberal arts degree is worth quite a bit less than a degree at a technical school.

Obviously, there are the "breakout" cases of technical professionals making scads of money. And, there are also college degrees that are more likely to earn you a higher income than the U.S. average. But, it is so subjective....

[SuzySunshine]

As someone who never figured out what she wanted to be when she grew up I will encourage my children to follow their dreams and I will encourage them to start looking seriously at careers in high school and during early college summers.

I have a B.S. and an MBA but I still move from one "ok" job to another because I never really found anything I love.

I have several cousins who won't go to college and most of them are perfectly happy with what they do. One is an electrician apprentice and one is working in wood woorking, like ornate work for expensive homes. Both do very well and their families are comfortable and happy. I have another cousin who loves cars and is getting a technical degree for something related. Now could that cousin have gone to college and become an engineer, sure - but he loves what he does.

I hope my kids will go to college but its more important to me for them to love what they do everyday.

[Vishenka69]

I agree that college degress are not for everyone. My FIL works for the MTA and makes almost as much as DH and I put together. Some people are good with their hands and some with their heads. If everyone went to college, who'd build our houses and rewired them?

Deep down I would freak out if my kids didn't want to go to college.

Annie - that is probably a true statement for almost all of us. I know I will try everything possible for them to go to college (and I know dh would blow a gasket), and it would be very, very hard for me if they chose not to. And remember - I didn't go.

You want the best in life for your kids. College is not the only way to get it, but it sure can be one heck of a stepping stone in the right direction.

[DCJenn]

My ex made 60k+ as a firefighter 14 years ago. He eventually got an AA degree in Fire Science but only because he wanted to- he was already a fire fighter at the time.

He is eligible to retire now, and if he has, he'll get 50% of his last salary. At age 42. Not like he can't get another job. Oh, but his wife's family run a funeral home. Let's talk BANK here, shall we?

Jenn

PS- AA degree in mortuary science. That's where the $ is.

[Sheherezade]

I overheard a fireman giving a woman career advice for her teenage son. He told her he should get training and certification to be a paramedic no matter what path he decided to take -- because he could be employed anywhere. It honestly seemed like good advice. If my kid was floundering, I might give it to them. :> Paramedics are on a good road to lots of things - and employable in most markets. It would be a nice bit of training to have handy.

[madeintaiwan]

On the same note with being a firefighter or paramedic. Nurses are making a good living nowadays too.. or at least in CA they do. My MIL is a PICU nurse manager at CHLA and she says that her nurses make 60-70k 2 years out and 90-100k after 6 years and that's not including over time and I am pretty sure they only work 3 or 4 shifts a week. They also get crazy bonuses for signing on (cash and housing allowances for the first 3-6 months, totalling over 20k). Not bad for 2 years of school. And I know the cost of living is high in CA but 60-100k is good, especially for a single person. We lived a decent life in Davis with DS on 32k. Wouldn't want to live like that forever, but despite high COL anything over 60k is pretty good in most places in CA (maybe not Palo Alto and the like).

I know many people who make good money without a degree, but they tend to work longer hours and have pretty stressful/unsecure jobs. I know that college isn't for everyone. The world really wouldn't "work" if it was. I really want my kids to go to college for the experience. College was such a great time for me (even though I worked full time and a had a kid). I met really great people, took classes from some really great professors, and learned to view the world from different "lenses." I don't know if I would be the person that I am today had I not gone to college; emotionally, intellectually, spiritually. If school isn't for my kids, nothing I can do about that. But we feel that our kids can become whoever they want to be after they go to college. We know too many people who had the opportunity to go and didn't or didn't finish and regret it big time now. They hear the stories and feel like the missed out, but mostly there are quite a few jobs that don't really need a degree to be able to perform the duties but a degree is still required nonetheless. We figure that we'll be able to pay for college so debt (with exception to graduate school, if they chose to go they can pay for it themselves-- that's my step g'pa philosophy) shouldn't be an issue. Maybe we won't, but all of the doctors (and dentists) we know have put all of their kids through college without financial strain. One of them put 6 kids through college.

Most of DH's family works in construction (from the bottom to foremans, general contractors and civil engineers). However, his aunt who is a civil engineer makes the most money but I am sure it more has to do with the huge jobs she has landed (resorts in laguna and prisons). Anyhow, without a doubt you can make a great living without a degree and I agree that college isn't everyone's "thing." But I hope that my kids will go for the experience.

[SuzySunshine]

One note on the nurses Davita, most nurses entering the workforce these days are BSN's. There are a lot of older nurses that do not have BSN's, but it is very hard to get into a good position without a BSN or at least that is what my sister tells me, she is currently working on her Masters.

[madeintaiwan]

One note on the nurses Davita, most nurses entering the workforce these days are BSN's. There are a lot of older nurses that do not have BSN's, but it is very hard to get into a good position without a BSN or at least that is what my sister tells me, she is currently working on her Masters.

I think it depends on where you are. I have 4 cousins (in CA) who have BAs in something else who are going to school to get an AA in nursing just so they can get out there and make that money. My MIL starting out with an AA and got her BSN a few years ago but only bc it is required for management. She says management has its perks, 9-5. But it is salary and there are quite a few nurses in her unit without BSNs who make more $$ than she does. DH's stepsister is a nurse practitioner (at the same hospital as MIL) and again its all about supervising and having duties that aren't on the floor. Lots of conferences, trainings, and lecturing. Lots of covering shifts, taking call, and being in charge when they have big cases (like the twins they separated last year). And not nec more pay.